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Thread: Another Beverley Hills Car Club find....

  1. #101
    Senior Member Dangermouse's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Atlanta OTP GA

    Posts:    6,959

    My VIN:    2743

    Club(s):   (SEDOC) (DCH) (DCUK) (DOC-UK)

    10524 has escaped



    photo courtesy of Alex Tietz on FB
    Attached Images
    Dermot
    VIN 2743, B/A, Frame 2227, engine 2320

    I don't always drive cars, but when I do, I prefer DeLoreans

    http://www.will-to-live.org

    No-one is to stone anyone, even, and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say "carburetor"

  2. #102
    Certified Stainless!! Chris Burns's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Fernandina Beach Fl

    Posts:    1,799

    My VIN:    Getting closer and closer...

    Club(s):   (DCF)


  3. #103
    Senior Member
    Join Date:  Mar 2014

    Location:  Lansing, MI

    Posts:    361

    My VIN:    04194: 5-Speed, Black Int, 79 Peugeot 604 Manifold, 05052: 5-Speed, Gray Int, 78 Peugeot 604 manifol

    The owner of this vehicle should look into the procedure in Florida for obtaining a rebuilt title. Terms, costs and inspection requirements differ depending on the State, but by no means should an otherwise restorable, mostly complete car be parted out simply because of a title status.
    Andrew
    4194 Since 7/98
    5052 Since 7/14

    1972 Buick Riviera
    1974 Bricklin SV-1 177
    1982 AMC Eagle SX/4 (4.2 I6, 4 Speed)
    1983 Pontiac Trans Am (Knight Rider Conversion in progress)
    1985 Oldsmobile Toronado (daily driver)

    Solex carb and antenna television guru.

    "My carbon footprint is bigger than yours!" :-)

  4. #104
    Senior Member Dangermouse's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Atlanta OTP GA

    Posts:    6,959

    My VIN:    2743

    Club(s):   (SEDOC) (DCH) (DCUK) (DOC-UK)

    The original BHCC ad stated that the car had a "salvage" title. Is that dramatically different from the "dismantled" title the new owner is complaining about?

    is "Dismantled" even a valid legal term?
    Last edited by Dangermouse; 08-29-2017 at 03:03 PM.
    Dermot
    VIN 2743, B/A, Frame 2227, engine 2320

    I don't always drive cars, but when I do, I prefer DeLoreans

    http://www.will-to-live.org

    No-one is to stone anyone, even, and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say "carburetor"

  5. #105
    Junior Member
    Join Date:  Jun 2017

    Location:  Doral, FL

    Posts:    2

    My VIN:    4543

    That was me, can't believe anyone actually saw my post on the directory site. Ive learned this all in the past week or so and could really use some help if anyone has been in this situation before.
    The term dismantle legally means that the owner turned over his registration and title, and the car was supposed to have been junked/destroyed/sold for parts. I don't think it should have been sold as a "highly desireable project car." And legally, I don't think they should have sold it at all.
    Its super convoluted trying to find laws between 3 different states and what any of it means. Apparently there's a national database that tracks these salvage vehicles now. So, it's not as easy as it once was to sort of slip things in because it was worded oddly in another state. But, in Florida, my only option is an ASPT car( assembled from parts), I will never be able to title/register this car under its original vin...in any state. Or I can try and sell it outside the US.

    I don't know why the original title was ever salvaged or considered dismantled. I've tried getting in touch with the owner on the title, but he passed a few years ago. The guy in between apparently has Parkinson's disease and just had a stroke, so he can't help much either.
    Last edited by Mike0173; 08-29-2017 at 04:22 PM.

  6. #106
    Delorean Guru
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Northern NJ

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    My VIN:    10757

    Club(s):   (DMA)

    While it may be the seller did not fully disclose, the buyer also has a duty to determine just what he is buying. The buyer should have seen the Title and realized it was not "clean" BEFORE buying the car. If he still wanted to go through with the deal the buyer should have ascertained the exact status of it in regards to making the car go again. It will be difficult, if not impossible now to go back to the seller. The buyer's best option is to go the DMV in his State and inquire as to what procedure there is (if any) to get the car back on the road. There are also 3rd parties that offer to do this, often in a nearby State, with laxer rules. In the meantime the buyer should not spend any money or time on the car till he knows what can be done. I would hope the buyer has a legitimate Bill of Sale so he can prove legal ownership. If not, the car may be taken from him and returned to the last lawful owner. If that happens he may then have recourse to the seller. These situations never turn out well and often cost a lot to resolve. It also is often complicated by the different rules in different States. This is one area where the term "Buyer Beware" is so true. What you have really bought is a pile of parts that looks like a car. That piece of paper (the Title) is SO important!
    Last edited by David T; 08-29-2017 at 06:25 PM.
    David Teitelbaum

  7. #107
    Not really banned Michael's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Posts:    3,022

    There has never been a car easier to "re vin" than a DeLorean. There are only 2 places the vin is stamped, both easily changed as the frame numbers, engine numbers, etc. were never correlated with the actual vin.
    All you need to do is buy a heap that has an intact title and vin plates (both of them) and swap them out. Might be a little more expensive than getting your title repaired but a damn sight easier and quicker and no black marks on your title.

    You didn't hear that from me.

