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Thread: What kind/brand of coolant do you use?

  1. #41
    Senior Member dhaney's Avatar
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    I forgot, one other thing... I run silicone hoses, for those not doing so, you are doing yourself a disservice.

    Most new cars use them and also use long life coolant. I have a 2006 Xttera... still has factory coolant and factory hoses at 177k. Still runs as cool as ever.

    With silicone I should never get a leak. But if I do, yes you can run water in the system... you just need to flush it out and clean the system before recharging with Evans....

    Just an fyi... I've been around Deloreans longer than most... Vin 3254 has been in my family since a month before BTTF made the car famous in 1985...

    Dan
    Vin 3254 & 4770

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  2. #42
    Senior Member DMCVegas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhaney View Post
    I've researched this for more than a year. The coolant runs hotter because it displaces more heat than normal coolant.
    With all due respect, that makes positively no sense whatsoever. In fact, that defies physics.

    If this coolant was MORE efficient at heat transference, then that would actually mean decreased temperatures of the coolant returning from the radiator upfront. When that happens, the Thermostat would simply reduce coolant flow out of the engine in order to maintain the proper internal core temperature of the engine in order to ensure proper burning of the fuel for emissions & to avoid long-term damage. Which means that you wouldn't actually see variations in cylinder head temperatures at all. You would see a reduced flow rate as the coolant was forced to remain inside of the engine longer in order to prevent it from over-cooling the engine, but the internal temps would remain the same. That is what the job of the Thermostat is. When they're higher, that actually means that it's functioning far less efficient than regular antifreeze.

    Increased cylinder head temperatures means that the coolant is NOT functioning properly because it is failing to expel the heat quickly.


    Quote Originally Posted by dhaney View Post
    I am convinced most Deloreans are at a point in age/mileage where block rot is going to be a major consern, I hope to find a solution.
    "Block Rot" is not caused by simply by what type of coolant used though. To be clear, you must understand that there are two specific types of Block Rot on the PRV that can occur, and they have decidedly different reasons for occurring.

    Internal Rot
    Internal corrosion of the PRV engine is due to electrolysis caused by battery tenders in storage. When connecting a battery to a tender, instead of connecting the leads directly to the terminals in the battery compartment, and especially disconnecting the battery entirely, some people instead have been found to connect leads to the Positive Post in the engine compartment, and then ground the system to the engine instead. Which introduces a nice electrical charge directly into the engine, and corrodes the aluminum water passages.

    External Rot
    On the topside of the engine we have the infamous "Valley of Doom" which sits right below the intake manifold. The problem there is that over time you can get silt, dirt, and dead leaves that will fill up the indents between the cast ribs of the block. When leaves and vegetation decompose, they lower the pH value of whatever water, or other muddy slurry they're in. Which again causes corrosion of the aluminum.


    But even if we didn't consider all of that, the fact that coolant in and of itself has nothing to do with Block Rot, there still is no real explanation of any benefits to this coolant. Except to the guy selling this stuff.

    Silicone Hoses are great. I recommend them too. But the problem here isn't with the hoses. It's with the fact that this stuff can negatively react with the aluminum and can actually cause the very problem that you're trying to avoid. This is pure glycol, and is not at ALL the normal "long life" coolants found elsewhere that other manufacturers use. Those are Hybrid Organic Acid Technology coolants.

    I just don't want to see you throw away good money on this.


    Quote Originally Posted by dhaney View Post
    With silicone I should never get a leak. But if I do, yes you can run water in the system... you just need to flush it out and clean the system before recharging with Evans....

    Which then unnecessarily adds about another $250 to $300 to the cost of a repair with no gains to be had.


    Quote Originally Posted by dhaney View Post
    Just an fyi... I've been around Deloreans longer than most... Vin 3254 has been in my family since a month before BTTF made the car famous in 1985...
    And again, with all due respect, that means what?
    Robert

    Wake me when hockey season returns...

