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Thread: Where do apartment dwellers store their D?

  1. #31
    Mr. Pickles-mobile Shep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMCVegas View Post
    given the fact that *technically* the apartment complex has a key to your garage, I could totally see that as a reason to deny a claim, but I won't even go down that rabbit hole..
    Sorry, venturing down a bit to bust this myth before it starts. "Vehicle must be typically parked in a locked enclosed structure" is approximate legalese used to define your garage, it says nothing about who has the keys to said garage. I've not seen nor heard of any insurance company that even touches on access.

    Unless the garage itself causes damage, in which case that's the apartment complex's liability and things get REALLY fun. So make sure to get a garage that isn't falling apart first.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member DMCVegas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
    Sorry, venturing down a bit to bust this myth before it starts. "Vehicle must be typically parked in a locked enclosed structure" is approximate legalese used to define your garage, it says nothing about who has the keys to said garage. I've not seen nor heard of any insurance company that even touches on access.

    Unless the garage itself causes damage, in which case that's the apartment complex's liability and things get REALLY fun. So make sure to get a garage that isn't falling apart first.
    Happened to myself with Hagerty. First bought my car when I was 21 and contacted them for classic car insurance. To sum up the entire conversation, I could take out a policy with them to insure my car so long as I never had any physical access to it.

    Now I know that sounds crazy, so imagine how I felt. I asked the woman to explain and she said that the rules for Hagerty were that you had to be at least 18 in order to take out a policy with them, but no one under the age of 25 was allowed any physical access to the vehicle. It had to be kept under lock and key, and despite the fact that I was the sole legal owner of my car, I could not have any physical access to the vehicle whatsoever.

    Now I don't know if Hagerty has changed their policies since then, but back in the year 2000, that is exactly what they told me over the phone. And yes, it sure as hell did deal with specific restrictions on both where the vehicle was stored, as well as who had access to it.

    Now just as Las Vegas isn't a town built on winners, auto insurance companies don't get rich paying out claims. Sure, they'll collect those premiums from you, but if and when you have a claim, it certainly isn't in the company's best interest to pay out on it. But hey, that's just me and my trust issues. But yeah, I absolutely have dealt with access restrictions before, so that is NOT a myth and I can personally attest to that. Make damn sure you ask detailed questions and get everything into writing.
    Robert

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  3. #33
    Mr. Pickles-mobile Shep's Avatar
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    That's 100% irrelevant to what I responded to, and what you stated previously is certainly still a myth. Age is only a factor getting the insurance, the same one I had with Hagerty as I was 21 when I got their insurance. I got around it by finding an agent that spoke to underwriting seeing the title was in my name, and they agreed to insure me at that point.

    I again need to point out, insurance policies are contracts, i.e. you signed up agreeing to the terms, and they agreed to insure you under those terms. What you described in the second post is an underwriting challenge, i.e. problems getting said contract. Saying that's a direct line to problems in claims, i.e. enforcing said contract, is a load of rubbish.

    You threw the age 25 out there, here's where it ties in. No one under the age of 25 is allowed to drive the vehicle. I'm sure basically anyone on this forum with Hagerty can attest to that verbage being on their policy. I can also attest that the underwriting stage puts what's internally called an "override" in place nullifying that requirement if the title is in the name of someone under the age of 25.

    It also sounds like you spoke to an agent on this rather than Hagerty themselves. Agents are everywhere and will dismiss easily, it took me about a hundred to find one that was willing to ask Hagerty's underwriting at all on it (Vegas-based, Bond-villan-named Nikki Needles), but the best source is straight from Hagerty.

    Every shred of that being said, I again have to be blunt: nothing limits access to the garage or what is inside the garage on Hagerty policies, nor on American Modern policies. Age restrictions are for driving only, and even all that aside, it doesn't come close to justifying your nonsensical statement that "Hagerty can deny a claim because the apartment complex has a key to your garage", all I got in response to debunking that one was an irrelevant side point.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member DMCVegas's Avatar
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    No, it actually is quite relevant. You see, what we have here is the fact that you stated a claim about something being as such (in this case, garage access). Then when I challenge that claim with evidence of my own experience that happened to run contrary to your own statement, you basically call me a liar in order to try and save face.

    Now if your experience was somehow different (which even you claim you had to go to over a hundred different people to try and finally get someone to accept you for insurance), that's fine. My experience was mine, and even if they have revised conditions of insurance since then, our experiences are just that. Mine just so happened to run contrary to your statements, and no amount of trying to attack me in order to somehow justify yourself is ever going to change that.

