EFI Conversion Questions.

[DMCVegas]

Now that I'm finally back in Vegas, I'm anticipating on wrenching on my car to get her back on the road, starting either this winter or next spring. The bad news is the price of K-Jetronic parts. Between the basic list of major parts I need, along with the tools I need for K-Jet, and a buffer for miscellaneous supplies and items I may have missed, I'm looking at around $3,000 to repair the stock fuel injection system.

So I'd like to look into an EFI conversion. Not just as potentially a cheaper alternative, but while I am comfortable with K-Jet, I've had too many problems with it and ethanol, and I'm admittedly a bit concerned with the pool of available replacement parts. Now I don't anticipate that this would be a complete "plug & play" conversion that doesn't require work. Reading the posts I understand about the work put in for fabrication, and most of all testing. I also am not in any hurry here to get the system running. But with that, I have some questions that I've not seen answered in the sticky threads, or the others I've browsed.

1. Is there any turn-key kit that is available yet?
I know that DPI has a conversion service, but it's $6K, and I'd have to ship the car off. I'd rather do this myself for both the savings, as well as the education from a hands-on experience. Not that I'm complaining, since I understand it would damn near be the same cost to have K-Jet repaired at a service center. But I like to DIY things.

2. What is the average cost of an EFI Conversion?
I have a target of $3K for K-Jet. Would EFI come in under that?

3. Which would be the preferred engine to perform an EFI Conversion on?
I would assume that the 3.0L PRV would be easier given that the manifold already has bungs for the injectors, and requires less fabrication. But am I wrong? Also, is there any reason that the 3.0 wouldn't be compatible with aftermarket exhausts like DPI's?

4. If no full kit is available, is there at least a complete list of what automotive parts are needed for the conversion?
Both parts, numbers, and available sources.

5. Does anyone who has an EFI conversion have tailpipe emissions readings?
I see the fuel maps and whatnot for tuning, but what I'm curious about is how clean the engines run since I would still be subject to emissions testing. Accordingly of course, I need to ensure the Evaporative emissions system is still in place, and I'll be running dual catalytic converters. But what about NO_x and CO₂ readings? Does anyone have any?

I've always liked K-Jet because I understood it, but I feel that it's time to finally retire the system and move on to something more modern, and more reliable since it doesn't have as many failure points. If I can move on, I sure as hell will.

Big thank you in advance to everyone.

[opethmike]

I'll answer what I can, but it's been 5 years since I did my conversion, so I'm a little rusty on some of the setup.

1. Outside of DPI's, there is nothing I am aware of. Most of us on here have used Megasquirt. It can be as easy or as difficult as you'd like depending on whether you get a pre-assembled ECU or not.

2. I spent approximately $2,000 on my conversion, and that was a bit on the high side since I purchased an assembled ECU, and an EFI ready Renault manifold from Martin Gutkowski.

3. I have no experience with the 3.0, but since everything is pretty much there already, I'm sure the setup would be a bit quicker. But the hardware isn't really the long part of the job; that would be the wiring and the tuning. The aftermarket exhausts will fit; people have done it.

4. Somewhere on this site I have a PDF detailing how I did my conversion that contains most of that information. You'll get to know diyautotune.com very well.

5. Sorry, I don't have a sniffer read out, so I can't help with this one.

[DMCVegas]

All good information to know. Thank you indeed.

There are a few questions I still have about the Z7X-711 & 715 3.0L engines. Little things like if the injector ports could handle alternative injectors, etc. I'm not too worried about emissions since unlike a static flow rate on a CIS injector or jet, I can manipulate the duty cycles of the electronic injectors.

I found your write-up and I'm still going over it. Very much appreciated! But let me ask you an honest question: After 5 years, what is your impression of your EFI system? Not just how much tinkering has it required of you, but how reliable has it been? Are you still happy with the conversion?

[opethmike]

All good information to know. Thank you indeed.

There are a few questions I still have about the Z7X-711 & 715 3.0L engines. Little things like if the injector ports could handle alternative injectors, etc. I'm not too worried about emissions since unlike a static flow rate on a CIS injector or jet, I can manipulate the duty cycles of the electronic injectors.

