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Thread: 3.0L Megasquirt w/ EDIS: Headers running at different temps?

  1. #121
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    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Norton, MA

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    Quote Originally Posted by dn010 View Post
    Also, the settings on page 65 are for a VR sensor connected directly to the MS, those settings are not appropriate for an EDIS setup. You need to use the settings that are on page 111, starting just above the bottom of the page where it says typical settings. This got me too, when I was setting up my ECU with EDIS, but I was corrected by James on it.
    ...
    You posted before I could edit. You are right correct. For some reason James told me that adjusting the pots in that fashion was incorrect for EDIS. Maybe I too need to clarify if something has changed!
    I had a whole reply your first post before I saw your follow-up.

    Here's what I have now:

    Hardware
    - JP1 at 2-3
    - J1 at 3-4
    - Turned R52 7 turns counter-clockwise (And in another explain of "I can't read", the docs say that the pots can't be damaged (not that they can be damaged) by rotating too far, so I didn't break anything by over-turning R52.)
    - Turned and R56 7 turns counter-clockwise, then two turns clockwise
    - MS board does not have Q16 installed
    - Aa wire is running from Q16's middle pad to JS10

    Software
    - Ignition Capture set to Rising Edge
    - Spark Output is Going High
    - Spark A Output Pin is disabled in TunerStudio, so I'm guessing it implicitly sets it to JS10

    I notice that using Rising Edge with this JS1/J1 configuration conflicts with what Drive Stainless posted, so that's odd. I'm curious to see what I get for RPMs when I put it back in the car. The markings on the bottom of the board say that JP1 1-2 is "VrIn" and J1 3-4 is "VrOut" (as opposed to OptoIn and OptoOut my previous configuration), but since we're using EDIS to process the VR signal I'm not sure how that applies here, beyond "that's what the docs say to do".

    I could try to redo the Timing Test in 6.7.5, but my understanding is that EDIS timing is unreliable below 400 RPM, and that it slowly increases from 0 to 10 degrees as it nears 400 RPM. Which means I need the engine running before I can try that again.

    Thanks!

    -- Joe

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drive Stainless View Post
    At the time that I sought Matt Cramer's help, this was the information that everyone was using:

    http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_EDIS.htm

    As shown on that page, that info has now been superseded by the (http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS2V357_Hardware-3.4.pdf) document, which contradicts Matt Cramer's advice and says to use "Rising Edge" when JP1 is on 1-2 and J1 on 3-4.

    I've since posted to my original thread on msextra.com asking about that change. See here:

    http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...530075#p530075
    Ah -- that answers my question about that discrepancy. Thanks!

    -- Joe

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by dn010 View Post
    You can set timing offset, if needed, but it's not recommended with EDIS because if something happens to put you in limp home mode, the ECU will no longer be using the offset and if your sensor is off you could possibly damage the engine (because you won't be at 10 degrees, you could be at 8 if your offset was 2 or 5 if your offset was 5 degrees).

    If my memory is fine, how I did it was I removed all the spark plugs in the engine, I set the timing to 15 degrees fixed in TS and then with someone on the starter I used the timing light to see what I was getting on the timing marks at the pulley. With the plugs gone the engine spins easily and your battery goes down slower.
    Ah -- that makes sense. I can probably get up to 400 RPM without any compression to worry about. I'll give that a shot this weekend. Thanks!

    I would only use a permanent timing offset in software if it was only a few degrees to avoid issues with EDIS limp-home mode. Even then, I'd prefer to get the VR sensor as close as possible and then do <1 degree tweaks in software for that final bit of finessing.

    -- Joe

  4. #124
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    I tried pulling the plugs and cranking the engine, but the high-torque starter I have tops out at 200 RPM. At that speed EDIS goes to ~5 degrees as measured with a timing gun. I know EDIS is unreliable under 400 RPM, but if the output is linear before that then 5 degrees at 200 RPM seems about right.

    I replaced the #1 injector and tested the flow, so thatís good now.

    I also drained the tank and put in fresh gas. The gas I had in there is at least 9 months old, so replacing it isnít a bad idea. The old gas looked a little orange, which is part of the reason I went ahead with this. There was only about a gallon in the tank; I added four more.

    Old gas on the left, new gas on the right.


