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Thread: In Defense of VIN Counters

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
    Wow, it was on display in December! Might even still be, not sure yet, check out these pics! Clearly it's in immaculate shape though, doors staying open on their own is a far cry from where I last saw it.

    https://plus.google.com/photos/photo...47067539211938
    https://plus.google.com/photos/photo...17792126298482
    https://plus.google.com/photos/photo...73442654261314
    https://plus.google.com/photos/photo...17791607708834
    https://plus.google.com/photos/photo...17790925551458
    https://plus.google.com/photos/photo...46393756538770

    First time I've ever seen cave paintings on the doors like that though! WR30_ (1? 7?) on the passenger door from the front, passenger is faded and not too well shown in the pics I found. Man I need to swing up there and start asking about it, I am floored at how "out there" VIN 500 is! Weather is blistering cold though, flu season too, just hoping all goes well and I'm able to make it while it's still on display (and hoping it still is for that matter!!!)

    Noticed that "DMC" is missing from the front grill.
    The early prototypes had the logo on the grill. Wonder why it is not there on this one?

  2. #42
    Mr. Pickles-mobile Shep's Avatar
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    My VIN:    559

    Quote Originally Posted by JETS 81 DMC View Post
    Noticed that "DMC" is missing from the front grill.
    The early prototypes had the logo on the grill. Wonder why it is not there on this one?
    Not sure what prototypes you've seen, here's the most comprehensive list I know of:
    https://www.pjgrady.co.uk/pilot-chronology
    Most prototypes didn't have the logo. In fact, the only ones I've seen with it were restored incorrectly, likely by someone that couldn't source the correct part (like my continual "OEM leather binnacle" search, not a one has come up for sale in six years and I'm having to replicate one from a close VIN)

    Some of the earliest 500 series didn't have the logo either:
    https://www.pjgrady.co.uk/500-series-chronology

    Note that "early" doesn't mean "low number". 514 for example (50,000 mile endurance car) pre-dates 513 by quite a bit, but 514 is one of the few without said logo. As for why, same reason any "early" part made its way onto later cars -- you have the parts, gotta phase them out somehow, why not use them up?

    Pretty sure the logo-less grilles were meant for prototypes only. I suspect they may have been playing around with the logo placements given one of the pilots had no "De Lorean" in the rear bumper. That to me says they hadn't decided anything final when the parts were made.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
    Not sure what prototypes you've seen, here's the most comprehensive list I know of:
    https://www.pjgrady.co.uk/pilot-chronology
    Most prototypes didn't have the logo. In fact, the only ones I've seen with it were restored incorrectly, likely by someone that couldn't source the correct part (like my continual "OEM leather binnacle" search, not a one has come up for sale in six years and I'm having to replicate one from a close VIN)

    Some of the earliest 500 series didn't have the logo either:
    https://www.pjgrady.co.uk/500-series-chronology

    Note that "early" doesn't mean "low number". 514 for example (50,000 mile endurance car) pre-dates 513 by quite a bit, but 514 is one of the few without said logo. As for why, same reason any "early" part made its way onto later cars -- you have the parts, gotta phase them out somehow, why not use them up?

    Pretty sure the logo-less grilles were meant for prototypes only. I suspect they may have been playing around with the logo placements given one of the pilots had no "De Lorean" in the rear bumper. That to me says they hadn't decided anything final when the parts were made.

    Thanks for the good info and the chronology link which I have not seen before.
    That is a very interesting link. The early prototype that came to my mind is the one on display at AACA Museum until April 30, 2018. This prototype is from 1976 and has the logo on the front grill.
    Here is the link to the Delorean at AACA:
    http://www.aacamuseum.org/delorean-prototype/

  4. #44
    Mr. Pickles-mobile Shep's Avatar
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    Ah! Yes, well, helps when it's one of the first two "publicity" vehicles made and driven in the 70's -- that's Proto 1, owned currently by DMC Florida (currently called "Gulf Coast Motor Works"). Proto 2 rolled off an embankment and was totalled early on. Pilots aren't held to the same standard and pretty much anything goes it seems. Some of the pilots were 95% re-used, pulling parts from recent pilots and only changing minor things. Proto 1 and Proto 2 on the other hand were for press releases and were meant to emphasize what the final car could look like when it comes out, so they were far more finished in that regard by default. After all, what car in modern memory doesn't identify itself on the front somehow?
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  5. #45
    Senior Member DMC-81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
    Ah! Yes, well, helps when it's one of the first two "publicity" vehicles made and driven in the 70's -- that's Proto 1, owned currently by DMC Florida (currently called "Gulf Coast Motor Works"). Proto 2 rolled off an embankment and was totalled early on. Pilots aren't held to the same standard and pretty much anything goes it seems. Some of the pilots were 95% re-used, pulling parts from recent pilots and only changing minor things. Proto 1 and Proto 2 on the other hand were for press releases and were meant to emphasize what the final car could look like when it comes out, so they were far more finished in that regard by default. After all, what car in modern memory doesn't identify itself on the front somehow?
    I just wanted to clarify/correct the bolded statement. DMC Florida, ( DMCFL ), the authorized franchise location of DMC moved to Orlando last March and has no affiliation with "Gulf Coast Motor Works" or "Gulf Coast DeLoreans" which is still in Bonita Springs. As for Proto 1 the last I heard it was still owned by GCMW but it is currently on display in Pennsylvania.

    http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?14...anuary-10-2017
    Dana

