RF Communications for group rides

[David T]

No, I don't suspect the FCC would allow clubs as all to operate under a single license since they did make it clear that an individual cannot allow employees to utilize one. So they've already got that scenario covered, and I'm sure it applies to organizations as well. However since it is just a fee rather than a test akin to a Radio Amateur license, that does favor things greatly.

Since DeLorean people are very keen on relevant numbers, I'd probably vote for channel 18 since it's "81" backwards if we have a problem with privacy codes.

I'm all for getting out and driving a car. There is no better way to build confidence, and it's just plain fun. Perhaps this is something we start introducing the community to by way of the clubs for both driving tours & caravans, as well as individual driving trips. I'll bring this up at the next DOA meeting as a future consideration.

Seems to be becoming more and more popular, driving tours. Many of the shows billing themselves as "Concours" include a driving tour as part of the show to expand the presence of the show into the community. Also gives the car owners the chance to show off their cars moving and the show makes more money by running a meal along with the tour. The DMA is getting ready for their "Summer Fun Run" for anyone interested. Always some great scenery. Don't forget your radio! BTW, when we do the parade on LBI the radios come in very handy so everyone knows what to do and when.

[nkemp]

Attachment 45126
http://www.westcoastmall.net/midland...na-p-1390.html

As you can see, this has an external antenna

Very interesting. If you want a FRS only unit with an external antenna, get these while you can! Per the FCC guidelines, this radio should not exist since it has an external and removable antenna. Per the FCC 95 rules:
"95.647 FRS unit and R/C transmitter antennas.

The antenna of each FRS unit, and the antenna of each R/C station transmitting in the 72–76 MHz band, must be an integral part of the transmitter. The antenna must have no gain (as compared to a half-wave dipole) and must be vertically polarized."

That is why no other FRS unit has a detachable antenna.

Regardless, they do seem to exist. When you can, check inside the battery compartment and see if it is type 95 certified. If so, there should be a FCC number that was assigned the model.

[Chris4099]

Yes, I think I read somewhere (been a long time) that Midland made these in violation of FCC or somehow the FCC let them slip through. But once discovered, Midland was allowed to sell their remaining inventory after stopping production. This one particular reseller seemed to be able to buy that inventory and is the only one selling them that I've found. They've been selling this model for about 10 years now so they must have had a large stock.

By chance I was driving my MINI to work today and was able to quickly get a pic of the back. Sure enough, FCC number!
20160804_114538.jpg

Sadly I think mine is dying after 10 years of service. Transmitter isn't working properly anymore. I have the handheld version of this model, so I may see if it's easy to transfer the external antenna port over. Otherwise, I'll buy another one because they work so well.

[nkemp]

Check out http://www.fm2way.com/frs.htm They have the Midland remote antenna radios for $40 + shipping.

Chris4099 ... is your problem as simple as a dirty PTT button?

[nkemp]

A radio option for those willing to put in the effort is to get a commercial LMR (Land Mobile Radio) UHF radio that has FCC Part 95 certification (Kenwood and Icom have some such radios) and reprogram it to the GMRS frequencies. There is also a discussion that Part 90 UHF radios can also be used. The Part 95 (covering GMRS) can and is often interpreted such that the Part 90 radio can be used legally. The FCC has not stopped this interpretation. I'll let you research this on your own.

What this gives you is commercial quality, up to 5 watts and better performance. Depending on the radio and if you have a ham license, you can also program and operate them in ham frequencies.

Using this approach, one could use a part 95 certified radio, program it to the GMRS frequencies (1-7 & 15-22), set the power level to up to 5 watts, use a remote antenna and talk to all the GMRS including the first 7 FRS channels totally legally. The only downside is that you cannot broadcast to FRS channels 8-14 (but you can listen). This should generally not be a problem for our application.

[dn010]

I bought 4 of these used on eBay once upon a time, I think I spent $10 on them. We used them when moving down to Florida from New York, 3 of us, 3 vehicles. Definitely did not make 36 miles worth of range and the batteries died pretty frequently but other than that they worked great and kept everyone alert to what was going on.

Google for "FRS/GMRS radio" and you'll get LOTS of photos in the image search or search Amazon.

Here is a link to Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Midland-GXT10...&keywords=gmrs

And here are some in their retail bubble packs.

Attachment 45122

[Chris4099]

Check out http://www.fm2way.com/frs.htm They have the Midland remote antenna radios for $40 + shipping.