I found your write-up and I'm still going over it. Very much appreciated! But let me ask you an honest question: After 5 years, what is your impression of your EFI system? Not just how much tinkering has it required of you, but how reliable has it been? Are you still happy with the conversion?

Quite happy. Other than taking a while to get the tune right the first year I had it, I've had literally zero issues with it.

[dn010]

I too am quite happy with my conversion and I'd never go back to stock. I even sold my original engine that I was saving "just in case" I wanted to go back. I turn the key and go, the only issue I have is a slight stumble right when I start the engine cold, for about 10 seconds - fixable but I've just been too lazy to deal with it. Other than that, I am very comfortable with EFI, I am not concerned about breaking down and I don't even carry my laptop with me like I used to when I first did the conversion. As a bonus, there are far less points for fuel leaks, far more room, and many possibilities when it comes to tuning. You are able to pick and choose between different injectors [as long as they're EV1 or EV6], you're not limited to stock.

The 3.0 would be an easy conversion, you swap the lower crankcase and drop it in. For me, I had a 2.8 B280F from a Volvo 780 sitting so my conversion was very cheap, only the cost of the ECU, Ford EDIS, LC-2 and some random parts like a TPS, upgraded injectors and a MAF [MAF isn't needed if you don't want to base your fueling off of an airflow sensor, I did and it saved me from having to tune a fuel table]. If you're not able to fabricate parts then you're looking at more cost (Crank sensor brackets, I made a custom ECU tray to replace the stock ECU tray behind the driver seat, etc.) My car has much more power compared to the prior engine. It runs much smoother than the odd-fire original engine. While there might not be hundreds here, there are quite a few of us who can help you through a conversion. I do have a write-up and wiring diagram created, but it's on my laptop and hasn't been posted to the forum yet - I'll look into this in the next few days if you're interested in it.

I cannot comment on cost, I am pretty sure for me it was under $1000 but again, I had almost everything I needed. I can provide a list of what sensors or parts I used along with numbers and where you can get them, as Mike said - DIY was a big shopping experience, but also eBay was a source of some parts. I too do not have exhaust readings, all I have is what the ECU provides me as far as readings from the O2 sensor.

[opethmike]

So, in short - you won't regret it! And if something does go wrong, it is SO much easier to diagnose. Just hook up your laptop, open your tuning program, and you'll see right away which sensor isn't working.

[DMCVegas]

First off, I cannot thank everyone enough for the responses. You've no idea how much they are appreciated!

Quite happy. Other than taking a while to get the tune right the first year I had it, I've had literally zero issues with it.

That's one of the big things I was curious about. I've always been a big booster of K-Jet, but the last two years my car was on the road I started having lots of trouble with it when I reflect upon it. Just eating up the O-rings in the CPR, the diaphragm in the Accumulator, clogging/deteriorating injectors, and the fuel pump boot that just turned to mush. I've no idea if DMCH's all-in-one fuel pump would work with EFI given it's much higher pressures, but I definitely want to eliminate as much rubber and steel from the system as possible. I don't mind K-Jetronic, and it worked great for a long time. But as soon as I started to see Ethanol blends is when I started to have problems. We had MTBE before that with no issues.

Still yet though, seeing the lack of complaints popping up in the support threads here was something that really stood out to me.

The 3.0 would be an easy conversion, you swap the lower crankcase and drop it in. For me, I had a 2.8 B280F from a Volvo 780 sitting so my conversion was very cheap, only the cost of the ECU, Ford EDIS, LC-2 and some random parts like a TPS, upgraded injectors and a MAF [MAF isn't needed if you don't want to base your fueling off of an airflow sensor, I did and it saved me from having to tune a fuel table]. If you're not able to fabricate parts then you're looking at more cost (Crank sensor brackets, I made a custom ECU tray to replace the stock ECU tray behind the driver seat, etc.) My car has much more power compared to the prior engine. It runs much smoother than the odd-fire original engine. While there might not be hundreds here, there are quite a few of us who can help you through a conversion. I do have a write-up and wiring diagram created, but it's on my laptop and hasn't been posted to the forum yet - I'll look into this in the next few days if you're interested in it.

