To Title or not to Title

[Shark Pilot]

So some of you may have seen that I have my DMC-12 for sale, but it's Title-less thanks to the USPS losing the Title during my second tour in Iraq. So my conundrum is this: Do I bond the title and try to sell the car that way or sell it without a title and have the new owner bond a title to try and secure a title for the car that way? Most states in the Northeast don't require a title for registration and proof of ownership comes through the Bill of Sale if the car is older than 1994. I know there are other states that are this way as well, but I'm just not sure what to do. I have proof that I own the car of course and the Bill of Sale from the previous owner, but no darn title. In addition to this, since the previous owner is a total a#$hole we had a falling out and contacting him for a duplicate title (in AZ) is not an option. Suggestions are welcome.

[Lou and "Boo"]

All I can say is that I personally would be very hesitant to buy a car with no title.

It's like buying a house with no deed. Or maybe not as bad, buying a house with permit violations that the buyer has to sort out and file for. More work for the buyer usually equals less possibility of a sale.

This is just my opinion, my two cents. You WERE asking for advice after all.

[iflights]

This was a topic of interest to me and was doing research on it as well. You mentioned you do have proof you own the vehicle. What other documents besides Bill of Sale do you have? Cancelled check from the purchase? I think the strength of the documentation will ultimately provide the direction on this.

[David T]

This was a topic of interest to me and was doing research on it as well. You mentioned you do have proof you own the vehicle. What other documents besides Bill of Sale do you have? Cancelled check from the purchase? I think the strength of the documentation will ultimately provide the direction on this.

Without a Title the car is worth a LOT less. I would contact the last State the car was titled in and figure out how to get it cleared up. Most States require a Title now. Any buyer would want one or he is just buying a parts car. Each State has it's own procedures for replacing a lost Title. The Title is proof that the car has not been totaled and there is no lien against it. A Bill of Sale can't do that.

[dn010]

Get a title - no one is really going to want to deal with title issues after handing over $30K+.

I'm pretty sure most states still require some sort of official document in order to get a title. When I purchased a 1957 Cadillac and realized the title was not signed by the owner, that is when my nightmares began. It turned out the guy I purchased the car from never titled/registered the vehicle to his name from whoever he bought the car from. I went to the DMV explaining the honest situation and they refused to accept the title without a signature and bill of sale NOTARIZED so there was no forgery going on. I had to track down the guy whose name was on the title, mail the title to him for his notarized signature and have him send it back. It was a miracle I tracked him down and he was willing to help me out, I even sent some money with the title since I appreciated it. I got all the documents, went to the DMV and they issued me a 'transferable registration'. Without all that, I would have been screwed with a car that had no title.


Then it went from NYS to FL transferring all this. When I lived in NYS I had my cars in my father's name for certain reasons including the fact I was in the Army and in case anything happened he could deal with the vehicles. My DeLorean had a title in NYS so that was no problem. The Cadillac had that tiny 4"X4" 'transferable registration' paper which was the official document in NYS for vehicles made prior to 1973. When I moved to Florida I went to the DMV with that tiny paper and handed it to the clerk, she looked up rules/statues/laws in a 3" thick book and with much hesitation on proceeding she then brought it all to her supervisor who had to go over everything. They accepted the 'transferable registration' after probably 20 minutes of deciding what to do. They took my money, printed a Florida Title for the Cadillac and off I went.

That is with an official document- transferable registration, I don't think it would be easy to get a title without something similar.

[iflights]

Without a Title the car is worth a LOT less. I would contact the last State the car was titled in and figure out how to get it cleared up. Most States require a Title now. Any buyer would want one or he is just buying a parts car. Each State has it's own procedures for replacing a lost Title. The Title is proof that the car has not been totaled and there is no lien against it. A Bill of Sale can't do that.

I'm in total agreement on all those points. I'm assuming the OP never received a signed title from the PO for the intent to transfer ownership and re-title, otherwise for the OP, this would be a simple duplicate title request. Hence this doesn't appear to be a "lost title" problem.

A bonded title is only good for X period of time. Not permanent, so that doesn't even solve OP's problem. My interest was how would the OP even prove he is the owner without documentation and without assistance of PO. As painful as it might be, the PO might be required here.

[DavidProehl]

You probably don't need more people joining the chorus, but here I go.

Title it. To most buyers, this is the only thing that really proves to them you own the car and that you are transferring ownership. You may be able to prove it in your mind other ways, but you will have a hard time proving it to possible buyers.

[Andrew]

I agree with what the others have said. Try to secure a duplicate title from the last titling state. Call the main office of the Secretary of State / DMV for the state. They will be the best possible source for securing the correct info, especially if the outstanding title is older. When I purchased 5052, I had to contact the Oklahoma Department of Revenue (they are the entity that issues titles in Oklahoma) I was able to get in contact with a very helpful employee who was able to verify the 1991 title on archived microfilm.

Be very nice and patient with the person on the phone...never underestimate the value in being somebody that people want to help. On an aside, from my experience, the worker in Oklahoma found tracking down a DeLorean title to be a fun project compared to the usual everyday tasks of his job.

Best of luck!

Andrew
4194
5052

[PJ Grady Inc.]

So some of you may have seen that I have my DMC-12 for sale, but it's Title-less thanks to the USPS losing the Title during my second tour in Iraq. So my conundrum is this: Do I bond the title and try to sell the car that way or sell it without a title and have the new owner bond a title to try and secure a title for the car that way? Most states in the Northeast don't require a title for registration and proof of ownership comes through the Bill of Sale if the car is older than 1994. I know there are other states that are this way as well, but I'm just not sure what to do. I have proof that I own the car of course and the Bill of Sale from the previous owner, but no darn title. In addition to this, since the previous owner is a total a#$hole we had a falling out and contacting him for a duplicate title (in AZ) is not an option. Suggestions are welcome.

You should be able to get a new title with ownership documentation and a paper tracing (in pencil) of the VIN in most states if you're not in a hurry. You can in N.Y. and they tend to be the toughest state on just about everything!
Rob

[DMCVegas]

It's $25 and 2-3 weeks on average to avoid a whole lotta hassle.

http://www.ct.gov/dmv/lib/dmv/20/29/h-6b.pdf