Timing and Tweedy Tweedy

[Shark Pilot]

Yeah that's a weird post. Now that I have your attention, I need to know if there is an instruction available on how to change the timing on a DMC. Can't find anything on the forum. Also need suggested brand of timing light since there are like 15 brands out there. Why? I have Isky cams that are not sitting in their optimal position. They are set to 14 degrees instead of about 32. Recently went into the shop and the timing was adjusted. I need to adjust it back because my car is now REALLY SLOOOOOOOOW.

On the RIGHT SIDE of my car when travelling at any speed above 20 mph there is this obnoxious TWEEDY TWEEDY TWEEDY!!!! sound coming off one of the right side wheels. It extinguishes when brakes are applied. This is consistent. Also doesn't seem to show in rain, but the car has seen rain twice in 16K so maybe that's not a relevant point. Calipur? Pads? Bearing?

Can anyone help with either of these?

[David T]

Yeah that's a weird post. Now that I have your attention, I need to know if there is an instruction available on how to change the timing on a DMC. Can't find anything on the forum. Also need suggested brand of timing light since there are like 15 brands out there. Why? I have Isky cams that are not sitting in their optimal position. They are set to 14 degrees instead of about 32. Recently went into the shop and the timing was adjusted. I need to adjust it back because my car is now REALLY SLOOOOOOOOW.

On the RIGHT SIDE of my car when travelling at any speed above 20 mph there is this obnoxious TWEEDY TWEEDY TWEEDY!!!! sound coming off one of the right side wheels. It extinguishes when brakes are applied. This is consistent. Also doesn't seem to show in rain, but the car has seen rain twice in 16K so maybe that's not a relevant point. Calipur? Pads? Bearing?

Can anyone help with either of these?

In a car's motor there is several things that get "timed". The cams get "timed" (degreed), and the distributor gets "timed" , just what are you asking. It sounds like the cams need to be set. They should have come with a card indicating how they are supposed to be "degreed" in. For that you need a dial indicator and a timing wheel. To set the ignition timing you use a timing light. Typically that is set to the stock specs but if you have a special (different) cam then you have to set it by experimentation. Any timing light that works will do, some are fancier and have more features than others. As for the brakes, you should take the wheel off and see what is going on. Probably a sticking piston. When was the last time the brakes were flushed?

[vps3922]

On the RIGHT SIDE of my car when travelling at any speed above 20 mph there is this obnoxious TWEEDY TWEEDY TWEEDY!!!! sound coming off one of the right side wheels. It extinguishes when brakes are applied. This is consistent. Also doesn't seem to show in rain, but the car has seen rain twice in 16K so maybe that's not a relevant point. Calipur? Pads? Bearing?

Can anyone help with either of these?

I had the "Tweedy, Tweedy" and it drove me nuts. I replaced the wheel bearings and rebuild the calipers. I put gear oil into the angle drive as instructed by Toby Peterson from DMCNW. It still came back and got worse. Replacing the wheel bearings was actually a good thing because they were shot. And rebuilding the breaks as well, where I found out that my rear calipers had been seized since I bought the car and beyond. Now everything worked and it still came back.
I told my friend about it, who is my goto guy for getting a lift for the D and my VW Westy camper van and he said that he had the same on his and his wives vanagon before. He said that it could be that the break pads start to vibrate while driving and that the frequency gets them to create this "Tweedy" noise, which really takes the wow factor of these cars if you drive by. And it goes away when you break. IN my case it stayed away for about 2-5 seconds to then come back.
He asked me if the break pedal wobbles when I break, which would be an indication of the discs being warped (you would have to machine the disksor get new ones), but it doesn't.
He said, if this is not happening, that you can apply "Anti Squeel Grease" (high temp thick grease...probably silicon based) on the rear of the break pads (not front!!!) and it will stop it from happening. You have to remove the break pads, of course. I did it and the "Tweedy, Tweedy" is gone. me 1 vs. D 0!

Good luck!

[DMC5180]

Front caliper anti-rattle clips and anti-squeal shims or grease.

What ever brand timing light you get, make sure it has an inductive pickup clamp.

[Shark Pilot]

The brakes were flushed recently because I had a brake booster go bad (and leak all over the lower cover corroding the crap out of it). The cams are what I'm looking to reset and I do have a degree sheet for this (Isky sent a comprehensive sheet about it). I have to speak with Rob. He's the one who set the timing back and I don't know if he did it through the ignition or through the dial indicator or not.

As far as the brakes go I think I'll try the high temp brake grease first. That's a great idea! Also thanks so much for the story on that. Definitely bolsters the argument for the grease. I'm sure it's something simple because the discs have already been cut once (by Rob actually) and that took away the massive brake vibes I was having. Still the pad vibe theory makes sense because it goes away when the brakes are applied.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

I brought the base timing back from 38 Degrees to about 20 IIRC because stock timing is 13 as many here know. I did this because you were complaining about a rough idle especially when cold and said you had no spec's from the supplier on correct base timing. It seemed like a rather bizarre base timing setting so I brought it back closer to stock. I noticed a low end power dropoff but a vast improvement in idle quality, particularly when cold, so I thought you would approve of the comprmise. When dealing with performance cams there are always trade offs and since the provenance and installation of these cams is respectively murky and substandard at best my honest advice is the stock cams should be put back in.
Pat I don't think you will ever be happy with them because fixing one thing leads to a compromise somewhere else and you are a perfectionist as I'm sure you'll agree. There can be no perfection with this choice of cams nor possibly any other. High performance cams by themselves (Meaning no other major changes) lead to rough idling and a drop in low end power and smoothness to gain top end power. If you lived around the block we could constantly be tweaking and you testing but you don't so that compounds any tuning issues.
Rob

[DMCMW Dave]

It sounds like the cams need to be set. They should have come with a card indicating how they are supposed to be "degreed" in. For that you need a dial indicator and a timing wheel. ?

Not sure how you would "degree" cams on this engine, without the addition of adjustable timing gears. You have to trust that the cam grinder knew what he was doing at the time he did the work.

I suspect you can only adjust the ignition timing, which it sounds is like what Rob did.

[Shark Pilot]

Not sure how you would "degree" cams on this engine, without the addition of adjustable timing gears. You have to trust that the cam grinder knew what he was doing at the time he did the work.

I suspect you can only adjust the ignition timing, which it sounds is like what Rob did.

Indeed this is what Rob did. I'm in touch with him, just wasn't able to reach him at the time of the posting earlier. Rob has been awesome here helping me out with this issue. Turns out, with these Isky (Ed Iskandrian) cams, the car just needs to go fast. I can deal with the low end (30% throttle and less) loping because the car is a rocket above 30% throttle and I get another 4-5mpg out of the engine. I thought ignition timing might be the "problem" so Rob humored me with an advance warning that it might not help. Indeed he made it more "refined," but by no fault of his own the car is slow and mpg sucks now. I stand corrected. The idle was really ok (900rpm consistently), it just stutters a little with low throttle application. That is THIS car's idiosyncrasy and I'm happy to deal with it now knowing exactly what it is. Do I want it a little smoother? Yes, but above 30% throttle it IS smooth a VERY responsive (and fun).

Thanks to those who responded to this posting. I'll keep you posted as to the timing change BACK and to the anti-rattle grease to see if there is a TWEEDY TWEEDY elimination.