    Still wonít start, though. I didnít have much time this weekend, so I wasnít able to re-test the spark one plug at a time. RPM signal is good return itís the newly-set MS jumpers, at least.

    I did figure out why my plug boots seem so easy to remove: I had bought new Bosch injectors, but it turns out the bodies are slightly thinner than the original Champion injectors. The Champions fit much more snuggly in the boots and are even slightly difficult to pull out. Iím going to either get a set of Champions, or see if I can find dimensional information for Bosch plugs and find a match (one site listed 135 cross references for the Champions, so thereís probably one thatís the right size).

    Thanks again

    ó Joe

  5. #125
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    Still no luck, I'm afraid.

    I took Dan's advice and replaced the nearly 40 year old bulkhead connectors with a brand new 31 pin weather pack bulkhead connector. I tested each wire as I went, making sure I'd plugged each pin into the correct part of the connector, and making sure the ends of the wires connect to the right pins on MegaSquirt, EDIS, the fuses, the original parts of the wiring, and the new parts of the wiring in the engine bay. I built a new bulkhead plate out of plastic and mounted the new connector and two of the original connectors (the black tail lights and the red automatic transmission) plus the positive and ground terminal through that.

    Everything seems to have tested fine. But the car still behaves as before -- it cranks, sometimes a cylinder fires, sometimes it backfires, but it won't start.

    I've started another thread asking if someone can test my MegaSquirt, because it's the only component I haven't tried swapping out yet.

    Thanks again!

    -- Joe

  6. #126
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    Oh yeah, here's a picture of the bulkhead connector install. I lengthen a few of the wires to ensure that nothing would get pulled out accidentally. Everything is soldered and heat shrinked where appropriate. I used 1/8" plastic for the panel. I bent it by clamping it between my workbench and a 2x4, with the 2x4 at the line I wanted to bend (which was at an angle, not perpendicular as I'd expected), then warming it with a heat gun while applying upward pressure to bend the plastic. Holes were drilled, then cut wider with a Dremel and a conical sanding bit, which made short work of the plastic without it being able to weld itself back together like a scroll saw or jigsaw blade would do.

    It worked out pretty well. The rectangular connectors are a little loose, though, more the red one than the black one. The plastic is too think for the connectors' clips to latch onto the plastic, so I just made the holes really tight. I might run some bolts or screws in through the front of the plate, and use washers and nuts from the back against the connectors to hold them in place if it becomes an issue.

    IMG_0191.jpg IMG_0184.jpg

    -- Joe

  7. #127
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    Everyone was right that it was an ignition issue -- I swapped the CoP setup for a coil pack from a Mustang 3000GT, and it actually worked. I think I just weakened some of the CoP wires when I was rerouting them, and that EDIS is sensitive to that. I'll likely redo the CoP wiring and go back to that, rather than dealing with mounting the coil pack and figuring out a better setup for the plug wires. I talk about this a bit more here, along with a video of it idling (untuned at 1500 RPM, but it's idling):

    http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?16...l=1#post240795

    Thanks again!

    -- Joe

  8. #128
    EFI'd dn010's Avatar
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    Before you decide to go back, consider:

    -You can use the wires for any particular vehicle that you can get the coil pack from. Take the EDIS spark wires & stock PRV wires, spray all of the spark plug boot ends with silicone spray. Pull the spark plug boots off all wires and swap the PRV boots onto the EDIS wires. IF the EDIS wires have angled spark plug connectors, bend them straight.

    -Two simple brackets can be made to install the pack to the right of the water pump.

    If you do not have this particular coil pack, I would go with the one shown a few posts down, here: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/9719...k-fire-system/
    Last edited by dn010; Yesterday at 01:40 PM.
    -----Dan B.

  9. #129
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    Cool, thanks. I set it up so it'll be easy to switch between coil packs and coil on plug from an electrical standpoint (just unplug one and plug in the other). I'll grab some silicone spray and try to get the boots off both sets of wires. The 3000GT wires do indeed have a 90 degree bend inside the boot, which seems to be molded plastic around the wire, but I'm sure it can be pulled out somehow. I also guessed that the best mounting location would be on the right of the engine where the distributor was on the 3.0L, although that is primarily because one of the 3000GT wires is surprisingly short, and it would probably have to be mounted there to reach #3 at all.

    -- Joe

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