Clutch replace

[Bitsyncmaster]

Hi Dave, That’s normal. The second part is an extension 108295, that connects to the shift arm, like so:

Thanks. I was just wondering if a PO made that change. So I guess it gives more throw on the forward/back gear shift in the car.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Well I'm at a loss as to why I had the failure (suddenly no connection of engine to transmission). So I was not using the clutch and got a sudden failure.

I have not found any problem with the mechanical area of the clutch, pressure plate, flywheel. Yes maybe the step is less than it should be but don't think that would have caused the failure.

I'm more inclined to think the hydraulics did not release fully but I would think I would have noticed when stopping and going through the gears if the clutch was grabbing very with a very high pedal. Also I did bleed some clutch fluid when the problem happened and the problem remained. Even if the clutch master somehow jammed up I think I would have noticed when going through the gears.

My only thought is somehow the weights on my centerforce pressure plate jammed not releasing the clutch fully.

By the way it was early in the morning when the failure occurred so the air temp was nothing great. I also could drive my car into my garage when the tow truck dropped off my car at home. I also drove it up onto ramps when getting ready to drop the transmission.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Well I bolted the flywheel, disk and pressure plate together. I set the throwout bearing on to see if the weights could have jammed and there is no way they could have jammed the throwout bearing.

On a side observation the fingers are just about perpendicular to the disk so there is no way the centerforce design is going to help. Maybe a few degrees of up angle.

Now to test the spring force you could apply a measured weight to the pressure plate to just get it to seat. But I'm guessing that force would be hundreds of pounds since bolting it down takes quite a bit of torque.

[David T]

Well I'm at a loss as to why I had the failure (suddenly no connection of engine to transmission). So I was not using the clutch and got a sudden failure.

the way it was early in the morning when the failure occurred so the air temp was nothing great. I also could drive my car into my garage when the tow truck dropped off my car at home. I also drove it up onto ramps when getting ready to drop the transmission.

First time you mentioned this. There are 2 possibilities. One is of course the clutch. The other is something inside the transmission. Before re-installing the transmission you should try all of the gears by hand to make sure there is nothing wrong with it. As for the clutch, it is possible the hydraulics did not fully release allowing the clutch to engage. The usual failure of the clutch is wear, the friction disc gets worn down to the rivets and the rivets score the pressure plate and/or the flywheel and the clutch slips under load. Rare to fail with complete disengagement. In cases where I have seen this it is often due to the clutch hydraulics overextending the throwout bearing and it gets mechanically stuck. Sounds like the clutch is not worn out so you must figure out what went wrong before you reassemble.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Just playing with the transmission. So I assume the lever on the transmission has three positions but when I move it by hand it seems to only go full forward or full revers. That would relate to the forward, neutral and back movement of the shift stick in the car.

I also assume the lever has four positions pushing in or out on the shaft of the shift lever. That would relate to your four left right movements of the shift stick in the car.

Just want to know if my thinking of how it works is correct.

[DMC5180]

You are correct in your thinking.


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[DMC-81]

Well I'm at a loss as to why I had the failure (suddenly no connection of engine to transmission). So I was not using the clutch and got a sudden failure.
Snip
By the way it was early in the morning when the failure occurred so the air temp was nothing great. I also could drive my car into my garage when the tow truck dropped off my car at home. I also drove it up onto ramps when getting ready to drop the transmission.

hi there is also the chance nothing is wrong with the clutch and the slip is in the coupler on the input shaft being stripped ?

I just wanted to highlight this suggestion as something to check. It would certainly cause a sudden disconnection, but not the ability to drive it a bit afterwards, unless the stripped splines (or crack/break) somehow caught again, allowing slow speed/low torque motion.

With the transmission in first gear and then in reverse, you should be able to fairly easily turn the input shaft (use a shop cloth around the shaft or the clutch disk) causing the drive flanges to turn. Then you can quickly turn it one way and the other (back and forth) and see if the drive flanges react in a fairly direct manner. Also check for any looseness or noise with these 2 tests.

I did this in every gear as a test after I reassembled my gearbox.

[Ron]

By the way it was early in the morning when the failure occurred so the air temp was nothing great.

Was this during the time(s) previously mentioned? ...Your D had been on the road a while and "hot" as with all other times it revved, right?

Reading it all again, I'm not clear about the shifter position(s) immediately after it revved. IE, After the first time (when you moved the shifter to see if it had popped out of gear), did you ever happen to see what happened if you worked the clutch before moving the shifter and see if it would pull?? ...or feel the normal synchronizer bump-resistance when moved into neutral the first time afterwards by chance?
Did you have to stop to get it to work again? Every time?

=================

If it always revved when in 4th gear:
Did 4th ever act up going in like 1st or do anything else odd?
What condition was the pilot bearing in?
How much movement is there in the output shaft (both ways)?
Dana got me thinking about 4th and its synchronizer keys (aka strut wings/lock dogs) being on the opposite end of a sloppy output shaft.... Anything that would not raise Hades when it 'turned loose'/revved.

(But I'm still rooting for hydraulics ;-)

[Bitsyncmaster]

Was this during the time(s) previously mentioned? ...Your D had been on the road a while and "hot" as with all other times it revved, right?

Reading it all again, I'm not clear about the shifter position(s) immediately after it revved. IE, After the first time (when you moved the shifter to see if it had popped out of gear), did you ever happen to see what happened if you worked the clutch before moving the shifter and see if it would pull?? ...or feel the normal synchronizer bump-resistance when moved into neutral the first time afterwards by chance?
Did you have to stop to get it to work again? Every time?

=================

If it always revved when in 4th gear:
Did 4th ever act up going in like 1st or do anything else odd?
What condition was the pilot bearing in?
How much movement is there in the output shaft (both ways)?
Dana got me thinking about 4th and its synchronizer keys (aka strut wings/lock dogs) being on the opposite end of a sloppy output shaft.... Anything that would not raise Hades when it 'turned loose'/revved.

(But I'm still rooting for hydraulics ;-)

It was always like the transmission just shifted into neutral. Engine RPM could go up or down without car speed changing. I'm pretty sure I tired down shifting to 4th before coming to a stop and still had no connection from engine to transmission. I think it would only go back to normal after I stopped the car for a few minuets. I'm pretty sure I also had the problem with 4th gear which I tested after the first and many problems in 5th gear. No partial slipping or noises at all, was always like the clutch let go. I never gave it heavy acceleration hopping I could drive it back home but the problem never went away.

I wish I would have thought to check that the clutch pedal still had some slop at the top (no clutch pressure). It does have that slop now and when I've checked it before but that was always when the car was not driven for a while.

Throwout bearing looks and feels good. Also Looks like engine rear main seal not leaking. Also transmission seal not leaking. I think the oil I see is from engine case seals.

I can't really select all gears with the transmission out of the car since I can't push or pull (gate cable) the shift arm to known positions. But rotating the input shaft both ways the drive axle shafts move with no play both forward and reverse.

The end of the input shaft has about 0.10" movement total pushed and pulled left and right.

On a side note, I did replace the master clutch seal one or two years ago because I was getting a little leak inside the car. I'm not sure if I had done a long ride after I did that work or not.

If I missed any other questions from all responses please ask again. Thanks for all the help everybody.

[David T]

If it "goes back to normal after a few minutes", that could be a bad or maladjusted clutch master cylinder. Somehow it is not releasing the pressure in the slave cylinder. No way that is the transmission, they don't fail and all of a sudden work again. Or maybe the fluid is boiling and causing the problem. I would rebuild/replace the master and slave, if you have the plastic hose replace it with the S/S braided hose and refill with Castrol DOT 4. As long as you have removed the clutch it should now be replaced.