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Thread: Pilot 21 now in Germany?

  1. #11
    Mr. Pickles-mobile Shep's Avatar
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    Location:  Middleburg Heights, OH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    (Too many zeros... ;-)

    Seriously tho, shouldn't the check digit be a 9 under ISO for a 1980 vehicle with that VIN??
    Check digit or year code? Different things. A is correct year code for 1980 apparently:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehi...ication_number

    Check digit is digit #9, in this case 5. It's probably right, I would need to run it through my VIN calculator to confirm and can't be arsed to pursue it that much.
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    Main site (OUTDATED) -- Product update thread!

  2. #12
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Yes, "A" is correct for 1980.
    I get check digit = 9

    P.S. The page at my VIN calculator has some problems. I was going to use the old decoder to begin with but it doesn't offer an "A" for the year...

  3. #13
    Mr. Pickles-mobile Shep's Avatar
    Join Date:  Sep 2011

    Location:  Middleburg Heights, OH

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    My VIN:    559

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    P.S. The page at my VIN calculator has some problems.
    Worst bug report ever!!!

    What has some problems? GitHub? My code? Sorry, have to rag on you a bit, I am rarely at an advantage here, even if it will likely be short-lived. My project works fine when I tested it. Try this: Green "Clone or download" button --> Download ZIP, open HTML file.

    (EDIT: you didn't take the readme at face value, did you? "download and open vincalc.html" means "download project and open vincalc.html", otherwise you're downloading an entire GitHub page, which doesn't work all that well.)

    If you're super lazy and don't care enough to support open source (or maybe actually secretly do and want to avoid burdening open source servers), here's a JQuery clone on some random car parts page. If you want to understand the math behind it though, I highly recommend Alton's VIN Calculator. It involves a postback, but does show you how the math works for the check digit at least. Both will tell you if it's right or wrong, and what the correct one is (that last bit is key as there's an insane number that don't do that).

    I pulled mine offline and later made it open source after noticing insurance fraud at my former place of work that seemed to match the timeline of when I did this (for example, someone added a six-figure brand new Mustang GT to his policy with a VIN ending in "...000000" and the check digit was correct) and voluntarily choosing to avoid any legal issues. Open sourcing it means I'm no longer liable as per any of the available go-to licenses (I'm surprised I chose Apache, I usually go BSD these days as it's both more free and also more protective), and hosting it on GitHub means that it's available to anyone and none of my servers need to care. By the way, my calculator confirms that check digit should be 9 as you said, but it limits the input box to 17 characters and did immediately say "check digit of 5 is correct", but the VIN ends in 0002 that way. I think that's where Dermot ran into the issue -- probably added an extra zero and got the miscalculation.

    Now imagine trying to do long-hand VIN calculations!!! If you don't understand how that works, I can see if I can dig up an old Excel spreadsheet (maybe a Google Drive doc by now, I need to see) that showed the approach. This was exactly what I had to learn when I wrote that bastard. And you thought long division was hard!!!
    Last edited by Shep; 01-28-2018 at 12:32 AM.
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  4. #14
    Member pk2678's Avatar
    Join Date:  Jun 2011

    Location:  Mainz, Germany

    Posts:    54

    My VIN:    2678

    In fact the VIN is SCEDT26T5AD000021. Not SCEDT26T5AD0000021. One zero less. The authorities recommended to get a modern 17 digit VIN to ease the upcoming procedures for getting a title, exporting, importing, ... And because it was said that it would be difficult to get a VIN plate in the US, it was done in Germany. And the title was required to export the car from the US. No title, no export.
    Last edited by pk2678; 01-28-2018 at 04:05 AM.
    Always a filled fuel tank.

  5. #15
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Shep,
    ~Everything on the page gave me a 404 error.
    Yes, I did exactly what it said to do. lol Then I tried saving the 4 files to a folder (of course that didn't work either). I can't swear the green button wasn't there, but I doubt I missed it...So I gave up. I just visited it again (to give you a critique from hell armed with a double major in CSC and MAT ;-). But, it works now (Did you fix it or ???). My only suggestion now is to change "To use, download and open vincalc.html" to say something like "To use, download or clone and open vincalc.html" and move it or the green button so that they are together (MHO). (And to politely spank the user if they don't enter 17 characters ;-)
    It and Alton's came up with the same as I did, 9.
    FWIW, I don't see where Dermont dealt with the check digit.

    I originally did it long-hand using the ISO standard. It's not all that bad:
    [The fixed font is screwy (and, yeah, I'm lazy), so I just pasted it. Click to enlarge.]
    Image1.jpg

    The check digit is wrong per ISO.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Location:  Atlanta OTP GA

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    My VIN:    2743

    Club(s):   (SEDOC) (DCH) (DCUK) (DOC-UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    (Too many zeros... ;-)
    Yes, I know. Counting zeros is hard.

    But in my defense I included a photo of the VIN plate, so bonus points to me


    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    FWIW, I don't see where Dermont dealt with the check digit.
    I didn't. I didn't create the number.

    (and Grrrrr - you know why )

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Seriously tho, shouldn't the check digit be a 9 under ISO for a 1980 vehicle with that VIN??
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I originally did it long-hand using the ISO standard. It's not all that bad:
    [The fixed font is screwy (and, yeah, I'm lazy), so I just pasted it. Click to enlarge.]
    Image1.jpg

    The check digit is wrong per ISO.
    Yes, by my calculations, it should be a 9 too. Must be a metric VIN.
    Dermot
    VIN 2743, B/A, Frame 2227, engine 2320

    I don't always drive cars, but when I do, I prefer DeLoreans

    http://www.will-to-live.org

    No-one is to stone anyone, even, and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say "carburetor"

  7. #17
    Member pk2678's Avatar
    Join Date:  Jun 2011

    Location:  Mainz, Germany

    Posts:    54

    My VIN:    2678

    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    snip...

    Yes, by my calculations, it should be a 9 too. Must be a metric VIN.
    You are right. In Europe position 9 of the VIN is just one of the digits that tells something about "the general characteristics of the vehicle" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicl...ication_number). The check digit is only used in North America. Since the manufacturer was located in Europe (SC = Europe / United Kingdom), the value for position 9 could have been any allowed value. It could have been the 9. But now it is the 5.
    So the VIN is ok. Otherwise the US authorities wouldn't have accepted the VIN for the title.

    There is a lot more information about the history of Pilot 21, its current condition and what is planned. Even that the content of http://www.deloman.de/projektemenu/d-m-c-12-pilot21 is in German. You could use Google translator to browse through the pages and view the pages as an English translation:

    Go to https://translate.google.com/?hl=en
    On the left side select "German" as language to translate from.
    The right side should then show "English" as language to translate to.
    In the left hand box enter the webpage address http://www.deloman.de/projektemenu/d-m-c-12-pilot21
    In the right hand box a link appears for the translated page.
    Click on that link to view the Pilot 21 page in English.
    On that page you can click on further links to "Electrical systems", "Front door" (means luggage compartment cover), "Interior", "Body", ... and you will see the translated pages. A lot of information has been published there already. And more to come.
    Try it yourself and see if the quality of the Google translator is ok for you.
    Last edited by pk2678; 01-29-2018 at 05:43 PM.
    Always a filled fuel tank.

  8. #18
    Senior Member DMC-81's Avatar
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    ^ Thanks for the links. The translation worked great, and it was a fascinating read. I chuckled as I read the exchanges with Mike... "Only the mechanic"

    I'll be following the restoration.
    Dana

    1981 DeLorean DMC-12 (5 Speed, Gas Flap, Black Interior, Windshield Antenna, Dark Gray)
    Restored as "mostly correct, but with flaws corrected". Pictures and comments of my restoration are in the albums section on my profile.
    2006 Dodge Magnum R/T (D/D)
    2010 Camaro SS (Transformers Edition)

  9. #19
    Member
    Join Date:  Aug 2011

    Location:  Bavaria, Germany, Europe,

    Posts:    37

    My VIN:    PILOT21 #01178 #04389dwt2 #...

    First steps on PILOT21

    Hello from Bavaria!

    PILOT21_FIRST_ACTION.jpg

    I hope you enjoy:

    https://youtu.be/TSrrkrJg9sk

    Wolfgang
    Cars are built for driving and not just for watching and stand in a museum. No exceptions.
    A car in a garage is safe, but this is not what a car is built for.

  10. #20
    Senior Member BladeBronson's Avatar
    Join Date:  Aug 2015

    Location:  Bay Area

    Posts:    270

    My VIN:    10644

    Great video, Wolfgang! What unique challenges have you found already with the pilot car vs. a production car?
    Christian Williams, Bay Area
    #3452 from 2000-2005
    #10644 since 2015

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