Toby Tabs

[Spittybug]

Misty at Delorean NW tells me they haven't had these for a while. I'm curious, when they did, how much did they sell them for? I heard of some insane number on Ebay for a used set and couldn't believe it...... Were they worth it?

[DavidProehl]

Toby Tabs were supposedly awesome (I don't have them), but it would be hard to justify the prices they were going for a couple years ago after they went out of stock.

DMCMW now sells an equivalent bolt, so there is now no need to pay obscene money for them.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?87...at-DMC-Midwest

[rddmc]

Misty at Delorean NW tells me they haven't had these for a while. I'm curious, when they did, how much did they sell them for? I heard of some insane number on Ebay for a used set and couldn't believe it...... Were they worth it?

I bought a set of Toby TABs 03/03/03 from Darryl Tinnerstet, Speciality Automotive for $66. I did not get them installed until I had DMC Midwest add the Stage 1 engine upgrade 06/09/10. I believe the TABs were an excellent upgrade to the car. I also am pleased with Stage 1 which was ceramic coated with the exception of the exhaust tips. The exhaust still is shiny and new looking after five years.

I would be interested to know if anyone else waited longer to get the Toby TABS installed.

Rod
10921

[vps3922]

I talked a while ago to the man himself about these TABs. Toby worked for a local, and very famous, airplane builder in Seattle. He was in charge of aquiring the materials to build these planes and he was in contact with a supplier, who was manufacturing the bolts that hold the engines on their airplane's wings. Thye needed to be of a specific strength and fulfil incredible stress tests.

He had a contact at this supplier and got him to produce a side order of a few hundred of TABs with the same material and specs as the bolts for the airplane engine bolts. They did and they became the famous Toby's TABs. It is unlikely that they ever deform and if they do than I do not want to see the car around it. They have been known of the last TABs you ever replace on the car and so far this is true.

Well, Toby is not working for this local company anymore and his contact is also not working for the bolt supplier anymore, so the source is not available anymore.

I am lucky that I was able to aquire a set of them but I have not yet installed them as it quite labour intensive on an automatic D due to the small space to operate on the driver's side.

[DMCMW Dave]

. It is unlikely that they ever deform and if they do than I do not want to see the car around it. .

They will bend if the shims fall out of the installation. I've seen it. The big advantages to them are that they would be darn near impossible to break, and they won't rust as Inconel is a variant of stainless.

The failure on the "standard" bolts is that the plating on the outside can get nicked by the shims. Once this happens water can get to the steel and the steel starts rusting, which causes a weak spot in the bolt. I've had a couple of broken TABs examined by fastener guys, and it's always apparent that the break started with a rust spot and then migrated as the bolt flexed. The break always looks like "tree rings" with most of the "rings" shiny except for the original rust spot. This indicates to me that the rust starts but the bolt holds up for a while. Once it starts flexing and cracking the rest of the break happens pretty quickly. They can also bend. Once they are rusty in any way they should be replaced.

[Jonathan]

They will bend if the shims fall out of the installation. I've seen it. The big advantages to them are that they would be darn near impossible to break, and they won't rust as Inconel is a variant of stainless.

The failure on the "standard" bolts is that the plating on the outside can get nicked by the shims. Once this happens water can get to the steel and the steel starts rusting, which causes a weak spot in the bolt. I've had a couple of broken TABs examined by fastener guys, and it's always apparent that the break started with a rust spot and then migrated as the bolt flexed. The break always looks like "tree rings" with most of the "rings" shiny except for the original rust spot. This indicates to me that the rust starts but the bolt holds up for a while. Once it starts flexing and cracking the rest of the break happens pretty quickly. They can also bend. Once they are rusty in any way they should be replaced.

Dave, if you have a few minutes at the open house, maybe this is something you could do a show and tell on? More the replacement aspect that is, especially on an automatic. Not asking for a demonstration of how to replace them, just to chat about it from under a car looking up at the job.

I have a replacement set of TABs (original, not Toby's and not Inconcel either) but haven't put them in yet for the same reasons as Volker mentioned (minimal space to work with).

[dmc6960]

It is unlikely that they ever deform and if they do than I do not want to see the car around it.

They will bend if the shims fall out of the installation. I've seen it. The big advantages to them are that they would be darn near impossible to break, and they won't rust as Inconel is a variant of stainless.

That would be me. When I installed them I purchased a whole set of new hardware for the entire trailing arm joint. New bushings, new washers, new shims. Well, one of the washers with that was defective and crushed. This caused the joint to loosen, the shims to fall, and the Toby TAB to bend. I sent it back to Toby for a full metallurgical analysis. I dont remember the numbers but the remaining strength on it was so high it still wouldn't have ever completely broke.

[David T]

That would be me. When I installed them I purchased a whole set of new hardware for the entire trailing arm joint. New bushings, new washers, new shims. Well, one of the washers with that was defective and crushed. This caused the joint to loosen, the shims to fall, and the Toby TAB to bend. I sent it back to Toby for a full metallurgical analysis. I dont remember the numbers but the remaining strength on it was so high it still wouldn't have ever completely broke.

The weak link to the whole joint is the metal tube in the bushing. If you overtighten the bolt you crush the tube and now it can't maintain the clamping pressure allowing the shims to fall out. Once the bolt is no longer under tension it is subject to bending stresses. There is a very narrow margin between the force necessary to crush the tube and the minimum torque to have the bolt stretch enough so it doesn't feel the bending stresses. The fact that you see bent bolts is evidence that it is soft enough to bend and not fail catastrophically. There is a fine balance between hardness and ductility. All of this is one reason people have tried a Heim joint. The motion of the joint is complex. In addition to up and down it also rotates as it moves. The rubber is supposed to allow for that too. Both TAB's should be inspected annually. Write the # of shims in each joint on the frame with marker.