FRAMING JOHN DELOREAN - ON VOD www.framingjohndeloreanfilm.com
Page 12 of 13 FirstFirst ... 2 10 11 12 13 LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 129

Thread: 3.0L Megasquirt w/ EDIS: Headers running at different temps?

  1. #111
    Senior Member
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Southern MA

    Posts:    973

    My VIN:    767 (3.0L EFI/EDIS)

    Not much of a change, I'm afraid.

    First, I checked the VR sensor. My "eyeballing it" was way, way off, because I apparently don't know how big a millimeter is. I used 1mm worth of feeler gauges to get it properly aligned (EDIS spec is 0.75 to 1.5mm, according to the MegaManual). Interestingly, with it way out of alignment there would be no RPMs when set to Rising Edge, but I got RPMs when set to Falling Edge. Once adjusted, only Rising Edge reported RPMs, and Falling Edge was always showing 0. Unfortunately, the engine wouldn't start in any configuration.


    Next I pulled coils again, trying to narrow down which cylinders were working and which weren't. I unplugged four coils at a time (since they fire in pairs and all that), and just removed one of the two remaining coils and cranked the engine (I couldn't unplug the other coil in the bank, since they're wired in series). I could both hear when a cylinder fired and see the surge in the vacuum gauge. Most of the time, nothing fired.

    • EDIS A Bank (2 & 6)
      • #2 Only: Fires only when #6 is also installed
      • #6 Only: Always fires
    • EDIS B Bank (1 & 5)
      • #1 Only: Never Fires
      • #5 Only: Backfires? (engine stops rotating briefly)
    • EDIS C Bank (3 & 4). Almost catches when both are installed, I think.
      • #3 Only: Never Fires
      • #4 Only: Never Fires


    I'm not sure why I get different results when one is installed when both are installed -- it doesn't seem like it should matter. I confirmed the coils have power by holding the spark plug end near the block while cranking and looking for the spark, just to be sure. Previously I'd pulled the plugs as well and made sure that they were actually firing.

    Just a reminder that the unusual firing order (BAC) is because the sensor is positioned 120 degrees offset from TDC plus another six teeth counter-clockwise, which is how Josh set it up. It makes sense if you work it out (also, we know it worked on Josh's car, and again, this thing was actually idling a few weeks ago). I reconfirmed this positioning when I adjusted the VR sensor.


    For the last test of the day, I took out the fuel injectors and put them in bottles, then ran MS in Test Mode. #1 doesn't work at all (it clicks, but no fuel comes out), but the other five seem to be spraying a good amount of fuel. I took the filter out of the top of that injector and it seems clean, so I'm just going to replace the injector. Of course, it's a holiday weekend and my local auto parts store doesn't have any, so I'll have to order them. At least this explains why #1 never fired, but it doesn't explain #3 and #4 seemingly only firing when both are installed, or #5 backfiring.

    Another detail is that it turns out the plastic pintle caps on the end of the old injectors were still stuck in the injectors holes in the passenger side heads (the caps where still on my current injectors, so I must have just not noticed that they didn't come out with the old ones). That probably wasn't helping, but they weren't plugged, so I think fuel was getting through. I have obviously have removed them now.


    I kinda wish I wasn't using EDIS just so I could change the timing in MS itself, adding and removing values in software to see if it is actually a timing issue. The VR sensor is tough to get to and a pain to adjust, so I don't really want to do tests that way. But once it's working I shouldn't have to worry about this again. And we're back to the fact that this idled a few weeks back, so I have no idea what is wrong.

    -- Joe

  2. #112
    Senior Member
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Southern MA

    Posts:    973

    My VIN:    767 (3.0L EFI/EDIS)

    Another small note: while trying to figure out why I can't get CAN bus to work, I noticed that I never changed any of the jumpers on my MS 2. Apparently for EDIS and its VR sensor input (MSv357_Hwardware-3.3.pdf, page 65), I was supposed to set JP1 to 1-2, J1 to 3-4, and rotate R52 and R56 7 turns counterclockwise, then R56 back about 2 turns. I've just done this now. Unfortunately, I screwed up the number of turns on R52; hopefully I didn't damage anything (the docs do warn about that). RPM readings using the Stimulator still look good, so I'm probably fine...

    This configuration suggests that I should be using Falling Edge instead of Rising Edge, per the info Drive Stainless provided.

    -- Joe

  3. #113
    EFI'd dn010's Avatar
    Join Date:  Jul 2011

    Location:  Florida: Pinellas County

    Posts:    2,096

    My VIN:    5003 Never placed Concourse

    Club(s):   (DCF)

    Quote Originally Posted by jangell View Post
    I kinda wish I wasn't using EDIS just so I could change the timing in MS itself, adding and removing values in software to see if it is actually a timing issue. The VR sensor is tough to get to and a pain to adjust, so I don't really want to do tests that way. But once it's working I shouldn't have to worry about this again. And we're back to the fact that this idled a few weeks back, so I have no idea what is wrong.
    You can change the timing in MS, you just go into ignition setting and select "fixed" timing and enter the timing value you want. Just remember it is fixed and won't change, if you rev up you can do damage. Once your done with whatever tests you do, remember to set it back to using your ignition table.
    -----Dan B.