Chris4099 ... is your problem as simple as a dirty PTT button?

Thanks for pointing that site out. I may direct my club there so they won't spend so much. Last time I Googled the part number, didn't get any other results. As for my issue, it's not working most of the time from the PTT button on both the unit itself and my headset. So I think it's something else.

[nkemp]

UPDATE 2017: FCC updated the FRS/GMRS rules earlier this year. This change had been in the works for quite a while and is good news.

In short:
- Going forward combo FRS/GMRS radios will not be allowed. They will be either FRS or GMRS as defined below
*--- FRS radios will be able to transmit up to 2W PEP and only have the FRS frequencies
*--- GMRS radios will be allowed to transmit up to 5W PEP and only have the GMRS frequencies
- FRS operation (transmission) does not require a license
- GMRS radio operation (transmission) does require a license (no test, simply pay the fee). Listening does not require a license regardless of the frequency.
- Digital communications (texting) will be allowed per the ruling's restrictions
- GPS capability will be allowed
- FRS & GMRS channels (frequencies) have been changed and increased

Read more at:
- ARRL article: http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-persona...art-95-devices
- Another good overview: https://bettersaferadio.com/fcc-adop...s-frs-cb-murs/

For the most part, the rules changed for the good. There is still some areas where there is frequency/power/user conflict but it helps clarify the issue relative to license and units. No longer will units be available that are FRS with GMRS capability. It will be one or the other.

This may open the market to more GMRS units that can have an external antenna. Under previous rulings, FRS had to have a fixed antenna and GMRS could have a detachable antenna (allowing for remote antenna mounting). As such, combo FRS/GMRS units could not have a removeable antenna.

What does this mean for us? GMRS is still the preferred device due to increased transmission power and an external antenna helps get it out instead of containing it within or SS shells. For those who stick with FRS, 2W PEP is better than the previous .5W. If I read it correctly, there are now 22 channels shared between FRS & GMRS. But remember that a 5W GMRS radio will have as much trouble receiving a .5 - 2W signal as a FRS radio (assuming the same receiver circuitry).

My recommendation ...
- Get the license required for the radio you operate
*--- If you use FRS at 2W or below, no license is required.
*--- 2-5 (50)W GMRS, get a GMRS license (one license covers you and your extended family)
*--- Ham frequencies, get a ham license

- Use radios FCC certified for that frequency
*--- There are radios on the market (mostly Chinese radios) that will transmit in the FRS/GMRS bands that are not certified for those frequencies and there are reasons why that is the case.

Disclaimer: I'm subject to being wrong without notice. Please let me know of errors and we can update this (actually it will be updated below due to forum editing restrictions).

EDIT:

So if you own a:
- A "bubble pack" FRS/GMRS radio that transmits at 2W or less, it is fundamentally a FRS radio and you can use it without a license or the potential problems previous FCC rules could cause.
- A 2-5W PEP bubble pack ( or other) combo FRS/GMRS radio is fundamentally a GMRS radio and requires a license.

As has been the case, enforcement has been a bigger problem caused by other licensed GMRS users than the FCC. You were more likely to be "turned in" than "caught" by FFC monitoring.

Also, this really opens up the debate as to GMRS call sign usage

[nkemp]

GMRS call sign usage. Per the FCC rules, call signs are to be used as follows. Not that the current rules text is clearer than the old text. Where I think there will be confusion is that a 2W user need not use call signs and a 2.1W user does need to use call signs. Who is keeping track of that?

Here is the rule:
95.1751 GMRS station identification.
Each GMRS station must be identified bytransmission of its FCC-assigned call sign at the endof transmissions and at periodic intervals duringtransmissions except as provided in paragraph (c) ofthis section. A unit number may be included afterthe call sign in the identification.
(a) The GMRS station call sign must betransmitted:
(1) Following a single transmission or a series oftransmissions; and,
(2) After 15 minutes and at least once every15 minutes thereafter during a series oftransmissions lasting more than 15 minutes.
(b) The call sign must be transmitted using voicein the English language or international Morse codetelegraphy using an audible tone.

[nkemp]

Look for the "GMRS-V1" GMRS radio. It is the first I've seen that complies with the new rules. Nice radio, good reviews, allows for an external antenna, ports for mic & speakers, potential to power from the car and other accessories. And reasonably priced.

BTW ...GMRS licenses are now 10 years duration.