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Thread: 3.0L engine swap

  1. #511
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farrar View Post
    I couldn't find any such marking on the carburetor. On the bottom, there's a giant "8" on one corner and "KT" on the other corner. The only other identifying marks are "Motorcraft" and "1.08," which we already knew...

    Bill says it's a 2100, but it looks to me like it has some features of the 2150. Not sure if that is helpful.
    Thought I posted this already??? ...Anyway-

    The number is usually on a tag under one of the front screws holding the top on. Some also have it stamped on the side of the mounting ear located on the linkage side, front.

    The "1.08" is the venturi size (common for ~289CID engine):

    X.XX = CFM
    0.98 = 190
    1.01 = 240
    1.02 = 245
    1.08 = 287
    1.14 = 300
    1.21 = 351
    1.23 = 356
    1.33 = 424

    All 2100's are curved across the back -- 2150's are straight. See below:
    2100ID.jpg 2150ID.jpg

    This Dashpot-Solenoid should work either way, IF your's has the correct mounting holes.
    $hop around tho!!

  2. #512
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farrar View Post
    No improvement, or maybe a slight improvement. The car still rocks at idle.

    Note that "idle" in my case means three different things:
    (1) idling without a/c on and in "Park" or "Neutral," about 880-900 RPM.
    (2) idling without a/c on and in "Drive," about 760-800 RPM.
    (3) idling with a/c on and in "Drive," about 700-720 RPM.

    That is until the engine is really hot, in which case it's all of those + 50 RPM.

    FWIW, the 3.0L workshop manual says idle speed should be 790 RPM.

    I want to set the idle speed as low as possible without the engine dying in gear with the a/c on (had that happen - embarrassing), because otherwise when the engine is hot and I put the thing in "Park" and turn off the a/c, the engine diesels for a few seconds when I shut it off (also embarrassing).

    It's easier to see the "0" on the timing scale than any of the other numbers since it's so far to the right, so I bought a fancy new timing light which has provision for spark advance, set it to 14°, and looked. Advance is at 14° at 780-800 RPM. That's probably not bad, so I'll leave it there.

    (Why the ~20 variance in the numbers? Because the numbers jump around when I am trying to set idle speed.)

    I'm not sure what to do now except finish charging the a/c and take the thing on a test drive. I need to put fuel in the tank, anyway, because it's down to a quarter tank. Probably it will run like it did before. But I am tired of banging my head against this wall. I will just drive the car and try not to be embarrassed by it. Par for the course with any other old car, so why not this one?

    This is not unusual: Bill can tweak one thing on my car and have it running fine, and all I have to do is drive it for a while and stuff starts going wrong with it. When it comes to all things automotive, if Bill is King Midas, I am the poop emoji.
    The dashpot-solenoid should solve the diesel and idle speed problems.

    For the other, you might try:
    While warmed up and idling, pull the plug wires one cylinder at a time looking for any that are not firing (no change in sound or RPM). If no luck, put a vacuum gauge on it and post a vid of idle, sloooow revs to red line, WOTs, etc.

  3. #513
    Senior Member DMC5180's Avatar
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    Farrar,

    I’m not familiar with the 3.0 heads and Plug wire configuration. Does the 3.0 use the same style sparkplug boots as the B28F?


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    VIN 5180, Frame 3652, STAGE II​, DM-eng Solid State Solutions (RPM Rly, Dm.Lt.Mod., Fan Fail Mod. , FAN Rly, HS.Rly) , HID headlights, SPAX user since 2009, Eibach springs, M Adj. Rear LCA's, DPNW poly-sway bar kit, DMCEU LCA Stabilizer link kit, DMCMW Illuminated door sills, Aussie Illuminated SS Shifter plate, REAL MOMO EVO Steering wheel, DELOREANA Extended View Side Mirrors w/ Heaters, DELOREANA LED Door Lights.

  4. #514
    EFI'd dn010's Avatar
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    Before putting more fuel in the tank, did you look at the old fuel in there to see if it is full of sediment? You will undo all the work you just did if you fill it up and it still has crap in it.
    -----Dan B.

  5. #515
    Senior Member DMC5180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dn010 View Post
    Before putting more fuel in the tank, did you look at the old fuel in there to see if it is full of sediment? You will undo all the work you just did if you fill it up and it still has crap in it.
    Even more interesting that the crap made it through the filter to begin with. It says a lot about how poor those filters really are. Should probably put in a filter with at least 125 micron filtration.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    DENNIS

    VIN 5180, Frame 3652, STAGE II​, DM-eng Solid State Solutions (RPM Rly, Dm.Lt.Mod., Fan Fail Mod. , FAN Rly, HS.Rly) , HID headlights, SPAX user since 2009, Eibach springs, M Adj. Rear LCA's, DPNW poly-sway bar kit, DMCEU LCA Stabilizer link kit, DMCMW Illuminated door sills, Aussie Illuminated SS Shifter plate, REAL MOMO EVO Steering wheel, DELOREANA Extended View Side Mirrors w/ Heaters, DELOREANA LED Door Lights.

  6. #516
    Owner since 2007 Farrar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC5180 View Post
    Does the 3.0 use the same style sparkplug boots as the B28F?
    No, they're quite different:

    3.0L spark plug boot.jpg

    ...

    [Disclaimer: all engine speed values below are approximate. Using my digital timing light, the RPM value displayed tends to jump around by 20-30 RPM at any given speed.]

    I haven't connected a vacuum gauge yet, but today I took the time to try to fix the idle mixture. Backing off the curb idle screw entirely dropped engine speed to about 550 RPM. It was running very rough. I adjusted the mixture until the idle was more stable (mixture was made more lean). At this point the engine speed had increased to about 600 RPM. I was able to punch the throttle and have it settle back down to 600 RPM without the engine stalling out.