Ease of installation is what I'm shooting for. I'd rather spend more time troubleshooting and tuning that constantly fabricating. The big starting question of course if I opt for the 3.0L is where can I get a trigger ring at? Does someone already sell them? I do see that DPI sells an injector & fuel rail kit for the K-Jet heads.

Unless cost is prohibiting you, I'd suggest to get rid of the shaky odd-fire engine and go with the 3.0 or 2.8 even fire engine. If yours runs well, you can even sell it to recover at least $1K.

Again, the ease of simplicity is what I'm going for. I suppose that I do lose a bit of performance with even-fire given that there are no performance cams for those engines. But the higher compression, displacement, & better flowing heads should make up for that. If I wanted high performance, I'd look to turbos or an outright swap. For now a reliable NA engine suits me just fine.

When going for an even-fire swap, which would be more preferable? The 2.8L B280F from the Volvo 780, or the 3.0L Z7X-711/Z7X-715 from the Premier/Monaco? Even better question, has anyone successfully grafted the serpentine belt over to the DeLorean's accessories?

As of right now, I've got 2 complete PRVs, both from DeLoreans. One with a blown head gasket, and the other should be fine. Although it has a borked exhaust manifold stud that was drilled out resulting in a mangled hole from some past mechanic (so I doubt it'll ever work with a stock exhaust again). 1 complete K-Jet setup, a second setup only missing a WUR, 6 spare CIS Injectors, and 1 or two spare dummy bearing kits. Then of course whatever other leftover parts I have remaining after the swap.

Just to champion the stepper IAC cause again... because everybody needs to believe in something... tonight I started the tuning process and decided to get fancy idle control going.

I was able to find the IAC stepper lower & upper limits and had closed loop idle control running in about 4 minutes. BOOYAH!

And that's the kind of results I like to hear about, as well as the more advanced options you have as well. For the EFI conversion, I'd like to give myself about a year to get the actual conversion in place and completed while restoring the rest of the car and balancing work & school.

[dn010]

There are some conversions that still use the serpentine belt so that shouldn't be an issue. Also, DPI can grind the even-fire cams so there are "performance" options [http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?14...ght=even-fire].

I'm sure there are a few here also willing to help you out with the trigger ring as far as welding it on - shouldn't be a problem and they're available from DIYautotune or other places like eBay.

If I had a choice, I'd have gone with the 3.0 however I had the 2.8 sitting here so it was a no brainer. The two things I do not know about is if the 3.0 has cross bolted mains and if it has the oil cooler on. The mains aren't a big deal and I'm not sure if the oil cooler is either but I kept it installed when I swapped to my car. I will put a turbo on this engine IF I don't decide to swap to something else later on.

Lastly, don't stress about the fuel pump. Whether it is stock or DMCH all-in-one, EFI requires much less pressure than K-Jet.


EDIT: I forgot to add, as far as how well the heads flow - I don't know about the 3.0 but the 2.8 really needs to have the exhaust ports opened up. You can run the way it is but if you open up the ports it is a difference, at least I noticed a difference anyway.

First off, I cannot thank everyone enough for the responses. You've no idea how much they are appreciated!



That's one of the big things I was curious about. I've always been a big booster of K-Jet, but the last two years my car was on the road I started having lots of trouble with it when I reflect upon it. Just eating up the O-rings in the CPR, the diaphragm in the Accumulator, clogging/deteriorating injectors, and the fuel pump boot that just turned to mush. I've no idea if DMCH's all-in-one fuel pump would work with EFI given it's much higher pressures, but I definitely want to eliminate as much rubber and steel from the system as possible. I don't mind K-Jetronic, and it worked great for a long time. But as soon as I started to see Ethanol blends is when I started to have problems. We had MTBE before that with no issues.

Still yet though, seeing the lack of complaints popping up in the support threads here was something that really stood out to me.




