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Thread: 3.0L engine swap

  1. #291
    Senior Member
    Join Date:  Mar 2014

    Location:  Lansing, MI

    Posts:    360

    My VIN:    04194: 5-Speed, Black Int, 79 Peugeot 604 Manifold, 05052: 5-Speed, Gray Int, 78 Peugeot 604 manifol

    Quote Originally Posted by Farrar View Post
    Thanks, Josh, for that information!

    Since #2613's temperature gauge has also failed, I will eventually have to pull the cluster out and repair/replace some stuff there. That might be a good time to investigate electronic speedo options. Much as I would like adore a fully-backlit install using a Dakota Digital kit like another user here on DMCTalk has done, I won't be able to - partly because the cost would be $1,000+ and partly because that user seems to have disappeared before fulfilling his promise to share his graphics template.

    In the short term, a replacement angle drive from the UK is $60. In the long term, retrofitting the guts of an electronic gauge seems like a good way to go. If/when that happens, it may be lucky for me that #2613's previous owner outfitted the cluster with a 140 MPH gauge: I believe most speedometers these days are 120 MPH or greater, so finding an electronic gauge compatible with the layout of the installed gauge face is more likely as opposed to the original 85 MPH one.

    And then I suppose the difficult part would then be figuring out what to do about the mechanical odometers: I like the look of them but if they can't be adapted they'll have to be replaced...

    I have a lot of studying to do.
    With regard to the temp gauge failure, did you verify that the actual gauge is the culprit? A bad connection at the bulkhead plug or at the dash ribbon cable could easily provide a no-temp signal condition on the gauge.

    On the issue of angle drives, Rob Grady makes a great angle drive. Make sure your lower cable turns freely and isn't gunked / rusted up. Based upon the amount of time your car has been sitting, lower cable rust can be an issue. I recently disassembled 4194's lower cable and gave it a good cleaning.

    While I would certainly agree that the DeLorean's speedometer system is far from perfect, there is nothing inherently wrong with a mechanical speedometer system. They worked just fine from the early days of speed limits all the way until the late 80's / early 90's. I suspect that the changeover from mechanical to VSS systems was more the result of advances in ECM / TCM technology and the need to electronically monitor vehicle speed than any problem with mechanical speedometers. Interestingly, my 1985 Toronado's digital dash gets its speed signal via a mechanical cable and an optical pickup. :-)
    Andrew
    4194 Since 7/98
    5052 Since 7/14

    1972 Buick Riviera
    1974 Bricklin SV-1 177
    1982 AMC Eagle SX/4 (4.2 I6, 4 Speed)
    1983 Pontiac Trans Am (Knight Rider Conversion in progress)
    1985 Oldsmobile Toronado (daily driver)

    Solex carb and antenna television guru.

    "My carbon footprint is bigger than yours!" :-)

  2. #292
    Voice For Hire Farrar's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Long Island, New York

    Posts:    4,282

    My VIN:    02613

    Club(s):   (LINY-DMC) (DCUK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    With regard to the temp gauge failure, did you verify that the actual gauge is the culprit?
    Yes. The sensor is putting out a proper signal and the gauge is receiving it. The resistor pack used to calibrate the gauge is the part which has failed.

    The nature of the failure gives it away: when the engine is cold, the gauge starts out reading as normal, but then as the engine heats up the gauge becomes increasingly inaccurate, reading higher and higher until the needle goes almost all the way around.

    Until I can repair or replace the temperature gauge, a temporary sensor and gauge have been installed. They don't look great, but they are good enough for test driving, and will be good enough to get me home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    While I would certainly agree that the DeLorean's speedometer system is far from perfect, there is nothing inherently wrong with a mechanical speedometer system.
    I agree, but since my plans for future cruise control require a 16 PPR signal and I can easily get that signal by strapping a trigger ring on the CV flange and mounting a sensor, I might as well allow that sensor to pull double duty if/when I upgrade my gauge cluster.

    In the meantime, Houston sells angle drives that are not maintenance-friendly but also are not particularly expensive. I will buy one of those if our little experiment fails.
    Last edited by Farrar; 10-13-2017 at 01:38 PM.
    DeLorean status: test driving new engine

    "Our doubts are traitors,
    And make us lose the good we oft might win
    By fearing to attempt."
    -Wm. Shakespeare, Measure for Measure

  3. #293
    Senior Member
    Join Date:  Mar 2014

    Location:  Lansing, MI

    Posts:    360

    My VIN:    04194: 5-Speed, Black Int, 79 Peugeot 604 Manifold, 05052: 5-Speed, Gray Int, 78 Peugeot 604 manifol

    Quote Originally Posted by Farrar View Post



    I agree, but since my plans for future cruise control require a 16 PPR signal and I can easily get that signal by strapping a trigger ring on the CV flange and mounting a sensor, I might as well allow that sensor to pull double duty if/when I upgrade my gauge cluster.

