Pinball machines

[DMCVegas]

Also if you get interested in a specific game try and find one you can play for a while to see if you like the way it plays. Some games are tons of fun, some just look good and play horrible.

That raises a question for me. Can the difficulty of a pinball machine be adjusted by the operator if they tamper with the leveling of the machine to alter the playing field's characteristics?

Arguably the most frustrating machine I've ever played was Jurassic Park. I've played 2 different machines, and each time it seemed like the "Raptor Pit" lane would just kick the ball perfectly into the drain where the flippers could not touch it. Just wondering if that was a design flaw with the table, or a shifty operator.

[Jonathan]

David T. --> Not trying to be an ass, but do you even read what people write before getting on your soap box to tell us all about what you already had in mind to say and just had to get it out regardless???

Sorry, that's more than a pinball exclusive comment and has bothered me for some time.

Anywho...

One of the reasons I was looking into getting a Highspeed 2 machine is because I enjoy playing it in real life. And the nostalgic aspect of enjoying those machines as a kid too. I understand there are newer machines with fancier playfields and whatnot, but that's not why I was interested in this particular one. And I'm surely not going to invest in a pinball machine, especially if I only get one to start, if it's one that other people think is great or a good investment, but I don't enjoy it. C'mon Dave, we're on a DeLorean forum. Do you think many of us give a sh!t what the masses do and don't just go ahead and do what we enjoy in spite of what's popular? Your line of thinking might make sense on the Toyota Corolla forum maybe...

Having brought up the video game simulation though, the one thing that is remarkable about the machines they've emulated is that they all come with elaborate "how to play" instructions that go over every last detail of the game and all modes and how to activate all those modes and earn the most points... and all of those instructions with the imagery of the pinball machine front and centre with arrows and graphics showing you where and how. That part is fantastic I might add.

The physics on the games are mostly good, but some tables have flaws and they are sometimes in this weak flipper end thing where they don't work the way they should. The tables even have some faults or glitches from real life recreated, which is neat but annoying.

The games are good, yes, but no substitute for the real machine. They're also a miniscule amount of the cost of the real machine taking up room in your house. Real DeLoreans aren't cheap either, but then you already know that. I mean, we could all just drive the DeLorean on the latest Gran Turismo game for PlayStation and skip all this real life nonsense though, right? That would be just silly, wouldn't it Dave? No sillier than thinking any of us consider an arcade pinball game the same as a real one though, right?

[David T]

David T. --> Not trying to be an ass, but do you even read what people write before getting on your soap box to tell us all about what you already had in mind to say and just had to get it out regardless???

Sorry, that's more than a pinball exclusive comment and has bothered me for some time.

Anywho...

One of the reasons I was looking into getting a Highspeed 2 machine is because I enjoy playing it in real life. And the nostalgic aspect of enjoying those machines as a kid too. I understand there are newer machines with fancier playfields and whatnot, but that's not why I was interested in this particular one. And I'm surely not going to invest in a pinball machine, especially if I only get one to start, if it's one that other people think is great or a good investment, but I don't enjoy it. C'mon Dave, we're on a DeLorean forum. Do you think many of us give a sh!t what the masses do and don't just go ahead and do what we enjoy in spite of what's popular? Your line of thinking might make sense on the Toyota Corolla forum maybe...

Having brought up the video game simulation though, the one thing that is remarkable about the machines they've emulated is that they all come with elaborate "how to play" instructions that go over every last detail of the game and all modes and how to activate all those modes and earn the most points... and all of those instructions with the imagery of the pinball machine front and centre with arrows and graphics showing you where and how. That part is fantastic I might add.

The physics on the games are mostly good, but some tables have flaws and they are sometimes in this weak flipper end thing where they don't work the way they should. The tables even have some faults or glitches from real life recreated, which is neat but annoying.

The games are good, yes, but no substitute for the real machine. They're also a miniscule amount of the cost of the real machine taking up room in your house. Real DeLoreans aren't cheap either, but then you already know that. I mean, we could all just drive the DeLorean on the latest Gran Turismo game for PlayStation and skip all this real life nonsense though, right? That would be just silly, wouldn't it Dave? No sillier than thinking any of us consider an arcade pinball game the same as a real one though, right?

Yes and no. Sometimes my posting of comments overlap and I wind up repeating what someone has already posted. Sometimes I do it to emphasis a point too. Yes, you can adjust a LOT of settings on the newer machines. On the old ones you can play with the level to make the game faster or slower.
You can set the # and amount of tilt. You can adjust the way the game adds points and awards bonus's. You can set bonus levels. The quality control on pins is not all that great, they are all hand built and low volume and each one is a little different. Then, over the years, parts get replaced and not always with the correct replacement parts. For instance one flipper can be a little faster or stronger than another. Or a button feels different from pin to pin. Yes, some games are set up so the ball will go SDTD (Straight Down The Drain) and you can't stop it with the flippers unless you slam the side of the machine. Each pin has it's own personality which you can learn only after a LOT of playing. I suggest you do not buy a pin just because you played that particular one for hours when you were young. Go to a pin show and play a bunch and find one you enjoy. You will be surprised how your taste has changed and that machine you loved isn't quite the way you remember it. BUT if you have a large budget and a lot of room go for it as long as it won't be the only one.

[driveintim]

That raises a question for me. Can the difficulty of a pinball machine be adjusted by the operator if they tamper with the leveling of the machine to alter the playing field's characteristics?

Arguably the most frustrating machine I've ever played was Jurassic Park. I've played 2 different machines, and each time it seemed like the "Raptor Pit" lane would just kick the ball perfectly into the drain where the flippers could not touch it. Just wondering if that was a design flaw with the table, or a shifty operator.

