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Thread: Supercar Megabuild - Delorean reborn link

  1. #21
    Senior Member DMCVegas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    There is a difference between "is it good design" and "I would buy that design".
    Very true. As a "prototype" design, those rarely ever make it into production. It's always a eclectic demonstration of design cues from which you see what people respond to, and what they do not. Along with what is feasible and what isn't, and you just distill everything down. So aside the aesthetics aspect of things, it's why I'm not that judgmental about the car here in terms of how it looks. For me, it's the fake "reality show" thing that kills it for me. Speaking of which....


    Quote Originally Posted by SamHill View Post
    It did come across as very contrived. You'd have to be naive not to see that. These reality shows are running a model that was innovative in 2000, but nobody anymore is really fooled by these scenes that are obviously fake as a three dollar bill. The shame is that the concept of the show is good: maybe a wealthy man wants to drive a classic car, but wants it to ride and handle like a modern car, so they go to work. Then after I saw the actual show, the only thing I was left with is that I don't want to watch any further episodes because it's to edifying entertainment what Frosted Flakes are to a real breakfast.

    A modern Delorean doesn't need restyling, gizmos and interior mood lighting. It needs reliability and a frame and underbody that can accommodate a more powerful engine pushed inboard and down.
    We haven't always seen eye-to-eye on many subjects, but were' in total agreement here. For myself, there is a huge difference between an educational "how-to" show, and "reality TV". The biggest example of this hit me one day watching an episode of "This Old House" on PBS. Owners are remodeling an entire kitchen, and to start things they call in a demolition crew. A team of people come in, and carefully remove all of the appliances, sink, and unbolt the cabinetry from the walls. Everything is stacked up outside, and they explain that the reason for this is not only to spend less time on a cleanup, but because they can sell the removed items to other renovators doing budget remodels of older homes. Compare that to any other "reality" show about house-flipping where some foppish goober prances around with a sledge hammer he can barely lift, and just starts randomly knocking holes in everything.

    That is what kills me about this. If this had been presented as a potential prototype by itself, I would have been very impressed. They could say that a touchscreen was a potential mock-up, and the lack of functionality could have been presented as a concept. Which is perfectly fine. But when you have, and I would say outright lies presented by the show here, that takes away from the integrity of the entire low volume production project. "Wiring into the electrics" means nothing more than they plugged an iPad into the cigarette charger. It doesn't mean that the environmental controls were actually computerized in any way. The same with the doors with how they were presented. While I am encouraging and congratulatory when someone completes a DIY installation of a Wings-a-loft kit to pop their doors open, I feel it is in very poor taste to misrepresent that as some sort of fully automated door kit with a comparison to Tesla's Falcon Doors. Purposefully misleading people by showing the full operating range of the Tesla design, and then oh-so-conveniently cutting away so as to refuse to show the DeLorean doors closing by themselves. Hint: it's because they cannot. Even worse when you start taking credit for a kit which you did not design. As though door poppers never existed on DeLoreans before this show.

    Most of all, yes, as much as even I am an ardent supporter of the PRV & K-Jetronic, I do recognize we must keep all available options open to improve upon the car. The mechanical engineering needs to be improved. Aside from better suspension, we need a better drivetrain in order to improve the reliability, serviceability, and performance of the car to keep them on the road. Aesthetics are great, but the engineering & performance needs to improve where it can. Speaking of which...


    Quote Originally Posted by Farrar View Post
    I thought "Supercar" meant a vehicle with a powerful drivetrain, so I was expecting to see an upgraded engine/trans. combo. instead of a quick re-skin. TBH, though, I expected disaster as soon as they said "let's make this iconic car look more modern." (Translation in my head: "Let's take this classic car, destroy what makes it classic, and make it look more trendy.") That's when I turned the sound off and just fast-forwarded to the finished product.
    Quote Originally Posted by David T View Post
    I would not expect a "supercar" drivetrain. That can raise the cost too much. It will probably out perform the original but it won't be a Lambo. Choices are limited because it has to be rear wheel drive.
    A "supercar", like design cues, is still an arbitrary, if not abstract concept that is dependent upon what comparisons we hold it to. I mean, the Venturi Atlantique a very similar drivetrain as ours with an updated PRV engine & Renault UNx transaxle. Just shy of 300 bhp, it was able to squeeze out 0-60 times of 4.9 seconds, and is considered a French "supercar".

    Yes, we absolutely need an improved drivetrain, and apparently that is a goal for DMCH to make available whatever they put into this new vehicle become available as a kit for our own legacy cars. While I personally applaud them for that, who knows what metrics the public will consider as a proper upgrade worthy of the car. But no matter what upgrades occur for the drivetrain, appearance packages, or whatever, the image of the car should be one of careful refinement and strategized engineering. Not something which was haphazardly rushed and carelessly slapped together in a gameshow atmosphere on "reality tv". I'm not saying that it was, because I don't believe a single thing I've seen on this show episode. But the image of yet another vehicle being rushed into production is what is being conveyed here, and one that we don't need.

    I don't blame DMCH entirely 100% for this, because obviously they did not edit the show themselves. But they did get involved for this cheap publicity. This just feels like the biggest mistake since refusing the car to have a cameo in Grant Theft Auto: Vice City.
    Robert

    Board Member, DeLorean Owners Association



    Recording Secretary

  2. #22
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    Indeed the show was too 'dramatic'...no substance, really. At least on shows like Bitchin' Rides you get to see more of the actual process (though still a fair amount of sillyness)..But this is what networks think people want to see...i mean, look at the changes being made to Wheeler Dealers (less of the actual process and more of just the flash). After all, who wants to actually see the work that goes into restoring a frame...lol

    I did notice the use of the Wings Aloft and found that to be in poor taste to not even acknowledge it, even in credits.

    I'd prolly never have see this one if not posted here, cause as a rule I dont watch this kind...and I'll prolly not watch another episode of that show...lol
    Rob Depew
    Tacoma, Wa
    '81 DeLorean 4877 Grey, Auto, 4 wheels
    The Ressurection of 4877......
    Now Accepting Donations to get her back on the road

  3. #23
    Senior Member rickjames8's Avatar
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    This was a great video to watch as I always thought one of the first things I'd try to do once I got my DeLorean was to update the front and rear fascias. I figured I'd remove the old ones, make a mold, then make a fiberglass one to modify while retaining the originals for resale. In the end, the original look has grown on me, and the amount of time I calculated would go in to such a project didn't seem worth it anymore. Now that I've seen the result, I can say I'm even happier that I didn't invest the time. I can't say I think it looks all that much better. It looks like a car from the early 80s with new lights. I think 90% of the effect could be achieved by using modern 4x6 lights.

    I've also wondered if it'd be possible to upgrade the grill with this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/M/311761767893 for a more modern look. Anyone have an A4 they can measure?

    -Rick

  4. #24
    Junior Member GCMW Deloreans's Avatar
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    Proto Type

    I wonder if that proto type car is going to be for sale. I could put it next to Proto 1 in my Delorean showroom.
    Mike Fiore
    Gulfcoast Motorworks, Delorean Division
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  5. #25
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    The front and rear bumpers/fascias have been destroyed. The car has had it's oem/stock front and rear bumpers refitted, and they have been vinyl wrapped to match the rest of the bodywork.

    As I understand it, the modern dash instrumentation and centre console was just a mock-up for show, it didn't actually work / control any functions on the car.
    Last edited by MikeWard; 06-20-2017 at 10:51 AM.
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  6. #26
    Formally hmm252000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lwanmtr View Post
    And yup...once you put a license plate in there that cute dmc layout is broken
    I thought of this right away. Pretty much every country in the world requires a rear license plate which would cover the M. So all these new DeLoreans will say DC on the back! Hopefully they ditch that part of the design.

  7. #27
    Delorean Guru
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    Because it is a prototype that is just another change you can expect. I thought it was cute too but also realized some accommodation will have to be made for the rear plate. Same problem in the front. Many jurisdictions still require a front plate. Especially now with plate readers at toll booths.
    David Teitelbaum

  8. #28
    Senior Member DrJeff's Avatar
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    So what are the engineering/parts design parameters of the 'new' DeLorean.