  8. #108
    Senior Member DMCVegas's Avatar
    Join Date:  Oct 2011

    Location:  Las Vegas

    Posts:    2,406

    My VIN:    6585

    Club(s):   (DOA) (DCUK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    There has never been a car easier to "re vin" than a DeLorean.
    That ain't no lie.

    http://touchngo.com/ap/html/ap-1178.htm

    I'll get back to that case in a moment here.

    Rules slightly vary from state to state, as do especially HOW the states execute these rules. But here is the general, over all rule of thumb for vehicle titles:

    Salvage Title
    This is where things get confusing because rules/brandings vary from state to state. First, a Salvage Title can NOT be used to register a vehicle! A salvage title means that a vehicle has been in a major accident, is a loss, and usually also meets the following criteria:
    1. Flood Damaged.
    2. Fire Damaged.
    3. 65% or more of the vehicle is damaged.


    As stated, Salvage means that the vehicle has encountered such catastrophic damage that it cannot be safely driven on the street. Hence why the vehicle cannot be registered.

    Again, it's a rule of thumb, and intricacies can vary by state. But that is the short & long of it. HOWEVER, in some states such as Nevada, if the vehicle is over 10 years old, it can get an exemption to avoid a Salvage title which results in future branding. Speaking of which...

    Rebuilt Title/Branding
    In many cases, it is possible to repair a Salvage Vehicle to get it back onto the road. An independent garage can utilize cheaper used parts and less expensive labor to more affordably repair a vehicle than an insurance company. Once repaired the vehicle is inspected by the state. If the vehicle is declared safe, the Salvage Title will then be exchanged back to a regular Vehicle Title to allow said vehicle to be registered.

    The only catch is that the Title gets a branding on it that indicates the vehicle is "Rebuilt". Which may mean the full word "Rebuilt", or it may simply be an "R", or could even be some other weird combination of letters/numbers that isn't decipherable by another state. That's where "Title Washing" comes into play. Take a rebuilt title, register the vehicle in another state that doesn't recognize the weird code and issues a clean title without the branding, and you've washed the car of it's previous history. Likewise some people have done this with kit cars to get the make/model changed as well. Same VIN, but that's how title goes from saying Pontiac Fiero to becoming a Ferrari 308.

    Also, as stated some older vehicles may get an exemption to Salvage titles if they're only missing a few pieces and will be restored. That avoids the Rebuilt branding altogether.

    Non-Repairable Title
    If a Salvage vehicle has been picked clean at a junkyard, or was destroyed by fire, then it will be issued a non-rebuildable title or certificate. Once a vehicle gets that, it's over. It can never be rebuilt or registered. It's only good for recycling. Although it does have a massive value to many corporations as a "Smog Credit".


    Assigned VIN numbers
    In a nutshell, if you construct your own homebrew trailer, or even vehicle which some states do allow, OR the VIN number on a factory-built vehicle was knowingly tampered with, the state usually declares all bets off, and then assigns the vehicle it's own VIN number. Just like in the story above. Even if you can reasonably deduct the original VIN, the DMV won't risk it, and will just assign a fresh VIN. Which just like a Rebuilt title is intended to notify all future buyers that the vehicle isn't what it seems.

    But in any case, be aware that Slang Terms are not definitive for legal terms. And that if you buy a car with a salvage title, you can't register it right away. You can rebuild it and get it titled, but it will be branded and will certainly have a diminished value. All things you should be aware of before going in on any vehicle purchase.
    Robert

    Board Member, DeLorean Owners Association



    Recording Secretary

  9. #109
    Junior Member
    Join Date:  Jun 2017

    Location:  Doral, FL

    Posts:    2

    My VIN:    4543

    Thanks, that is all correct and what I had expected when buying this car. I wanted a project and I planned to spend several years working on it. If it were that straight forward, I wouldn't have any issue.

    Where the problem arose is with the Dismantled label. Its very easy to google up the straight salvage title and figure out what it takes....which admittedly is what I did before buying this car. But, dismantled titles take it one step further and prevents one from ever getting a rebuilt title. There isnt much info out there on the dismantled label, which i think is a valid reason for our discussion here.
    I would really have liked to keep things original, especially the title (if I do ever sell it). But now my only option is a special constructed/assembled from parts/kit car title...which will kill any value I imagine. Or I sell it now and disclose what I know now...and get screwed either way.

  10. #110
    Delorean Guru
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Northern NJ

    Posts:    6,199

    My VIN:    10757

    Club(s):   (DMA)

    Here in new Jersey you can have the car reinspected through a special procedure that may or may not get you back a legit Title. All of the work that you may have to do is at your full risk if they inspect and deny your application. They would remove the "Salvage" and reinstate your original Title if they are satisfied with your work. There is also a rather large fee involved no matter if you get the Title fixed or not. All of this is to discourage people from buying a cheap salvage vehicle and trying to sell it for a profit. It is primarily meant to stop people from buying a flood car in, say Texas, cheap, taking it to New Jersey, clean it up a little, and then trying to sell it for full retail. Expect to see this happen in the coming months anyway. Just imagine all of the car dealer's lots full of new and used cars under water in Texas. And all of the cars that insurance companies will be buying and then reselling at auctions. This has happened in the past and will happen again.
    David Teitelbaum

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