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Thread: Falcon wing doors are just as hard to make as gull wings

  1. #1
    Senior Member Timebender's Avatar
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    Falcon wing doors are just as hard to make as gull wings

    Tesla had to cut their falcon wing door maker.

    http://mashable.com/2016/01/20/tesla.../#RfVrKGo7YOq5

  2. #2
    Senior Member DMCVegas's Avatar
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    Actually, "falcon doors" are much more difficult and complicated than Gullwings. They have a hinged area right inside of the beltline to give more clearance because of the height of the vehicle (which leads to a longer door and worse clearance). Leads to much, MUCH more complicated electrics and hydraulics.

    Whereas with the DeLorean, the system consists of nothing more than a spring/torsion bar, 2 hinges, manual latches, and a wearable gas-charged strut for the functional portion.

    The manufacturing portion is just some support frame & impact beams that get welded together and then on to an external door skin. Other than adjusting an extra set of door linkage components that have to also be balanced, a DeLorean Gullwing is only slightly more difficult than a traditional door to manufacture/assemble/install, and it is LIGHTYEARS ahead of this unnecessarily overly complicated Tesla design.

    At first I was kinda bugged by the fact that they called the "Falcon" doors, because Elon Musk hates DeLoreans for some reason, and I thought it was just another snub at us. But now? I'm really glad they called them that. Because for the people like DeLorean and Mercedes that actually KNOW how to properly engineer and execute true Gullwing doors, it's good to let us be disassociated from Tesla.
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    Senior Member DMC5180's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I would use the term "beltline" but rather shoulder. The second hinge is at the outer edge of the roofline above the window.
    When GM created the Aerovette, it had beltline hinges bellow the window.
    I think Elons reference to Falcon wing is because of the Falcons fold there wings inward in a dive.


    Dennis
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    Senior Member DMC5180's Avatar
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    Falcon wing doors are just as hard to make as gull wings

    I went back a re-read your statement " inside the beltline" so yeah I guess that would apply.

    I don't think the extra hinge is anything special beyond a limited motion free hanging hinge point. Their may be a torsional spring that keeps the door bottom favored inward so the door always drops into the lower guides rather then relying on gravity. I would expect the motorized mechanism to be more of a problem though. I pretty sure you can't operate the rear doors without power. Then again, several newer vehicles have power doors. Mini-van side doors, SUV hatches.

    Dennis
    Last edited by DMC5180; 01-24-2016 at 01:10 PM.
    DENNIS

    VIN 5180, Frame 3652, STAGE I, DM-eng Solid State Solutions (RPM Rly, Dm.Lt.Mod., Fan Fail Mod. , FAN Rly, HS.Rly) , HID sealed beam style headlights, SPAX user since 2009, Eibach springs, Mid-State Club Adj. Rear LCA's, DPNW poly-sway bar kit, DMCEU LCA Stabilizer link kit, DMCMW Illuminated door sills, Aussie Illuminated SS Shifter plate, GENUINE MOMO EVO Steering wheel, DELOREANA Extended View Side Mirrors w/ Heaters, DELOREANA LED Door Lights.

  5. #5
    Senior Member mr_maxime's Avatar
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    I've actually seen these in action. They worked when I saw them and the were also easy to replace. They took one off of one car and it fit easily onto the other car. The double hinge is allow for better clearance. There are sensors in the doors to detect for obstacles and adjust how the hinges open to keep them from hitting.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Rich's Avatar
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    Falcon wing doors are harder to make than gull wings

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_maxime View Post
    I've actually seen these in action. They worked when I saw them and the were also easy to replace. They took one off of one car and it fit easily onto the other car. The double hinge is allow for better clearance. There are sensors in the doors to detect for obstacles and adjust how the hinges open to keep them from hitting.
    Have seen them as well.

    This thread's title needs a revision - so I wrote it on this post. These f-wing doors are very complicated what with the external proximity sensors, dual-hinged articulation and power operation. If nothing else it's a 2-part door to begin with. More seals, more parts, more wire ports. Yes, power liftgates and minivan sliders are normal nowadays. But a Model X door, burdened with it safety/convenience devices, control module and multiple mechanisms, is certainly harder to make than a Delorean door was.

    The lawsuit and the production delay attest to this.

    I won't argue about how easy the falcon-wing door replacement may be on a Model X vs a DeLorean, though.

    And just for the record: I like doors that open and close in a couple of seconds on all my cars. Including the D. Get in and drive!
    March '81, 5-speed, black interior

  7. #7
    Senior Member mr_maxime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    And just for the record: I like doors that open and close in a couple of seconds on all my cars. Including the D. Get in and drive!
    Same here, the falcon wing doors dont have the same wow effect. Granted they have some nice features but watching them slowly rise as you hear electric motors whine just doesnt compare to popping the latch and having the door spring up with the woosh of the struts.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    So, what happens in a crash that disables power to those fancy doors?:

    Tesla owner pulled from flames when falcon doors fail to open

    apparently there is a hidden "manual pull" that I had not read about. Sounds like our trunk back up bicycle cable arrangement.
    Dermot
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  9. #9
    Senior Member DMCVegas's Avatar
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    A poor design for roof-mounted vehicle doors?

    Robert

    Board Member, DeLorean Owners Association



    Recording Secretary
    Ask me how the DOA can help get the word out about your club's local car shows!

  10. #10
    Senior Member DMC5180's Avatar
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    I wonder how heavy the door is once the latch is manually released. I don't recall seeing any gas struts to assist it.


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    VIN 5180, Frame 3652, STAGE I, DM-eng Solid State Solutions (RPM Rly, Dm.Lt.Mod., Fan Fail Mod. , FAN Rly, HS.Rly) , HID sealed beam style headlights, SPAX user since 2009, Eibach springs, Mid-State Club Adj. Rear LCA's, DPNW poly-sway bar kit, DMCEU LCA Stabilizer link kit, DMCMW Illuminated door sills, Aussie Illuminated SS Shifter plate, GENUINE MOMO EVO Steering wheel, DELOREANA Extended View Side Mirrors w/ Heaters, DELOREANA LED Door Lights.

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