    1981 DeLorean DMC-12 (5 Speed, Gas Flap, Black Interior, Windshield Antenna, Dark Gray)
    Restored as "mostly correct, but with flaws corrected". Pictures and comments of my restoration are in the albums section on my profile.
    2006 Dodge Magnum R/T (D/D)
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  6. #46
    Mr. Pickles-mobile Shep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC-81 View Post
    I just wanted to clarify/correct the bolded statement. DMC Florida, ( DMCFL ), the authorized franchise location of DMC moved to Orlando last March and has no affiliation with "Gulf Coast Motor Works" or "Gulf Coast DeLoreans" which is still in Bonita Springs. As for Proto 1 the last I heard it was still owned by GCMW but it is currently on display in Pennsylvania.

    http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?14...anuary-10-2017
    Learned something new today, thanks!
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  7. #47
    Daily Driver ssdelorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post

    snip

    They've had 500 a loooooooong time, since I was still playing in ballpits. Over two decades easy -- I first saw it when I was probably five, they already had it years before that, I'm 27 now. I've grown up with it not too far away. I'm sure that played a role in my own ownership.

    snip
    Back in the late 90's (probably the time Shep was at McDonald's in a ball pit) and a couple times in the early 2000's, the DeLorean Club of Ohio had a few events at the Crawford. A few of our founding club members have also been members of the Crawford for years. Just like Shep and Josh B., our efforts to offer free cleaning and maintenance to their DeLorean has been met with resistance. It always seemed like they had something against the DeLorean but not the other stainless cars as they were always in top notch condition.

    I am glad to see the car has finally received the much needed attention. Maybe it's most recent display is the reason? Also very surprised that it does not have any ropes to discourage "jumpers" from getting in it. All the time in the past it has been kept at a distance behind ropes.
    Shannon Y
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    ---
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    2nd angle drive - 48,489 miles (21 years) -- original from donor
    3rd angle drive - 26,572 miles (2 years 3 months) -- DMCH
    4th angle drive - 21,988 miles (1 year 11 months) -- DMCH
    5th angle drive - 7,137 miles (10 months 2 days) -- DMCH
    6th angle drive - OVER 68,971 miles and counting (OVER 7 yr 1 months & counting) -- new Martin Gutkowski unit
    over 213K miles

  8. #48
    Mr. Pickles-mobile Shep's Avatar
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    I'm offering zero promises, but I do want to try and get up there if I reasonably can. Weather's been brutal and cold, and I would have to venture solo most likely, or maybe with my Dad if he can score a day off, but if I can see it while it's still on display, I will promise a treasure trove of pics. On a legitimate camera also, not just a crappy smartphone lens (try zooming on one).
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
    "8798 produced" becoming "our 8798 number" straight to "501 is in our database" -- hang on dude, get one story and stick with it because I have three by now. If it's your own registry number, great, but please quantify that correctly.

    501 is now 500, as the leading theory goes, which is up at Crawford Auto Museum. I have seen it and it's in dire shape, museum owners simply do not care anymore, honestly the car needs a megaton of work and they wouldn't let DPI Josh fix it on his own dime (he tried to offer pro bono fixes and parts, they refused to even acknowledge it). That's why I mention 500 series. Do yourself a favor, PJ Grady UK's site, 500 chronology, amazing read.

    Original 500 -- as per leading theory -- crashed into a wall, a quick VIN plate swap and original 500 was very likely shoved back into the line for repairs or, honestly, probably sat beside my own car for the same purpose -- state-side part-out (yes, my car was a parts car before they even sold any stateside. Which means my car's a hipster... grumble grumble gah *angst*)o?

    Likely beating a dead horse at this point, but just seeing this thread. That’s just story’s. No vin plates got swapped. 501 the auto car just took 500’s place for some of the photo/video etc

  10. #50
    Mr. Pickles-mobile Shep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gfrank View Post
    Likely beating a dead horse at this point, but just seeing this thread. That’s just story’s. No vin plates got swapped. 501 the auto car just took 500’s place for some of the photo/video etc
    Very dead horse and it was already addressed when that was posted as well. Barrie Willis (sp?) gave insight I hadn't heard when I posted that saying they gave 501 to JZD for close scrutiny and pushed 500 out the door. This was also very easy as the only spot the VIN was located was under the windshield painted black (if VIN 500 has a door sill plate, it was added later).

    As for swapping tranny types for pics, this is a new one to me, and I would urge caution before believing that blindly. Firstly, that's a glaringly obvious change and also shortchanges DMC publicizing a 3-speed automatic sports car (which generally were stick back then -- "more in tune with your car" as the saying goes). The stigma alone is reason enough to push a different manual out the door vs. an automatic, even if automatic does actually get the advertised 18 MPG from my experience.

    Secondly, I have not seen nor heard of any automatic cars pictured in "first DeLorean produced" literature. Media frenzies were a thing even then, and I can't fathom the car would be out of their sight until everyone was done taking pics. I think that's the ultimate nail in that coffin. Modern phrasing is "pics or it didn't happen", well, the entire "first DeLorean made" event was a heavily documented success story, so it's hard to fathom that they didn't see the doors up and a clear shot of the shifter handle (which just to note is bulkier and more 90's-like on earlier VIN's).

    While there was a healthy 50/50 mix of automatics and manuals at the start of production (mine's an automatic), DMC made a large effort advertising it as an upcoming sports car. Automatic had a way to go before it could truly compete with manual, even now we've only barely gotten there with the latest Dodge Challenger Hellcats being slightly faster automatic than manual. Back in the 80's, the shift computers were pretty rudimentary and the automatic transmissions themselves were more of a work in progress to accommodate the slower shift computers. Shifting was slow, clunky, and unintuitive at times. It doesn't feel as natural as modern automatics, and only having three speeds to work with, I have a hard time believing they wanted to advertise an automatic car to publications that were read mostly by stickshift car guys and a few news stories you'd see on TV briefly or read in a newspaper for a morning.

    Especially when guys like me can't drive stick but still wanted one!
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