Carb Conversion "Kits" ETA March-April 2016

[Lou and "Boo"]

Carry on now that everyone is fully informed and the playing field is clear.

Good luck to all.

My words are a fair and honest review from a real life paying customer , not personal bickering.

[Lou and "Boo"]

To answer a request from DMC today administrator, I have been asked to post that any and all deleted posts have been reinstated.

Carry on

[DMCVegas]

I will pay more for fuel injection parts. I see what Chad said about Bill. I ask to see if what Chad says is true and get attacked. Is that how this forum is? I may not be a forum guy.

Truth? You walked in on an ongoing drama which involves many people, and has lasted for many, many years now.

The forum is a great advantage to ownership. You have a massive archive of past questions that have been answered, and anything that you do not see, you can ask and usually get a quick answer in no time flat. Along those lines too we also have some great social aspects too of where we can communicate back and forth about offline events and whatnot. Being in Houston is a perfect example of the tech days that get held, along with parades and other gatherings and whatnot. You can find more information here:

http://www.citizenkidd.com/dmc/pages/home.asp

And likewise the DOA will probably be of a good advantage for you as well. Things have been rather quiet with the club for a while, but they're looking to liven up in the very near future for sure.

http://www.deloreanowners.org/

I don't care what the subject is, anytime you participate in online message boards, there will always be drama somewhere, in some corner of that site. Comparatively, the DeLorean marque's online community presence is actually one of the oldest on the internet. The group of people you see now go back to the mid 1990's where we started out on USENET. From there the DML was born, and many people took on projects to help the community. From cross-referencing databases, to scanning parts manuals, organizing tech tips, and especially moderating that old list. And it helped to further offline communications.

Comparatively, the group that comes to closest to the DeLorean community is the Miata group. And that's mainly just do to their sheer numbers. VWVortex comes close too. In terms of drama and arguing though, this site is like Romper Room compared to others. But again, we're all pretty tight-knit as a group here. People do come and go, but hell, I'm coming up on my 20th year of being apart of the online DeLorean community. And if I've learned anything, it's that these fights don't last.

[Lou and "Boo"]

Truth? You walked in on an ongoing drama which involves many people, and has lasted for many, many years now.

The forum is a great advantage to ownership. You have a massive archive of past questions that have been answered, and anything that you do not see, you can ask and usually get a quick answer in no time flat. Along those lines too we also have some great social aspects too of where we can communicate back and forth about offline events and whatnot. Being in Houston is a perfect example of the tech days that get held, along with parades and other gatherings and whatnot. You can find more information here:

http://www.citizenkidd.com/dmc/pages/home.asp

And likewise the DOA will probably be of a good advantage for you as well. Things have been rather quiet with the club for a while, but they're looking to liven up in the very near future for sure.

http://www.deloreanowners.org/

I don't care what the subject is, anytime you participate in online message boards, there will always be drama somewhere, in some corner of that site. Comparatively, the DeLorean marque's online community presence is actually one of the oldest on the internet. The group of people you see now go back to the mid 1990's where we started out on USENET. From there the DML was born, and many people took on projects to help the community. From cross-referencing databases, to scanning parts manuals, organizing tech tips, and especially moderating that old list. And it helped to further offline communications.

Comparatively, the group that comes to closest to the DeLorean community is the Miata group. And that's mainly just do to their sheer numbers. VWVortex comes close too. In terms of drama and arguing though, this site is like Romper Room compared to others. But again, we're all pretty tight-knit as a group here. People do come and go, but hell, I'm coming up on my 20th year of being apart of the online DeLorean community. And if I've learned anything, it's that these fights don't last.

+1
I agree with everything said here.

[DMCVegas]

Carburetion is not for everybody.

That certainly is the case, Bill. But you do need to be a bit more explicit than that. Carburetion isn't for everyone for two big facts. The first are the consequences of carburetion.

