RF Communications for group rides

[David T]

Thanks for the clarification, I heard it as FBS, now I know it is FRS. Anyway it is what most of us have so it is the best choice. We also pick channel 12 (DMC 12). Very common for most club events to ask members to bring their radios, not just Deloreans.

[nkemp]

Newer GMRS radios are also very inexpensive and offer much much better performance especially as cars on the road spread out. The ones shown above are at the higher end being mobile mounted devices.

For parades, with close communications, FRS may be OK. Bring them, use them, if it works great. BTW ... many older radios are FRS/GMRS combo radios and the GMRS channels broadcast at higher wattage than the FRS channels. So some may be using GMRS, not FRS. But these have fixed antennas and that is a disadvantage. Using a FRS radio on the road to DCS for example, if the last car pulls over, it may be out of range before the push to talk is pressed and nobody in front of them will ever know there is a problem until the last car cell_calls or texts.

The following link gives good range estimates of various technology and conditions: https://radiofreeq.wordpress.com/201...-gmrs-vs-murs/. Many anecdotal articles claim a few miles between better GMRS radios in cars and radios posted above can have 10Mile ranges (Note that the range capabilities on the bubble pack combo radio package are pretty bugus unless you are mountian top to mountian top). And ... YMMV

In the link, the best comparison for D2D highway communications is the last graphic showing pedestrian-to-pedestrian (using the device antennas). Being that the radios are in the car, using the device antenna, the range may be less. If you tell me that your FRS radio range was sometimes longer I'd say "OK". There are a lot of real world parameters at play.

The benefit of newer GMRS radios is higher wattage AND often an option to mount an external antenna. The external antenna will go a LONG way to getting the signal outside the car and get it out farther to other radios thus greater highway separation

BTW ... I use a Kenwood FCC type 90 labeled HT configured to GMRS (a legal configuration). They can be had for cheap ( a relative term). It has an external mike, with controls on the device and mike, is 12Vdc powered, and I use a 2M_band external antenna on the louver. These are professional quality (Fire, police, emergency services, commercial, ski patrol, etc) HT's with great specs. Being a licensed ham, I also programmed in some 2M_band channels for highway emergencies. I'll create a separate post on how and what to do.

For a group deciding what to get now:
- Newer GMRS radios (handheld or mobile mount) with an external antenna is a great option (but the license and station id requirement is a hassle).
- But I'm Starting to lean towards MURS radios. These are license free, no station ID requirement, and using surplus professional radios you can have a GREAT setup, that performs great for not much money. More on that later as well.

[nkemp]

We also pick channel 12 (DMC 12).

Channel 12 is FRS (467.6625). No license required. Older FRS radios are limited to 0.5Watts PEP. Newer ones can be up to 2 Watts but must have a fixed antenna (no external antenna).

Note that some of the inexpensive Chinese radios don't follow the FRS/GMRS rules. So much about FRS/GMRS may not apply if you are using those radios (I also have one of those). They get through using a ham radio operator loophole the best I can tell. Ham operators do not need to use FCC type rated radios on ham radio frequencies. But using them as FRS/GMRS radios violates FCC rules (enforcement is a separate issue).

[David T]

I agree the range on the FRS radios is limited but we overcome that by relaying messages and the first and last cars have each other's cell numbers. Nothing is forever and the GMRS sounds good and the prices will come down too. By then there will probably be something even better. For now most of us have the FRS radios to play with. The biggest problem as I see it with cellular is you can't use it like a party line as you can with FRS. On some of the drives the chatter is the most interesting part! A lot of truckers still use CB and it is always entertaining to hear them when we have a bunch of Deloreans out on a cruise. Then there are apps like WAZE that gives you real-time updates on road conditions. So many things to do that can distract you from driving!

[Citizen]

Agree with all who cited limitations with FRS, but....

Consider 10 cars in a parade, not likely to be more than 200-500 feet apart between first and last cars. A hand-held FRS has ample power, is cheap, easily obtained (try Walmart), and no license required.

In a caravan on the highway, cars are not likely to be more than 1 mile (5280') between the first & last car. A good technique is to arrange a numbering system and guidelines that all drivers agree to before starting out. All cars are numbered, 1 to 10, and cars stay in order as much as possible. As part of the agreement, car #1 should not be a speed demon, as a responsible leader would know someone 10 cars back could fall behind...maybe due to traffic, or catching a red light. Slow down and announce your intentions!

In the event the caravan becomes more than say 2-3 miles, say on the highway, and if the last car has a failure or drops back far enough, car #9 is gonna know it (not visible in rear-view mirror anymore, and cannot be raised on the radio), then that car radios ahead to advise the caravan. Caravan then slows down, or stops, and/or returns to help the straggler.

And like David said, cellular is an excellent backup (and everyone has them). As part of the caravan arrangement, all cell phone numbers are shared before starting out, so could be used if the FRS range is exceeded.

As far as what frequency to choose, I first try this simple guideline. Whatever day it is (ones digit), add 1 to that and that's the groups channel for that day. If today is the 1st choose channel 2. If the 8th, choose 9, if the 9th, choose channel 10, etc. If the day is the tenth or the 20th or the 30th of the month (ends with zero), choose channel 1 (zero plus 1 = 1). This technique keeps it fresh, and is easy for members to remember and (while easy to figure out), may keep the kiddos from busting up your parade or caravan chatter, unless they just happen on your frequency. Then, you could easily change. "Let's go to channel 15!" means go to channel 6 (5+1 = 6). But, use whatever rule(s) you want, as long as all agree.