  4. #114
    EFI'd dn010's Avatar
    Join Date:  Jul 2011

    Location:  Florida: Pinellas County

    Posts:    2,096

    My VIN:    5003 Never placed Concourse

    Club(s):   (DCF)

    Also, the settings on page 65 are for a VR sensor connected directly to the MS, those settings are not appropriate for an EDIS setup. You need to use the settings that are on page 111, starting just above the bottom of the page where it says typical settings. This got me too, when I was setting up my ECU with EDIS, but I was corrected by James on it.
    Last edited by dn010; 09-04-2018 at 10:35 AM.
    -----Dan B.

  5. #115
    Senior Member
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Southern MA

    Posts:    973

    My VIN:    767 (3.0L EFI/EDIS)

    Quote Originally Posted by dn010 View Post
    You can change the timing in MS, you just go into ignition setting and select "fixed" timing and enter the timing value you want. Just remember it is fixed and won't change, if you rev up you can do damage. Once your done with whatever tests you do, remember to set it back to using your ignition table.
    I think you mentioned this before, but I wasn't thinking about it clearly. I understand now -- it's adjusting the SAW signal sent to EDIS to control the timing advance. I guess I can't add any sort of "timing offset" so that I can tweak the timing in software instead of moving the VR sensor -- that would require getting rid of EDIS and having MS control everything itself. Although I could add offsets in the timing table itself, I guess, if I really wanted to do that.

    The fixed timing is fine for this test -- I mostly want to see what to use software to adjust the timing forwards and backwards and see if I can make the engine fire reliably. That would be easier than faster than adjusting the VR sensor, and then I can fix the VR sensor afterwards. I don't THINK the timing is off, but I'm running out of things to test.

    -- Joe

  6. #116
    EFI'd dn010's Avatar
    Join Date:  Jul 2011

    Location:  Florida: Pinellas County

    Posts:    2,096

    My VIN:    5003 Never placed Concourse

    Club(s):   (DCF)

    You can set timing offset, if needed, but it's not recommended with EDIS because if something happens to put you in limp home mode, the ECU will no longer be using the offset and if your sensor is off you could possibly damage the engine (because you won't be at 10 degrees, you could be at 8 if your offset was 2 or 5 if your offset was 5 degrees).

    If my memory is fine, how I did it was I removed all the spark plugs in the engine, I set the timing to 15 degrees fixed in TS and then with someone on the starter I used the timing light to see what I was getting on the timing marks at the pulley. With the plugs gone the engine spins easily and your battery goes down slower.
    Last edited by dn010; 09-04-2018 at 11:16 AM.
    -----Dan B.

  7. #117
    Senior Member Drive Stainless's Avatar
    Join Date:  Mar 2016

    Posts:    576

    At the time that I sought Matt Cramer's help, this was the information that everyone was using:

    http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_EDIS.htm

    As shown on that page, that info has now been superseded by the (http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS2V357_Hardware-3.4.pdf) document, which contradicts Matt Cramer's advice and says to use "Rising Edge" when JP1 is on 1-2 and J1 on 3-4.

    I've since posted to my original thread on msextra.com asking about that change. See here:

    http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...530075#p530075

  8. #118
    EFI'd dn010's Avatar
    Join Date:  Jul 2011

    Location:  Florida: Pinellas County

    Posts:    2,096

    My VIN:    5003 Never placed Concourse

    Club(s):   (DCF)

    Deleted misinformation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drive Stainless View Post
    At the time that I sought Matt Cramer's help, this was the information that everyone was using:

    http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_EDIS.htm

    As shown on that page, that info has now been superseded by the (http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS2V357_Hardware-3.4.pdf) document, which contradicts Matt Cramer's advice and says to use "Rising Edge" when JP1 is on 1-2 and J1 on 3-4.

    I've since posted to my original thread on msextra.com asking about that change. See here:

    http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...530075#p530075
    Last edited by dn010; 09-04-2018 at 11:42 AM.
    -----Dan B.

  9. #119
    Senior Member Drive Stainless's Avatar
    Join Date:  Mar 2016

    Posts:    576

    Quote Originally Posted by dn010 View Post
    Page 66 is for VR sensor -> MS. Page 111 is for VR sensor -> EDIS -> MS.

    Page 111 does not provide any mainboard jumper settings. It simply refers back to section 5.2.4:

    "Set the mainboard as per section 5.2.4"

    Section 5.2.4 spans from page 65-66. Page 66 states:

    VR Input for logic input e.g. TFI, EDIS, GMDIS, LS1/24X, modules, hall sensor with built-in pullup
    a) Find JP1 in the bottom right of the board. Place a jumper across positions 1 and 2
    b) Find J1 in the middle of the board. Place a jumper across positions 3 and 4
    c) With a small screwdriver, turn the pots, R52 and R56, 7 turns anticlockwise (sometimes you may feel a "click"
    when the end position is reached, they can't be damaged by turning too far.)
    d)Turn R56 back about 2 turns clockwise.

  10. #120
    EFI'd dn010's Avatar
    Join Date:  Jul 2011

    Location:  Florida: Pinellas County

    Posts:    2,096

    My VIN:    5003 Never placed Concourse

    Club(s):   (DCF)

    You posted before I could edit. You are right correct. For some reason James told me that adjusting the pots in that fashion was incorrect for EDIS. Maybe I too need to clarify if something has changed! (However, and I must remember, I was asking about MS3X 3.57 where they said just hook it up and try it, don't worry about inline resisters or the pots).
    Last edited by dn010; 09-04-2018 at 11:53 AM.
    -----Dan B.

Page 12 of 13 FirstFirst ... 2 10 11 12 13 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •