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Thread: Clutch replace

  1. #101
    Senior Member Bitsyncmaster's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

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    Here is my test "throwout bearing". This should stay centered on the fingers. Would have been better to make it out of steel but wanted to machine it faster. This is 2024 aluminum.
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    Dave M vin 03572
    http://dm-eng.weebly.com/

  2. #102
    Senior Member Bitsyncmaster's Avatar
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    Got my force gauge. I'm impressed with the quality. It has a calibration sticker of 8-29-2013. I set it on my press and brought it up to half scale (5000 lbs.). Let off the press and the needle went to zero.

    I set the old centerforce pressure plate with the new disk on the flywheel. Put the screws in less two turns from bottom. I added force until all 6 mount points contacted the flywheel and the force was 2100 lbs.

    I will test that holding force on the new pressure plate and also test the release force on each. For that I plan to just apply force to the fingers until I can turn the disk with the alignment tool.

    I was thinking a 10,000 lbs full scale may not give me good resolution but it takes very little press movement to add 100 lbs. so don't think you can get much better than 100 lb resolution. So probably a 5000 lb full scale would be the best.
    Dave M vin 03572
    http://dm-eng.weebly.com/

  3. #103
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Some people get to play with all of the good toys..

  4. #104
    Senior Member Bitsyncmaster's Avatar
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    My new method of testing the clamping force on the disk it to just sit the pressure plate on the three guide pins of the flywheel. Then add force in 50 pound increments until I can’t slide a 0.004” shim stock feeler gauge under all 6 bolt contact points. This gives me more repeatable (accuracy) to my testing. Note there are three legs of the pressure plate. Each location has a guide pin and two bolt holes to mount to the flywheel.

    Also to note, the pressure plates are balanced. Each of those three legs has a hole for a balance weight. The Centerforce plate has one weight and the new Valeo plate has two weights.

    1750 lbs. Clamp force for Centerforce
    1600 lbs. Clamp force for Valeo

    The release test you just apply a little force on the side of the disk with a pencil until it moves.

    Centerforce peak 250 lbs. No drop in force and disk goes loose, distance to release is 0.214”
    Valeo peak 400 lbs. then drops to 350 lbs. and disk goes loose, distance to release is 0.204”
    Dave M vin 03572
    http://dm-eng.weebly.com/

  5. #105
    Senior Member Bitsyncmaster's Avatar
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    My VIN:    03572

    I found a problem with my release test on the Valeo pressure plate. I noticed my test throwout bearing has signs of the fingers hitting it where I made a center dia. to keep it centered. The fingers are a little longer which I had notaced before but the fingers sit at quite a bit of angle even when the pressure plate is bolted down. So what happened was the fingers bound up on my test throwout bearing which threw the reading off.

    The new reading after machining that dia. down.

    Valeo peak 300 lbs. No drop in force and disk goes loose, distance to release is 0.204”

    So not much difference in any clutch components. I got the new stainless sleeved master and slave from John and he suggested maybe the slave was sticky. The old slave does have a tear in the boot.
    Dave M vin 03572
    http://dm-eng.weebly.com/

  6. #106
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    If you are not already installing ... I wonder what the bearing travel would be for each after bolting them to the flywheel?

  7. #107
    Senior Member Bitsyncmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    If you are not already installing ... I wonder what the bearing travel would be for each after bolting them to the flywheel?
    I will give it a test. It seems the force is pretty constant through the travel so I can stop when force increases. I was surprised how low the force was to release the clutch. I see Centerforce has a new claim that they use ball bearing pivots on the fork arms to reduce clutch forces.

    I am ready to start assembly. I did pull the transmission with the slave attached but think I will install the slave after installation just so it with the long bleeder hose is not going to get hung up. I also plan to use wheel bearing grease for the fork and throwout bearing surfaces (where it rides on the tube). I need to buy some new blue locktite since my old bottle of it must be 20 years old now. I think I will also replace the master cylinder first so I can get those cores returned to John.
    Dave M vin 03572
    http://dm-eng.weebly.com/

  8. #108
    Senior Member Bitsyncmaster's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Leonardtown, MD

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    My VIN:    03572

    I tested the Valeo pressure plate again since that was still bolted to the flywheel. This time I put a little grease on my test throwout bearing so it could center on the fingers as I applied force. The Valeo fingers are still angled up so as I press them down that center hole gets smaller until the fingers are parallel with flywheel.

    The force is pretty consistent at 250 lbs until the clutch disk goes free. Note my force gauge has a scale of 0 to 10,000 lbs. so reading these low values I'm splitting hairs on the gauge. This distance reads 0.227"

    Then after the disk released, the force dropped to about 200 lbs. and continued to drop to 100 lbs. until I stopped at a distance of 0.391" total. I did not want to test it to far fearing doing some permanent damage.

    The numbers stamped on the Valeo pressure plate:
    185873 235 CP 5500 MADE BY VALEO MC3 26/09/16 03 23 00

    Also to note the fork:
    Distance from fulcrum to slave is 4.28" and distance from fulcrum to throwout bearing is 3.34"
    Last edited by Bitsyncmaster; 08-12-2018 at 08:54 AM.
    Dave M vin 03572
    http://dm-eng.weebly.com/

  9. #109
    Senior Member Bitsyncmaster's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Leonardtown, MD

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    My VIN:    03572

    Temporarily installed the new slave and noticed the pipe was touching the transmission. So added a little vacuum tube to isolate that. By the way my old slave did have a little sticking way down with the piston all the way in but it's nothing the 100 plus lbs. of return force would not take care off.

    Also a photo of my force gauge. I would guess for this work a 2 ton (4000 lbs) gauge would have been better. But this one is so well built I trust it gave me pretty good accuracy.
    Attached Images
    Dave M vin 03572
    http://dm-eng.weebly.com/

  10. #110
    Senior Member DMC-81's Avatar
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    Nice testing Dave!
    Dana

    1981 DeLorean DMC-12 (5 Speed, Gas Flap, Black Interior, Windshield Antenna, Dark Gray)
    Restored as "mostly correct, but with flaws corrected". Pictures and comments of my restoration are in the albums section on my profile.
    2006 Dodge Magnum R/T (D/D)
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