    My point is also that no one should ever assume anything except that they will face a challenge on receiving compensation if they file a claim, let alone being insured. You must ask those questions about things such as access, and force the agents to question the underwriters or whomever to get the answer you need. And then get it in explicit writing versus just going by what anyone "claims" on the internet. Which even applies to me. Which again, if Hagerty has changed their policies from what they told me they had in the past, then that's fine. What happened in the past may not apply any longer, but make damn sure you verify that before you sign anything so that you know what you're getting into.
    Robert

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  5. #35
    Mr. Pickles-mobile Shep's Avatar
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    Okay Robert, you really need to grow some thick skin if I'M the one getting to you on here. "Basically calling you a liar"? "Attacking you"? Seriously?! Let me remind you what it is exactly that I'm disputing, in its entirety:

    Quote Originally Posted by DMCVegas View Post
    given the fact that *technically* the apartment complex has a key to your garage, I could totally see that as a reason to deny a claim, but I won't even go down that rabbit hole...
    I stated that this was false, and your defense was that you had issues because you weren't 25 yet. Age doesn't have any bearing on the above quote, and my pointing this out while also telling you the restriction is for driving, not for access, was enough for you to feel horribly insulted and crushed or something, I don't really know. Nevermind the fact that apartments aren't limited to those under the age of 25. I live in one myself, and I'm 28. You are wrong, mentioning age restrictions is nothing but smoke and mirrors when the focus is the part I'm quoting and that part alone.

    As I underlined (!) in my last post, and will underline and further elaborate since you breezed through that part and didn't even stop to see it, insurance policies are legally binding contracts. Once you sign them, both parties must oblige, which includes the insurance company as much as it does the insured. In every post since the one I quoted, your responses have used a personal experience to say that is justifiable reason for an insurance company to deny a claim. The law relies on contracts that are signed, and neither of my contracts have any access clauses at all. Bitter feelings towards salesmen / agents aside, you signed on the dotted line, and so did they. In fact, just to crush your tiny violin as quickly as humanly possible, I went out of my way to prove this by providing the relevant section of my insurance policy where "garage" is defined, as well as surrounding context to demonstrate that it is provided in full:

    Garage Exclusion.jpg

    For those interested, the form is CV 90 11, and that verbage has remained as-is on there from the present iteraion dating back thru Feb 2009 (I don't have immediate access to earlier versions). That's over a decade of consistent verbage, I would be hard-pressed to believe it has changed at all since the form's inception, but I know exactly who to ask to confirm that. Make a note of what's missing however. See anything about access to the garage? Nope, and Ctrl-F'ing through my current policy documents for various synonyms on "access" came up empty handed too. If the wording seems strange, it should be: this is one of those giant "exclusion" blocks. Policy packets are never straightforward and frequently involve a bit of a wild goose chase to come to a clear-cut answer, and this paragraph is basically a intermediary step of said goose chase, used to legally beef up the definition of what a "garage facility" is exactly.

    I will take a quick moment to remind everyone that for 5.5 years, my job was dealing with vehicle insurance policy forms and dumbing down their contents to the end user (95% of the time agents), as well as building entire system logic around the forms, frequently presented to us with zero context and the most unhelpful (but well-paying, deep-pocketed) people I'd heard of, meaning I not only had to see a form and know roughly what it meant, but by now I am fluent in the language of whatever you call insurance legalese (and please dear god don't give it a name). So to pretend like I don't know shit about what I'm talking about here is an exercise in futility. I'm not going to sit here and call insurance companies saints (far from it, if anything) but the reality is, Robert painting this to be some kind of smear campaign against him tells me he's basically got nothing left other than to try and distract attention away from the statement made, and shift it to the individuals at play, which is more smoke and mirrors. We've gone from discerning if Robert's statement is true or not to who do you like better, and truth is the statement needs a citation now that counter-evidence has been offered. Proof is right there guys, read it and weep. In your own policy packets even, they're PDF's now.

    Now Robert, if you would like to have a serious conversation about the part I am quoting and am disputing, given that you went the emotional pleading route and I provided cold hard evidence, I would love to see what counter-evidence you have to offer as, again, I have never seen nor heard of any, and can't even find any either.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member mr_maxime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Am I the only one who uses the inertia switch as a anti theft device?
    I've thought about that, usually though I just take out the RPM relay.

  7. #37
    Delorean Guru
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    If Haggerty (or any other insurance company) has terms that you can't live with, it is best to figure that out BEFORE you purchase insurance from them. That is just one reason why you need to get several quotes, each company has different rules and they vary from State-to-State. You really do not want to start off already in violation of the policy. That could give them grounds to deny any claim and drop you. Just as examples, if the owner/driver must be over 21 and you are not, that would be a clear violation, just like you say it is garaged and it is not. Or there is a mileage limitation and you exceed it. Or it is your daily driver and you use it to commute to work because it is your only car and you want cheap insurance. There can be huge consequences for falsifying your application or not abiding by the rules of the policy. Just sayin' and not implying you are doing ANYTHING contrary to the policy rules. Just trying to give good advice.
    David Teitelbaum

  8. #38
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    I just purchased my Delorean recently and this was an issue I had to deal with. I was able to find a garage for rent in my neighborhood using the NextDoor app for about $150 a month. This allowed me to get a policy with Haggerty. They actually pulled the address on Google Maps while I was on the the phone to verify it had a garage.

  9. #39
    Senior Member SoCalDMC12's Avatar
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    Something to consider: My DMC is on a regular policy (non-collector), which allows me to drive it as much as I want, and is less restrictive than a collector policy. (And because it's not my primary car, it's not very expensive to insure.) May want to go that route if finding a garage that mets the needs of a collector car insurance policy is a hassle.

  10. #40
    Nothing witty here lest it offend
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    I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico.

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