    Overall Engineering Design Guidance
    - Keep stainless panels, doors (which also means keeping windscreen)
    - New parts for anything vinyl, rubber, foam, compressed board, plywood
    - No DMC logo changes
    - Keep updates to modern driver expectations (don't update parts just because better is now available)
    - No safety updates unless required for road worthy approval (e.g. no airbags)
    - Accommodate new engine/transmission with minimal frame changes (if any)

    Included unchanged
    - stainless body panels
    - doors

    Unchanged or Slightly Modified
    - fiberglass body (small changes consistent with existing body panels)
    - sub-frame (changes to accommodate alternative motors and transmissions)
    - door box and torsion bars
    - airbox
    - ac system

    Modest Updates
    - Front Fascia
    - Rear Fascia
    - Brakes
    - Front suspension (pseudo-wishbone adaptions)
    - ac panel and headlamp switches
    - window & defroster switches

    Unlikely Updated
    - Front suspension (full wishbone design)

    Very Likely Replaced
    - Engine wiring harness and ECUs (and harnesses that it interfaces into)
    - Engine
    - Transmission
    - ac compressor
    - alternator
    - radio and sound system

    Very Likely Redesign
    - side passenger cabin windows
    - front fascia
    - headlamps
    - rear fascia
    - tail lights

    So the show (as painful as a neck tattoo to watch) was on the money. Apart from the vinyl wrap, they modified the fascias and related parts, and updated the cabin. They probably missed the mark on the cabin in that (IMHO) they went "modern" where "modern retro" was probably a better fit for the exterior.

    LED mood lighting - what?

    Steve's reaction... probably not all that different from everyone else's when they will see the new DeLorean...

    Jeff
    Jeff
    #6313 (lic: DMC-EV Texas), 25k miles, 100% leather, touchpad, 100% LED, dimmable LED dash, remote door lock & Elvis mod, all A/C vents in kneepads, wedgectomy, escutcheon velcro fix, GM door chimer, custom arm rest/storage/controls...

  9. #29
    Senior Member DMCVegas's Avatar
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    Other than what has been pieced together for the underbody & a new drivetrain option, I'm pretty sure that no other options have been confirmed per se. Certainly the past experiments with interiors and GPS items have been good indicators of possibilities though.

    The one thing that is for certain is that there is a fine line DMCH does have to walk here. They have to ensure major redesigns for either engineering or aesthetics don't violate the conditions of the law under which these vehicles can be produced. Potentially from a liability standpoint by using DMC's original engineering designs which they are not responsible for, but more so thanks to this little inclusion of Section 5:

    The Secretary shall have the authority to revoke an existing registration based on a failure to comply with requirements set forth in this subsection or a finding by the Secretary of a safety-related defect or unlawful conduct under this chapter that poses a significant safety risk. The registrant shall be provided a reasonable opportunity to correct all deficiencies, if such are correctable based on the sole discretion of the Secretary.

    Section 7 has a subsection which then goes on to define a "Replica Motor Vehicle" as:

    is intended to resemble the body of another motor vehicle that was manufactured not less than 25 years before the manufacture of the replica motor vehicle

    That is a tricky subject there. Because how far can you take the modifications of external design cues of a particular vehicle model before it ceases to resemble what it actually is? Not the platform, but the specific model itself? Forget that you know the vehicle is a DeLorean, but remember what a DeLorean looks like. Does the car from this video still look like a DeLorean enough that you would instantly recognize it? If not, that could be grounds for loosing the entire exemption.
    Robert

    Board Member, DeLorean Owners Association



    Recording Secretary

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMCVegas View Post
    Does the car from this video still look like a DeLorean enough that you would instantly recognize it? If not, that could be grounds for loosing the entire exemption.
    Thats a big one right there. If they have to be considered replicas, then I think those mods would kill it, because its no longer using the original factory setup....Would it be recognised right away as a Delorean? I think it would after a moment of looking, but it would look like a customized car.

    One thing I will say about it...even with the bits that I didnt like, it still looked 1000 times better than that hideous gawdawful thing that Will I Am had done to his..
    Rob Depew
    Tacoma, Wa
    '81 DeLorean 4877 Grey, Auto, 4 wheels
    The Ressurection of 4877......
    Now Accepting Donations to get her back on the road

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