If you live in an area that doesn't require emissions testing, you're fine using a carb. But if your area DOES require testing, or if you even have the possibility of relocating to an area that does require testing, you absolutely shouldn't get involved with a carburetor. In California and Nevada for example, after they enter your VIN into the system to conduct your smog check, the very first thing that they do is pop the hood (or in our cases engine covers) and look for this:



They have to check the vacuum diagram to first ensure that it is present, and will then verify that all of the vacuum hoses are in place for the Emissions Control Equipment. Which if memory serves, not only does this carb kit NOT have any provisions for vacuum lines to connect to the charcoal canister, but it has been advised to people in the past to remove the canister entirely and just vent it out into the atmosphere, along with the Crank Case too if memory serves. Even if you connected those lines, it still doesn't match what is on that diagram and would result in an immediate testing failure. Even in states like Nevada that DO give certain exemptions for classic cars, the car has to pass at least one single emissions test to be granted an operating exemption, and can still be summoned to the state Smog Lab for an inspection at any time.

And aside from the negative impact upon the environment of just venting gasoline vapors out, there are also some other serious concerns. First off is how much more that is going to cost you. Both in terms of fuel lost to evaporation, to damage to your fuel pump and prematurely clogged filters from all the dust and dirt that can contaminate your fuel by way of that line. Then you also have to worry about Fire Risk from Spiders.

So no, a carb conversion most certainly is NOT for everyone. There are a few serious things to think about before you consider it.

The worst case scenario is an owner who sticks a carb on his car without understanding what he is doing.

Assistance isn't just limited to online interactions. DeLorean owners often travel to one another's houses for on site assistance.

Which brings up the best part of this entire thing here. People NEED a proper, permanent guide. I know that you have sacrificed so very much, Bill, to go out of your way to drive to people's homes to help them. And that's nice. But there are times that you're not going to be able to do that. Sometimes like with Chad and Lou here, people have a falling out. Sometimes like me, I don't want people over at my house. Even if you are on good terms, what happens when you die, Bill? Who will help them then? And that's the crux of this entire thing: People need a complete guide for Carburetor Conversions. Not just on how to install them, but on how to properly tune them with an Infrared Gas Analyzer, or even just an O2 sensor. Then they need to know how to do things like troubleshoot exhaust gas ratios, and how to determine when, and what size jets to swap out, etc. They cannot be left on their own to just figure it out. And if you've EVER in your life ever used a manual to troubleshoot or repair something, you know how valuable that documentation is.

[Farrar]

One of the frequently-cited sources of information for stock DeLoreans is the workshop manual. There are also books on Bosch fuel injection which owners have recommended to other owners. Similarly, there are books available which could help a user set up and tune a carburetor. Before I considered replacing my malfunctioning K-Jet system with a 2150 setup, I consulted a book on auto repair and tune-up from the 1960s. It had an entire chapter on carburetors, from theory to operation and tuning. That helped me make up my mind.

A Google search for "carburetor setup" turns up many useful results. (This one includes photographs. This one uses a vacuum gauge. This one is specific to the Motorcraft 2150.) The last time a thread was started here on DMCTalk along the lines of "Q&A for carburetion," it ended up not being so useful in the long run. Meanwhile, no one seems to have made a specific "How to" thread for converting from K-Jet to carburetion via Motorcraft 2150 and one of Bill's bespoke manifolds. Perhaps the next owner to perform the conversion can snap pics and do a write-up. That might satisfy the craving for DMCTalk-hosted documentation. (I'd do it myself, but my conversion is already done. And I don't have the time for such a project right now. Doing a proper writeup takes a lot more time and effort than one might initially think if one has not yet done such a thing.)

I won't get involved in any feuds or troll-feeding, but I am willing to answer questions, to the best of my knowledge, about carburetor conversion on an automatic DeLorean. Mine was converted in 2008. I don't know everything, but I'm willing to share what I know.

