Brake issues...advice needed

[opethmike]

The bottle with a check valve IS garbage. (I can't believe I am agreeing with Vegas). They're cheaply built, they never fit quite right, and they fall apart as soon as you use them.

You would know that, Dave, if you actually worked on cars and didn't just quote things you read someplace.

[David T]

The bottle with a check valve IS garbage. (I can't believe I am agreeing with Vegas). They're cheaply built, they never fit quite right, and they fall apart as soon as you use them.

You would know that, Dave, if you actually worked on cars and didn't just quote things you read someplace.

I can't understand why you continue to say I don't work on cars? Just because you haven't been able to find a good tool and don't know how to use it doesn't translate into you making a statement that I don't work on cars. Look up Phoenix brake tools.

[NckT]

http://www.gunson.co.uk/product/G4062

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz8t6ZkVSQM

Pressure bleeder. Fits the master cylinder reservoir and it took me an hour and a half last year to flush the fluid out. Not expensive and I flush the fluid every 2 years from when I overhauled all the brakes from when I first got my car.

[Gruffalo]

Personally I prefer pressure bleeding from the calipers and up. That way you don't have to force gravity. Air bubbles like to travel upwards. On a few occasions with empty systems, that's that has been my only successful way. As a bonus you don't risk blowing up the reservoir.


2015 VW e golf
2005 BMW 120i
1987 Porsche 928 S4
1981 Delorean dmc-12
1980 Fiat bertone X1/9

[Gruffalo]

There is no need to spend $120 on a set of brake hoses. I have personally verified both front and rear brake hose cross references that can be ordered from Rockauto for less than $8.50 each.

Would you care to share the cross reference information please?

[DMCVegas]

(I can't believe I am agreeing with Vegas).

Seriously though, I hate those self-bleeder bottles. The magnets are garbage (particularly when they sit lower than the metal housing and you have to grind the damn thing flush to get a proper grip), and you better hope the hose doesn't pop-off lest it sprays fluid everywhere. Especially on your pads or shoes which you've then contaminated. Plus then you have the concern of still having bubbles escaping through the threads, as Dave pointed out. Which then leads to air going back into the system. Also, those check valves are great when you're working with clean fluid. Not so when you have dirt in the system that clogs them up.

Bleeder kits are cheap. If you build one yourself, it's less than $30. And with the exception of keeping them segregated for DOT3 vs. DOT4 use, it's a tool you can use over and over again on multiple cars. For club events, or other cars you own when you fabricate some additional adaptors.

Yeah, you don't over-pump the reservoir. About 13 PSI will do you just fine, and gives you like 20 or so seconds of fluid flow. Then you can witness the purging of bubbles and bad fluid first hand. Then you just go back and re-pressurize the bottle as needed. Doing this there is no risk of damaging the internal pistons on the M/C. The best part is a little trick for the reservoir adaptor. If you build your own, make sure you put a fitting onto the end of it that goes down into the reservoir. Then cut & deburr the end to match exactly with the MAX fluid level line inside. Once your work is done, lower your pressure tank BELOW the M/C, and then crack it open. What it'll do is siphon out the excess fluid and leave the perfect level behind.

Is there some "wasted" fluid? Yep. But there also are no funnels & tiny collection bottles involved. So you avoid spilling the fluid onto the floor, and especially all over the frame to destroy the epoxy. The price of an extra bottle or two of brake fluid to avoid that kind of damage is money well spent IMO.

Personally I prefer pressure bleeding from the calipers and up. That way you don't have to force gravity. Air bubbles like to travel upwards. On a few occasions with empty systems, that's that has been my only successful way. As a bonus you don't risk blowing up the reservoir.


2015 VW e golf
2005 BMW 120i
1987 Porsche 928 S4
1981 Delorean dmc-12
1980 Fiat bertone X1/9

The problem with that though is that the calipers are far dirtier than anything else in terms of grime & rust. Not to mention that there are far more intricate passages in the M/C that would be damaged by foreign objects. Also, you can push air bubbles down far easier than you can get the particulate matter to go up.

[Gruffalo]

Seriously though, I hate those self-bleeder bottles. The magnets are garbage (particularly when they sit lower than the metal housing and you have to grind the damn thing flush to get a proper grip), and you better hope the hose doesn't pop-off lest it sprays fluid everywhere. Especially on your pads or shoes which you've then contaminated. Plus then you have the concern of still having bubbles escaping through the threads, as Dave pointed out. Which then leads to air going back into the system. Also, those check valves are great when you're working with clean fluid. Not so when you have dirt in the system that clogs them up.

Bleeder kits are cheap. If you build one yourself, it's less than $30. And with the exception of keeping them segregated for DOT3 vs. DOT4 use, it's a tool you can use over and over again on multiple cars. For club events, or other cars you own when you fabricate some additional adaptors.

Yeah, you don't over-pump the reservoir. About 13 PSI will do you just fine, and gives you like 20 or so seconds of fluid flow. Then you can witness the purging of bubbles and bad fluid first hand. Then you just go back and re-pressurize the bottle as needed. Doing this there is no risk of damaging the internal pistons on the M/C. The best part is a little trick for the reservoir adaptor. If you build your own, make sure you put a fitting onto the end of it that goes down into the reservoir. Then cut & deburr the end to match exactly with the MAX fluid level line inside. Once your work is done, lower your pressure tank BELOW the M/C, and then crack it open. What it'll do is siphon out the excess fluid and leave the perfect level behind.

Is there some "wasted" fluid? Yep. But there also are no funnels & tiny collection bottles involved. So you avoid spilling the fluid onto the floor, and especially all over the frame to destroy the epoxy. The price of an extra bottle or two of brake fluid to avoid that kind of damage is money well spent IMO.





The problem with that though is that the calipers are far dirtier than anything else in terms of grime & rust.

Not if they're new.

you've got some valid points, though. But as a last resort reverse pressure bleeding has proven successful for me when nothing else works.

[David T]

Not if they're new.

you've got some valid points, though. But as a last resort reverse pressure bleeding has proven successful for me when nothing else works.

Reverse pressure bleeding is kind of a last resort type of procedure where you do not get good results any other way. On some systems it is the only effective way to bleed the air out. On Deloreans it is not necessary. If you find it necessary to reverse bleed on a Delorean you may have some bad hoses acting like check valves, preventing you from bleeding it any other way. Everyone has their preferred way to do this. Some of the factors are experience, what tools are available, and if there is an assistant nearby. I can see we aren't going to change many minds here, all I ask is to keep an open mind. A demonstration would be very useful. I can flush and bleed my Delorean in minutes once everything is set up like getting the wheels off, having all of the tools out and ready, etc.

[Gruffalo]

Reverse pressure bleeding is kind of a last resort type of procedure where you do not get good results any other way. On some systems it is the only effective way to bleed the air out.

Agreed! My point exactly

[opethmike]

I can see we aren't going to change many minds here, all I ask is to keep an open mind.

Hey pot, meet kettle.