  3. #43
    Delorean Guru
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    Actually the coolant plays a role in "block rot" at least the internal kind. If you have old coolant and it becomes to acidic, it will attack the metals it is in direct contact with. You will see examples of that when you get pinholes at the ends of the aluminum pipes, the first sign. I agree battery tenders and other chargers should NEVER be left on continuously for several reasons, electrolysis being one of them. Even if you found a "better" coolant, one that can hold more BTU's per Lb, you would then see other limitations like the capacity of the water pump, the size of the radiator, etc. Unfortunately there is no "Magic in a Bottle", no matter what anyone may claim. That is not to say there aren't other materials that can hold more BTU's and function as a coolant. Liquid sodium is VERY good till you consider it's other characteristics like corrosiveness, explosive contact with air, toxicity and such. Then you will understand why we use what we use and accept it's limitations. Also consider that the metals the motor is made of expand as they get hot. All of the "running clearances" like piston ring gaps, bearings, and such were set so as to be minimized at operating temperature which is 180 degrees F. If the motor was to get hotter they would overexpand and the motor will seize up. Lower temps and the gaps don't close so you get leakage, blow-by, and excessive bearing clearances. According to the Laws of Thermodynamics the hotter the motor can run the more efficient it is BUT the materials are not made to go above a particular temperature before they lose too much of their strength and expand beyond the limits imposed. Another problem to consider is that the motor is made of differing materials and they all expand at different rates. All of this was considered when the motor was designed and made to operate at 180 degrees F. If you want to experiment with different coolants you must understand why we use what we use before you try something else.
    David Teitelbaum

  4. #44
    Senior Member dhaney's Avatar
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    David T...

    I understand all that and just because the Delorean community has embraced this doesn't mean anything...

    My statement wasn't directed at you... some comments were directed at me as though this were my first rodeo...


    I'm aware of all of the things you state the thing is... even running hotter Evans coolant doesn't run outside of normal operating tempuratures... and it can virtually never boil out!

    As stated, it's a test, if I don't like the added heat, I'll go back to regular coolant. I have seen 2 cars with block rot from under the valley... one a well cared for car the other not so much... I think in the next few years we are going to see more of it. That's the end goal in this experiment let's see if we can mitigate corrosion.

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  5. #45
    Senior Member DMCVegas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhaney View Post
    I'm aware of all of the things you state the thing is... even running hotter Evans coolant doesn't run outside of normal operating tempuratures... and it can virtually never boil out!k
    That is completely and utterly incorrect logic. Look, I get it. I understand the misguided marketing behind it it with the claim of, "If it's hotter, it must be because it has absorbed more BTUs, and therefore it's working better!". But that is just not true. If the coolant is running hotter, it is because it does not properly transfer heat as well. That is the key factor in which you absolutely MUST consider. Heat transfer accounts for both the absorption off heat from the sources of it inside of the engine itself, as well as the purging of it within the radiator. If the coolant is running hotter, that means that it is not properly doing it's job, and that also means that the engine is going to encounter heat damage. In order for this stuff to be compatible, you'd have to actually modify your entire cooling system to increase cooling capacity because the physical properties of the coolant have so radically changed.

    Water alone is a far superior fluid for cooling. However it functions in a much narrower temperature range as a fluid thanks to it's inherent physical properties.

    On the other hand, Glycol has a much wider operating temperature range, but also suffers from 3 major drawbacks:
    1. It does NOT transfer heat as well.
    2. It has a much higher viscosity which causes wear and tear on movable parts.
    3. It is flammable.


    The compromise is to combine Glycol and Water in equal 50/50 proportions in order to get the best of both worlds. The problem however is that when the two are combined, they form Glycolic Acid which destroys aluminum parts. So the further compromise here is that you also need to introduce corrosion inhibitors into the coolant solution to prevent the formation of the acid to protect the various metals inside.

    As Dave points out, those in inhibitors can wear out. Which is of course why you drain, flush, and refill your coolant system.