[content22207_2]

DML

DML is still alive & kicking. It started as an eMail digest, and that is still an option, but people accustomed to online forum formats would probably prefer accessing the DML via its Yahoo interface (not 100% identical to an online forum, but reasonably close): https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dmcnews/info

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Lou and "Boo"]

Bill, can you please tell if both of the carb's I have (yes, one will be sent back to you) are 2100s or 2150s?



Getting an education on the carb and trying to figure it out alone is what is making me hesitant. I don't want to mess anything up. I am determined to get your carb back asap but first I need to know what exact model I am dealing with.
I am also replacing all ignition components in the engine compartment as you suggested the issue maybe ignition, even though it happened directly from swapping from one carb to the next.

I think that that first carb had the full throttle enrichment valve blocked off and the replacement carb had it installed. I don't see how the full throttle enrichment valve would cause bad sputtery hesitation from say idle to mid pedal, but I don't know how it all works. I know you don't want to help me but it's really helping both of us.
Thank you Bill !
And I repeat what Bill says and I fully agree. Don't make the mistake I did and be uneducated to your carb. Educate yourself on the workings of the Carberator so you won't be stuck with an issue that you don't understand, like I am.
Louis

If Bill doesn't offer information and anyone else is comfortable with these carbs, please help. It may be a choke adjustment or even the fact that the new carb had smaller jets that may be too small given I am using the peugot manifold even though it test drove ok on Bill's Volvo manifold.

I am just trying to remedy my car and my ongoing dispute with Bill. Trying to get his carb back asap.

No trolling , no libelous comments ... I think we can all see that.

Thank you all.

[content22207_2]

Definitely never should have helped owners in person (free of charge, thank you very much) -- that's come back to haunt me with a vengeance. Definitely doesn't pay to be nice. I have learned my lesson: in the future I will sell parts only -- it's up to buyers to know what they are doing. I will continue to provide information of course (I give copious annotated pictures like this:



And I will provide textual assistance (answer questions), but my days of helping owners in person are over.

If nothing else, it gives owners a bad entitlement complex -- they *EXPECT* you to come to their house, and get mad if you don't. Does anybody get mad at James Espy if he doesn't come to their house?

Speaking of which: When DMCH sells you a water pump, they assume you know what to do with they thing. Unless there's something wrong with the pump itself, if an owner screws up his water pump install, that isn't Houston's fault.

When Betty Crocker sells you cake mix, it's up to you not to burn the cake.

Chad and Louis are the first owners to burn me in terms of hands on assistance (in Chad's case he got pissed off I wouldn't travel all the way to Texas -- as you can see in the videos his install went perfectly well using pictures and text answers, but he remains pissed off still).

Speaking of Chad, here's the excerpted video I promised. As you can plainly see, his car runs just fine. Chad is pissed off to be certain, but he can't be pissed off about the carb conversion itself:



I probably should walk away from the money he still owes me. As Josh Bengston discovered, it's best to take a financial loss and sever all contact with Chad.

Anyway, progress continues on these next conversions. If you know what you are doing, and can install one without chasing me around the Internet like a crazy ex girlfriend, I am more than happy to sell you all the pieces. I will provide copious annotated pictures like this:



I will answer any and all questions in text. But don't expect me to come to your house, or think you deserve it. You're getting plenty of uncompensated labor in the parts already.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207_2]

Bill, can you please tell if both of the carb's I have (yes, one will be sent back to you) are 2100s or 2150s?

You have 2100's. All my Peugeot manifold conversions use 2100's.

Only differences between 2100 and 2150:
- 2150 has external choke pulloff (some 2100's have external pulloffs as well, but I only use 2100's with integrated pulloffs for ignition distributor clearance)
- 2150 throttle plates sit in recesses in the throttle shaft rather than slots
- 2150's have variable air bleeds (baseball bat shaped rods raised and lowered by a cam on the throttle shaft)

Bill Robertson
#5939