All just common sense really, but it all first starts with owners bringing their radios with them to DeLo events (you'd be surprised how many people forget).

Thomas

...

[nkemp]

... bringing their radios with them to DeLo events ...

We've had good luck with owners bringing radios ... the not so good part was some radios were FRS channels only, some FRS/GMRS channel combos and some were something that nobody yet knows what channels are programmed (or what other radio services they may stomp on). Some brought extras to share. Some used those shared radios. So there was a mis-mash of radios not working together or getting far enough apart that the signal was garbled or not having enough for all the cars. Some radios lost battery power (having only internal batteries), some could be plugged into the car's 12Vdc. We've also been a part of a group that texted ... that was a PITA ... and is not advised if you are driving alone!

So that prompted me to create this post with more than enough information (more than many care about) that users can decide what would work well for their group. But there should be plenty of info to help new users decide what to do or help users upgrade should they want better performance.

Note: This info is USA specific but many other countries have similar radio regulations (check your local country for your specifics).

[nkemp]

Here are some solution options. All are FCC legal to the best of my knowledge. There are many more non-legal options which I'll not detail.

No matter which of the three solution groups below, all users will be able to communicate within the group regardless of the device selected. Some solutions will perform better than others and are sorta in order of performance. The examples are by no means a complete list.

---------------
FRS - Your group decides to go with the unlicensed FRS radios (FRS as known today. Was previously known as FRS only or FRS/GMRS combo radios). These can be up to 2 Watts (depending on channel). The benefit here is no licensing and no call sign identification requirements. The downside is that they cannot have an external antenna which limits range.

Example FRS Device:
- Get any past or current FRS bubble pack radio such as a Midland - GXT1000VP4

-----------------------
GMRS - Your group decides to use GMRS (as known today, and requires licensing and periodic call sign ID) radio channels and you are trying to decide what you want to get. Here are some options (in order of performance):

A- You can use an older GMRS/FRS bubble pack radio and use as is but only the GMRS channels.
B- Get one of the newer GMRS only radios and use as is.
C- Get one of the newer GMRS radios and add one or more of the options listed below.
D- Buy a used professional grade handheld transceiver, FCC Part 95 certified and program for the GMRS channels and wattage limits. This is a great option for those who like to tinker and are performance driven.

Example GMRS devices:

- For A above, get any past or current FRS bubble pack radio such as a Midland - GXT1000VP4

- For B and C above:

O- Midland Micro Mobile GMRS 2-Way Radio MXT90 mobile mount option
O- BTECH GMRS-V1 handheld transceiver and only program for GMRS channels

-For D above: Kenwood TK-390 is an excellent example.

--------------------------------
MURS - Your group decides to use MURS with no license and no station ID requirement (in order of performance):

X- Get a MURS radio and use as-is
Y- Get a MURS radio and add options listed below
Z- Buy a used professional grade handheld transceiver that meets:

• Part 95 certified and operates on MURS frequencies
• Part 95 certified prior to November 12, 2002 & transmits no more than 2 watts & has no external means to increase power above 2 watts & only operates wideband on the 154 MHz frequencies (all parts must be true)

• Part 90 certified prior to November 12, 2002 & transmits no more than 2 watts & has no external means to increase power above 2 watts & does not narrowband on the 151 MHz & 154 MHz frequencies or narrowband on 151 MHz & wideband on 154 MHz frequencies (all parts must be true)

Example MURS devices:
For X & Y above:
O- BTECH GMRS-V1 handheld transceiver and only program for MURS channels
O- Dakota Alert MURS, M538-HT
For Z above:
- Kenwood TK-2100 programmed for MURS frequencies

=============
Options for C & D & Y & Z above (mix any combination of below and make sure it can be used with your radio you selected):
1) Use with an external speaker/mic or mic (boom or throat)/earbud with PTT switch in the cable or the mic (you too can look like a DeLorean driving Secret Service agent)
2) Use with a 12Vdc power adapter
3) Use with an externally mounted 1/4 or 1/2 wave antenna (slightly shortened 70cm for GMRS and slightly shortened 2m for MURS or buy a band specifically tuned antenna)


***************
Note that CB devices are another solution but I've not detailed them here

[nkemp]

Opps .. error in the following

--------------------------------
MURS - Your group decides to use MURS with no license and no station ID requirement (in order of performance):

X- Get a MURS radio and use as-is
Y- Get a MURS radio and add options listed below
Z- Buy a used professional grade handheld transceiver that meets:

• Part 95 certified and operates on MURS frequencies
• Part 95 certified prior to November 12, 2002 & transmits no more than 2 watts & has no external means to increase power above 2 watts & only operates wideband on the 154 MHz frequencies (all parts must be true)

• Part 90 certified prior to November 12, 2002 & transmits no more than 2 watts & has no external means to increase power above 2 watts & does not narrowband on the 151 MHz & 154 MHz frequencies or narrowband on 151 MHz & wideband on 154 MHz frequencies (all parts must be true)

Example MURS devices:
For X & Y above:
O- BTECH GMRS-V1 handheld transceiver and only program for MURS channels
O- Dakota Alert MURS, M538-HT
For Z above:
- Kenwood TK-2100 programmed for MURS frequencies

"O- BTECH GMRS-V1 handheld transceiver and only program for MURS channels" is wrong since that is a GMRS only radio. Duh! It should be:

O- BTECH MURS-V1 MURS, a MURS only radio