Ease of installation is what I'm shooting for. I'd rather spend more time troubleshooting and tuning that constantly fabricating. The big starting question of course if I opt for the 3.0L is where can I get a trigger ring at? Does someone already sell them? I do see that DPI sells an injector & fuel rail kit for the K-Jet heads.




Again, the ease of simplicity is what I'm going for. I suppose that I do lose a bit of performance with even-fire given that there are no performance cams for those engines. But the higher compression, displacement, & better flowing heads should make up for that. If I wanted high performance, I'd look to turbos or an outright swap. For now a reliable NA engine suits me just fine.

When going for an even-fire swap, which would be more preferable? The 2.8L B280F from the Volvo 780, or the 3.0L Z7X-711/Z7X-715 from the Premier/Monaco? Even better question, has anyone successfully grafted the serpentine belt over to the DeLorean's accessories?

As of right now, I've got 2 complete PRVs, both from DeLoreans. One with a blown head gasket, and the other should be fine. Although it has a borked exhaust manifold stud that was drilled out resulting in a mangled hole from some past mechanic (so I doubt it'll ever work with a stock exhaust again). 1 complete K-Jet setup, a second setup only missing a WUR, 6 spare CIS Injectors, and 1 or two spare dummy bearing kits. Then of course whatever other leftover parts I have remaining after the swap.




And that's the kind of results I like to hear about, as well as the more advanced options you have as well. For the EFI conversion, I'd like to give myself about a year to get the actual conversion in place and completed while restoring the rest of the car and balancing work & school.

[Spittybug]

Now that I'm finally back in Vegas, I'm anticipating on wrenching on my car to get her back on the road, starting either this winter or next spring. The bad news is the price of K-Jetronic parts. Between the basic list of major parts I need, along with the tools I need for K-Jet, and a buffer for miscellaneous supplies and items I may have missed, I'm looking at around $3,000 to repair the stock fuel injection system.

So I'd like to look into an EFI conversion. Not just as potentially a cheaper alternative, but while I am comfortable with K-Jet, I've had too many problems with it and ethanol, and I'm admittedly a bit concerned with the pool of available replacement parts. Now I don't anticipate that this would be a complete "plug & play" conversion that doesn't require work. Reading the posts I understand about the work put in for fabrication, and most of all testing. I also am not in any hurry here to get the system running. But with that, I have some questions that I've not seen answered in the sticky threads, or the others I've browsed.

1. Is there any turn-key kit that is available yet?
I know that DPI has a conversion service, but it's $6K, and I'd have to ship the car off. I'd rather do this myself for both the savings, as well as the education from a hands-on experience. Not that I'm complaining, since I understand it would damn near be the same cost to have K-Jet repaired at a service center. But I like to DIY things.

2. What is the average cost of an EFI Conversion?
I have a target of $3K for K-Jet. Would EFI come in under that?

3. Which would be the preferred engine to perform an EFI Conversion on?
I would assume that the 3.0L PRV would be easier given that the manifold already has bungs for the injectors, and requires less fabrication. But am I wrong? Also, is there any reason that the 3.0 wouldn't be compatible with aftermarket exhausts like DPI's?

4. If no full kit is available, is there at least a complete list of what automotive parts are needed for the conversion?
Both parts, numbers, and available sources.

5. Does anyone who has an EFI conversion have tailpipe emissions readings?
I see the fuel maps and whatnot for tuning, but what I'm curious about is how clean the engines run since I would still be subject to emissions testing. Accordingly of course, I need to ensure the Evaporative emissions system is still in place, and I'll be running dual catalytic converters. But what about NO_x and CO₂ readings? Does anyone have any?

I've always liked K-Jet because I understood it, but I feel that it's time to finally retire the system and move on to something more modern, and more reliable since it doesn't have as many failure points. If I can move on, I sure as hell will.

Big thank you in advance to everyone.

Did you look at the stickies?????? Lots of your questions answered.

[Lough Shore Man]

This is a conversion I did on one of my cars.. Used a B28 E engine and installed an Emerald System made in the UK..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rRdHDRQPck&t=16s