    Running the engine at higher temperatures is not a good idea. You're risking damage to the engine when the metal over-expands because it is operating at a higher temperature than it is intended for. That leads to head gasket failure. Failed head gaskets can introduce moisture into the system. Without any corrosion inhibitors, glycolic acid forms, and you've now created the very damage that you're trying to avoid. And if the fluid reaches those higher temperatures, it doesn't matter if it's liquid or steam flowing by. The damage is occurring.



    Look, I'm not trying to make this a personal fight in the least. I'm trying to help you here. I want you to actually do some real, unbiased research into this. Because this Evans "Waterless Coolant" stuff is garbage. I mean, hell, just look at their website. They claim that this stuff will, "Last the life of the system—no flushing or replacing required". That is a direct quote. That's a very open-ended statement with no actual definition of specifically just how long the lifespan of the "system" is, nor even what definitive "system" it is that they're talking about.

    But take a look then at their warranty page.
    http://www.evanscoolant.com/how-it-w...y-information/
    Never minding that they refuse to promise no damage to your engine and refuse to warranty any part of it directly, they only actually warranty the entire product for a measly 2 years. TWO YEARS! So much for that whole "life of the system" promise...

    And this stuff is supposed to be more economical? At current prices of around $40 for a flush and refill for the DeLorean's cooling system, and assuming we perform that maintenance like clockwork every 2 years, that would have cost you about $680 over 34 years. Assuming we did the same with this Evans stuff ever two years so that we could maintain our "warranty" with them, that price would soar to almost $4,000! And the thing is that according to Evans own warranty, you MUST flush their fluids out. Otherwise all of the benefits they claim to offer are not guaranteed. Need proof? It's right their in their warranty:

    "Claims that are a result of normal wear and tear, accident, improper installation of any part, manufacturer defect, improper use of Evans Coolant, or failure to properly maintain the cooling system, as outlined herein or by the manufacturer."

    That means that if the manufacturer of whatever car you pour this crap into states that you're supposed to replace the coolant, Evans demands that you do the same according to their product guidelines.

    Listen, man. I'm not trying to make this personal. I don't want this to be personal. What I want is for you to have a positive experience with your car, and this just isn't going to provide it. You're risking the mechanical integrity of your car. If you don't believe me, do some actual, unbiased research into all of this. Reading an advertisement or listening to a sales pitch is just not research. Just like that anti-boiling over claim. Exactly how is that a good thing? I keep seeing this claim, but no explanation for it.
    Robert

    Wake me when hockey season returns...

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    Distilled water and water wetter. This supplies max cooling.

    Steve
    yes and... RedLine says in their Water Wetter tech info sheet Use Directions (attached) that the a/c can freeze water in your heater core, so a 20% antifreeze mix is recommended. The anticorrosive properties of Water Wetter are outlined on this sheet and are impressive.

    DMC says the cooling system holds about 16 quarts total. (attached) This works out to:


    1. Pre-mix 3.2 Quarts of 100% "Name Brand" (per DMCH, attached) Green Antifreeze with 1 Gallon of Distilled Water and 1 Bottle of Water Wetter. This makes 2 Gallons of a muddy sort of 50/50 mix. Add to engine.
    2. Fill the Balance of about 2 more Gallons of Distilled Water (till expansion tank 1/2-full, of course)

    RedLine recommends an additional bottle of Water Wetter every 15,000 for corrosion protection of aluminum, and
    DMCH recommends a coolant flush every 2 yrs/15,000 miles. So just flush and repeat to satisfy everyone.

    https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/f...ech%20Info.pdf
    http://support.delorean.com/kb/a34/cooling-system.aspx

  7. #47
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    Flushing every 2 years is wasteful. My recommendation is to test every year for PH and strength. Drain, flush and refill every 5 years mainly because the additives package contained within the permanent anti-freeze must be replenished. For cars not subjected to freezing temperatures can get by with slightly less than a 50/50 mix. Make sure you do not use hard water or demineralization can occur and block the radiator.
    David Teitelbaum

  8. #48
    EFI'd dn010's Avatar
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    This thread is from 2016...
    -----Dan B.

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