Location: Hill Country, TX
Posts: 1,579
My VIN: Formerly 2329
Here is my first pass at the write up on my install. I will continue to update it and periodically re-upload it with the same name. I don't think this is the optimal way to do this, but I'm not sure what features we can enable with this forum. Admins???
If parts are unclear or if more detail is necessary, please comment and I'll try and improve it. I haven't tried to tackle the tuning section yet.
Owen
I.Brew.Beer.
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,405
My VIN: 01049
Since I am going to attempt my conversion again soon, I would like to see pictures from Jim Reeve and Martin Gutkowski (sp?) of how they do the throttle spool set up with the Z7U manifold, please.
Owen - Nice write up. I'm using a different manifold, but I think it will certainly be helpful to others!
Posts: 443
Fantastic job so far, man. I look forward to referencing your spark control section when I get that far on my car.
Comments:
Not sure if there's a price difference but you can order custom length fuel rails pre-tapped for AN -6 connections from rossmachineracing.com.After the fuel injector bungs have been welded into place, injectors can be inserted to determine the exact placement of the holes in the fuel rail. The rail was bought from Jegs, www.jegs.com and it already has the center bore. You mark where the injectors need to insert and then carefully drill a hole. Much to my surprise in doing this job, the injectors are only held in place and kept sealed by o-rings on both ends. The side wall (not floor or ceiling) friction fit into both the bungs and the fuel rail is sufficient; see the pic later on of the injector and its o-rings. Notice how the standoffs for the fuel rail are held by the same 4 bolts that hold down the manifold itself in Figure 4, below. Once the injectors are seated in both the rail and the bungs, the screws can be tapped into the rail to hold the spacing.
Also, it's worth pointing out that while the seal for the injectors is in fact accomplished by the o-ring alone, it is still VITAL that the rail be secured against moving away from the injector bungs (I.e. along the axis of the injectors themselves). Your standoffs serve a dual purpose here - maintaining alignment and preventing the pressure from forcing the rail off the injectors and causing Bad Things to happen.
The basic two diameters (I think this is something like 99% of all injectors not counting TBI units) are 11 and 14mm. 14mm is the standard size "Bosch" type injector - this is what you want as they're likely to be MUCH easier to find wiring and bungs for. The 14's are basically all the same exterior dimensions for the purposes of fabricating a rail.I’m not sufficiently experienced to know all of the different diameters that may be out there, so the key is to have the injectors before drilling any holes! Before someone asks, getting giant ones will NOT increase your power.
Good call on the injector size mention. For a 3.0L I think the most we'd ever need is about 30lbs, and that'd be for a monster street or track motor. For reference, my 29.5lb injectors are from a supercharged Pontiac 3.8L engine - I will never ever push those injectors to their limits. Might want to mention the difference between hi and low impedance injectors as well - hi-impedance are a lot easier to set up, I'm not sure if there's an advantage to low impedance or not.
Also worth mentioning is that DIYAutoTune also carries all of the electrical harness bits for making a harness - not just the MS stuff. You can basically buy all of your electrical bits there (MS board, stim, wiring harness, injector and sensor connectors, Weatherpack connectors, and a bunch more, but their injectors are HUGE, so I'd still look elsewhere for those). It helps tremendously to have a single source for those parts. I know you mentioned the stim and harness but those connectors were a GODSEND for me and I can't help plugging them a little. And they have fantastic customer service, too...
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 3,047
My VIN: 16510 and carbureted
Club(s): (GCD) (SEDOC) (DCUK)
Has anyone every considered this product?
http://www.compperformancegroupstore...stemEZIEFIKits
They make it look so easy to convert to EFI but of course it is very expensive.
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,405
My VIN: 01049
Considering that I didn't spend too much less than that on my equipment, and I had to gather everything from a bunch of different sources, that price, while a lot of money, isn't really out of line. However, my money included an intake manifold set and ready to go for port injection.Originally Posted by stevedmc
A manifold would still be required, which would either have to be fabricated (I bet one of Bill's manifold's could be used with an adapter plate, perhaps?), or an existing manifold that fits our heads would have to be found.
It is also throttle body injection, which isn't as desirable as port injection. Another problem I see is that it is supposedly a self-learning system. While that may be easier to get a drivable car going much more quickly, it is not going to be as accurate or fine tuned as the human driven iterative tuning process.
While there may be simplicity advantages to a setup like that, and I may be wrong here, I don't really see anyone who is considering EFI doing so because they want an easily accomplished conversion.
Posts: 443
That's an interesting kit, but pretty much useless for us unless they make one that fits a PRV for some reason. Looks like it's designed solely to fit a particular type of carb manifold.
It also appears to be a weird cross between TBI and port fuel injection - I don't *think* that multiple injectors will have a real benefit with the injectors that far away from the runners, though I'm admittedly not an expert.
In this case with all the stuff that you get with it, if you had a motor that would fit it, I bet it IS super easy - maybe by enough to warrant the price difference.
Posts: 1,068
"4150" is a Holley carb (the so called Double Pumper?), which uses a standard square bore bolt pattern if I'm not mistaken.
Bill Robertson
#5939
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 3,047
My VIN: 16510 and carbureted
Club(s): (GCD) (SEDOC) (DCUK)
Yep. It wouldn't work on a 604 manifold because its designed to replace a 4 barrel carburetor. I'm sure someone else has a product designed to replace Motorcraft 2100 carbs with EFI.
I would seriously consider TBI if I were to ever convert to EFI. You don't have to worry about timing when the injectors fire and its a much simpler design. My Geo Metro runs TBI and got 52 mpg on my last tank of gas.
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,405
My VIN: 01049
There really isn't a whole lot to time; unless you're going to fully sequential port injection.
Batch injection is similar to K-Jet in that it fires all injectors at once. Also, port injection isn't exactly all that much more complicated than TBI. Instead of a fuel feed line going to a throttle body, it goes to a pair of fuel rails, and then injectors are mounted in the fuel rails. That's about all there is to it.
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 3,047
My VIN: 16510 and carbureted
Club(s): (GCD) (SEDOC) (DCUK)
Do EFI fuel pumps need a reliable ground connection in order to work?
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