    In the meantime, Houston sells angle drives that are not maintenance-friendly but also are not particularly expensive. I will buy one of those if our little experiment fails.
    This is what I used when I installed cruise control in 5052:

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rpc-250-4153

    I removed the Lambda counter and installed the inline sensor in the former lambda counter location. The lower cable has the same fitting as the new sensor; however, I needed to adapt the upper cable to fit.
    Andrew
    4194 Since 7/98
    5052 Since 7/14

    1972 Buick Riviera
    1974 Bricklin SV-1 177
    1982 AMC Eagle SX/4 (4.2 I6, 4 Speed)
    1983 Pontiac Trans Am (Knight Rider Conversion in progress)
    1985 Oldsmobile Toronado (daily driver)

    Solex carb and antenna television guru.

    "My carbon footprint is bigger than yours!" :-)

  4. #294
    Senior Member DMC5180's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Reedsburg, WI

    Posts:    3,434

    My VIN:    5180

    Club(s):   (DMWC) (DCUK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    This is what I used when I installed cruise control in 5052:

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rpc-250-4153

    I removed the Lambda counter and installed the inline sensor in the former lambda counter location. The lower cable has the same fitting as the new sensor; however, I needed to adapt the upper cable to fit.
    What did you do to the upper cable to make it work? Were the input/outputs a square drive or round with a tang slot?
    DENNIS

    VIN 5180, Frame 3652, STAGE I, DM-eng Solid State Solutions (RPM Rly, Dm.Lt.Mod., Fan Fail Mod. , FAN Rly, HS.Rly) , HID sealed beam style headlights, SPAX user since 2009, Eibach springs, Mid-State Club Adj. Rear LCA's, DPNW poly-sway bar kit, DMCEU LCA Stabilizer link kit, DMCMW Illuminated door sills, Aussie Illuminated SS Shifter plate, GENUINE MOMO EVO Steering wheel, DELOREANA Extended View Side Mirrors w/ Heaters, DELOREANA LED Door Lights.

  5. #295
    Senior Member
    Join Date:  Mar 2014

    Location:  Lansing, MI

    Posts:    360

    My VIN:    04194: 5-Speed, Black Int, 79 Peugeot 604 Manifold, 05052: 5-Speed, Gray Int, 78 Peugeot 604 manifol

    Quote Originally Posted by DMC5180 View Post
    What did you do to the upper cable to make it work? Were the input/outputs a square drive or round with a tang slot?
    I used a dremmel to cut the stock fitting off the upper cable. Then I installed the fitting end from the short adapter cable which came with the sensor on the stock upper cable and crimped it in place.

    The sensor accepts a square cable end, but i was able to use a small flat head screwdriver to reshape the little sleeve inside the sensor to accept the tang slot cable. It has given me trouble free operation for two years and a few thousand miles thus far.

    If I install cruise control on 4194, the only thing I would do differently is that I will cut the tang end off and crimp a square end (sourced from a Dorman speedometer cable repair kit) onto the stock cable.
    Andrew
    4194 Since 7/98
    5052 Since 7/14

    1972 Buick Riviera
    1974 Bricklin SV-1 177
    1982 AMC Eagle SX/4 (4.2 I6, 4 Speed)
    1983 Pontiac Trans Am (Knight Rider Conversion in progress)
    1985 Oldsmobile Toronado (daily driver)

    Solex carb and antenna television guru.

    "My carbon footprint is bigger than yours!" :-)

  6. #296
    Voice For Hire Farrar's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Long Island, New York

    Posts:    4,282

    My VIN:    02613

    Club(s):   (LINY-DMC) (DCUK)

    In case anyone would like to have a look at #2613's broken angle drive and exactly what the spindle cable failure looks like, here is a video that Bill made.



    If he provides photos, I will share those here, too.
    DeLorean status: test driving new engine

    "Our doubts are traitors,
    And make us lose the good we oft might win
    By fearing to attempt."
    -Wm. Shakespeare, Measure for Measure

  7. #297
    Voice For Hire Farrar's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Long Island, New York

    Posts:    4,282

    My VIN:    02613

    Club(s):   (LINY-DMC) (DCUK)

    angle drive update

    To quote Bill exactly: "Yay!"

    DeLorean status: test driving new engine

    "Our doubts are traitors,
    And make us lose the good we oft might win
    By fearing to attempt."
    -Wm. Shakespeare, Measure for Measure

  8. #298
    Voice For Hire Farrar's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Long Island, New York

    Posts:    4,282

    My VIN:    02613

    Club(s):   (LINY-DMC) (DCUK)

    No news is good news, right?

    #2613's probation is going well. I ordered the "meat lover's" headlight switch from the UK. It took a few weeks to get here because I am cheap.

    Note for anyone else ordering the switch: the box it comes in is small, so the switch is probably in one of the "on" modes because it just barely fits when "off." Be aware of this when you re-connect the battery after installing the switch.
    DeLorean status: test driving new engine

    "Our doubts are traitors,
    And make us lose the good we oft might win
    By fearing to attempt."
    -Wm. Shakespeare, Measure for Measure

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