Most games can have the slope of the play field adjusted to make it faster or slower. Also software on new games have options to make it harder or easier to get extra ball or free game. Games can be out of level side to side making the ball roll more to one side or the other. My experience with operators they want you to keep spending money. Games that are rigged cause people to quit spending money on them. In most cases they want you to get hooked on a game and keep spending money on it.

[Nicholas R]

That raises a question for me. Can the difficulty of a pinball machine be adjusted by the operator if they tamper with the leveling of the machine to alter the playing field's characteristics?

Arguably the most frustrating machine I've ever played was Jurassic Park. I've played 2 different machines, and each time it seemed like the "Raptor Pit" lane would just kick the ball perfectly into the drain where the flippers could not touch it. Just wondering if that was a design flaw with the table, or a shifty operator.

Yes you can adjust nearly every setting. That's really interesting about JP. I've owned two Jurassic Park machines and on factory default settings, when the raptor pit is triggered, the ball saver is activated for something like 3-5 seconds to prevent this exact thing from happening. That way if you loose the ball because of the raptors it will give it right back. I suppose if it was on location somewhere, they may have turned the raptor ball save off to drain more balls (cheap trick). I always keep all of my machines on factory default settings as it is (for the most part) the standard within the pinball community, and the easiest way to compare scores against others. I could set my machines to give jackpots and extra balls like candy, but obviously it wouldn't make my high score at all comparable to anyone elses.

Among the more popular are Monopoly, Playboy, Harley, and Adams Family. Of course they will cost more but they are worth more when you go to sell. Others like HS2 are not worth all that much because it is not as popular.

What??? Based on what?? Nobody would argue the Addams Family, but Monopoly? Playboy? Harley Davidson? These may be your favorites, but they hardly represent the popularity of the market. High Speed II is easily a more popular machine than those three. I can think of about 50 machines more popular within the Pinball Market than any of those three. Attack from Mars, Medieval Madness, Twilight Zone, Star Trek TNG, Monster Bash, Funhouse, Cirqus Voltaire, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Indiana Jones, lord the list goes on...

Looking at the IPDB (pinball database) ranking of the top 300 machines, the most popular of those three is (the original 1978 version of) Playboy at #198, then Monopoly at #218 (keep in mind that High Speed 2 is ranked at #19). Neither version of Harley is even on the list, and having owned one (the newer chrome edition) I can say its for good reason. The theme may be appealing to Harley lovers but the gameplay is very shallow and gets boring very quickly; didn't last long in my collection. IPDB Top 300 list: http://www.ipdb.org/lists.cgi?anonym...ss+anonymously

Pinside on the other hand ranks Monopoly slightly higher at #172, the 1978 version of Playboy at #198, and the newer version of Harley at #290. This list ranks HSII a little lower at #45. Pinside Top list: https://pinside.com/pinball/top-100

[David T]

My information was a lot less formal than your rankings. I spoke at length with a company that re-imported pins and those games were very popular for them in terms of sales. I never said all of them were great but as a general rule, the more modern the game the more popular. I do agree the H/D game is not a very good one but it has a large collectible following because of the subject. Like the BTTF game. Another thing to consider is some areas of the country have differing tastes, in some areas some games are more popular than in others. Every game has at least one significant gimmick, the one in H/D is the vibration like a real motorcycle. Kind of lame IMHO. Another point, only in the newer electronic machines can you make a lot of adjustments, the older electro-mechanical relay type machines about all you can do is adjust the tilt and the level. The newest ones have a dot matrix display, the earlier machines (like BTTF) only have an alpha-numeric display. Another way to tell how popular a game is is by pricing. The most popular games tend to be the more expensive ones, the newer ones.

[FABombjoy]

That raises a question for me. Can the difficulty of a pinball machine be adjusted by the operator if they tamper with the leveling of the machine to alter the playing field's characteristics?

On many machines, especially near the outlanes, you can adjust the location of bumpers to increase of decrease the chances of a drain.

Leveling probably not as much. If the level is off the game either becomes unplayable or boring. That's one of my complaints about some pinball shows. People bring in a row of machines but don't level them accurately. You end up with games where the ball just sort of browses the playfield like a grocery shopper waiting for their deli number to be called.

[David T]

On many machines, especially near the outlanes, you can adjust the location of bumpers to increase of decrease the chances of a drain.

Leveling probably not as much. If the level is off the game either becomes unplayable or boring. That's one of my complaints about some pinball shows. People bring in a row of machines but don't level them accurately. You end up with games where the ball just sort of browses the playfield like a grocery shopper waiting for their deli number to be called.

The pin must be leveled in TWO planes, side-to-side, and front to back. If it is not level side to side it can be unplayable. The level front to back can change the speed at which the ball is played. While all pins have a recommended angle some operators make it more to speed up the game so it gets over quicker so theoretically more games can be played and it is harder to win any points or extra balls. You are right about shows, A lot of operators don't take the time or effort to make sure the game is properly set up so it can be played correctly. I have been to shows where you can't even plug some pins in because the cord is too short or there are not enough outlets. You have to bring your own extension cord and power strip! I guess you should bring your own wrenches and level! On most games you really can't adjust things on the playfield much except with the software. Maybe on some of the older pins.

[dustybarn]

Don't overlook old electromechanical machines. They can be a lot of fun to play, are usually pretty cheap, and aren't THAT hard to work on. There's no messing about with blown circuit boards and custom IC's.

[zimvsdib]

Just noticed this thread.
I currently have 4 machines in my office all pre DMD. One EM machine. The 80s era games are pretty easy to work on and can be just as good as new pins.
Fathom is a favorite of mine.
I've picked up a few machines for free or 100 bucks from craigslist, some were thrashed and need a lot of work but one just needed fuses. All works of art in my opinion. It's to bad the industry is on life support.