    Interestingly, when the cooling fans came on, the engine speed dropped a little. I have no idea why an electrical load would translate to a physical load on the engine. Someone more informed than me can probably explain it. Nevertheless, the alternator is performing well. It should, since it's only a couple of years old.

    I engaged the curb idle screw to raise idle speed to about 900 RPM. It is running more smoothly, but not as smooth as when I first took delivery of the vehicle.

    All of this comes in the context of installing a new a/c compressor, by the way: before I was interrupted I was almost done re-charging the system. With the idle speed at 900 RPM I turned on the a/c. Idle speed dropped to 700 RPM. Alternator was still producing 13.8 Volts, even though factory spec for this engine says idle should be 790 RPM. No worries. I finished charging the system and tightened the low pressure switch where I heard a hiss when I shut the engine off. (I probably bumped the low pressure switch when I was fumbling around for the electrical connections last week.)

    Started the engine again. It fired up immediately and settled into an idle at 900 RPM.

    Turned on the a/c and put it in gear. Idle speed dropped significantly but the gauge on the dash isn't 100% accurate so I'm not sure what it was. Probably 650 RPM or so. That's actually not too bad, in my opinion.

    I shut off the a/c, put it back in "Park" and shut the engine off. It did not diesel.

    The fuel gauge now reads 1/8 of a tank. I need to fill it up before I do any more testing, but it seems things are getting better. Now that I'm done with the a/c (for now), I will connect a vacuum gauge and do the same idle mixture adjustment as I did above, but with a bit more precision, I hope. There's a filling station not far from here, but it's a pricey one. Dare I drive the full twenty minutes to Costco?

    ...

    In other news, this arrived while we were away for the holiday:

    dashpotsolenoid.jpg

    I asked Bill what kind of dashpot/solenoid I needed, and he said I don't need one. Obviously, I bought one anyway. LOL I'll have to figure out how it works on my own. That shouldn't be too hard.
    3.0L, automatic, carbureted

  7. #517
    Owner since 2007 Farrar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    All 2100's are curved across the back -- 2150's are straight.
    Thanks, that's what I thought. Mine definitely doesn't have that dogbone shape.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    This Dashpot-Solenoid should work either way, IF your's has the correct mounting holes.
    $hop around tho!!
    Great! By coincidence, that's the one I ordered.
    3.0L, automatic, carbureted

  8. #518
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farrar View Post
    ... I finished charging the system and tightened the low pressure switch where I heard a hiss when I shut the engine off. (I probably bumped the low pressure switch when I was fumbling around for the electrical connections last week.)
    FWIW- Hand tighten. They are very very easy to break. Although they have a place for a wrench to fit, that is for removal...

    Quote Originally Posted by Farrar View Post
    In other news, this arrived while we were away for the holiday:

    dashpotsolenoid.jpg

    I asked Bill what kind of dashpot/solenoid I needed, and he said I don't need one. Obviously, I bought one anyway. LOL I'll have to figure out how it works on my own. That shouldn't be too hard.
    Connect the pigtail to the compressor clutch. With the engine idling, warm, AC OFF, adjust the carb for the highest vacuum you can get at a smooth idle, readjust the RPM and repeat... Once turning either air screw either way does not help (high vacuum and idle at spec), turn the AC ON and adjust the solenoid section to raise the idle back up to spec.

    The dashpot section is probably ready to go... As a test, from a stop, put it in 1st and floor it. Then about 1/4 to 1/3 through the gear, let off abruptly. If the engine doesn't stall, you are good to go. Otherwise, adjust via the screw in the back of the diaphragm.

  9. #519
    Owner since 2007 Farrar's Avatar
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    I connected the vacuum gauge and adjusted the idle mixture for the highest vacuum. Just like before, I backed off the curb idle screw until the engine was stumbling around 550-600 RPM. (600 RPM without the cooling fans on ... 550 RPM with the cooling fans on.)

    Just to be sure I was doing OK, I engaged the curb idle screw and tried re-adjusting as I increased idle speed by 100s all the way up to 900 RPM. Re-adjustment was not necessary: the screws were best left in the same place all the way up. 900 RPM is where I have it set since it leaves me in "Drive" at a stoplight with the a/c on at 650 RPM. That's high enough to keep the engine from stalling with that load on it. The alternator is still putting out charging voltage at that speed, but since the manual says idle is 790 RPM for this engine, I do wonder about oil pressure.

    (The stoplights in Florida are the longest I have ever encountered. Sometimes if I get to an intersection just as the light turns red, it means staring at a red light for three or four minutes!)

    It still doesn't idle smoothly, but everything looks good "on paper" so I am leaving it alone. However, I do want to give the dashpot a try. It is annoying as heck when that a/c compressor kicks in and the engine speed drops 200 RPM.

    EDIT: Thanks for those instructions, Ron!
    Last edited by Farrar; 11-27-2018 at 05:37 PM.
    3.0L, automatic, carbureted

  10. #520
    Senior Member Bitsyncmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farrar View Post
    Interestingly, when the cooling fans came on, the engine speed dropped a little. I have no idea why an electrical load would translate to a physical load on the engine. Someone more informed than me can probably explain it. Nevertheless, the alternator is performing well. It should, since it's only a couple of years old.
    An electrical load puts more load on the alternator which is why the carbed idle speed will change. If the alternator were a perfect machine then 770 watts of load would require one horsepower of work. At idle an engine may only be producing 5 to 10 HP so a small load change will produce an RPM change.
    Dave M vin 03572
    http://dm-eng.weebly.com/

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