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Thread: Curious about future of DMCTalk.org

  1. #11
    Senior Member Josh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    They are size reduced to the point of becoming illegible.

    Or people post images and the orientation is wrong. The standard response is to make fun of their device rather than fix a software problem.

    Other free opinions
    -Image galleries should be navigable by left / right arrow, or have navigation elements independent of the image size so you aren't playing whack-a-mole with the "prev / next" buttons while browsing a gallery

    -Site design should be responsive

    -Using Google to search the site can be more frustrating than the site search. Google links bring you in to the /archive/* tree which doesn't display images. If it's a thread with 100+ posts and you want to view images, there isn't a direct link to posts in the standard view. That means you have to click on the full version and guess the approximate page number, then start looking around to find the post.

    -The domain has an SSL cert but vBulletin / Apache aren't set up to use it properly which essentially renders it useless.

    Yes, I am volunteering to help fix these problems.
    Luke 4 admin.

  2. #12
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    They are size reduced to the point of becoming illegible.

    Or people post images and the orientation is wrong. The standard response is to make fun of their device rather than fix a software problem.

    Other free opinions
    -Image galleries should be navigable by left / right arrow, or have navigation elements independent of the image size so you aren't playing whack-a-mole with the "prev / next" buttons while browsing a gallery

    -Site design should be responsive

    -Using Google to search the site can be more frustrating than the site search. Google links bring you in to the /archive/* tree which doesn't display images. If it's a thread with 100+ posts and you want to view images, there isn't a direct link to posts in the standard view. That means you have to click on the full version and guess the approximate page number, then start looking around to find the post.
    THANKS for the input!

    Most of those can be resolved by sizing and orienting the file before uploading.
    Why the BS:
    Quote Originally Posted by Snips from vBulletin support
    All EXIF data is stripped, even on images that are not resized. EXIF data is not secure and can be used to compromise a web server.
    ...
    Because there is no control over what is in the EXIF data. Every camera and graphics application does it own thing with this data. Users can include Javascript in these fields and exploit your site because some browsers (cough cough, IE and Edge) will execute it. Worse on an improperly configured server, you can include PHP in the EXIF data and have it processed by the server. Since we have no control over the server and have a duty to make the software as secure as possible, we remove the EXIF data.
    ...
    Resized images are always stored as JPEG image....
    ...
    If you're willing to store full size images (up to 4608 X 4608 and not have them resized by vBulletin then the EXIF data would most likely be retained. You would have to adjust the sizes under Attachment -> Attachment Storage Type. Both dimensions and file size have to be adjusted. If any of the three (height, width, size) go over the maximum specified, then the image will be resized, converted to a JPEG and have its EXIF stripped.
    FWIW:
    I could see the latter on a photography forum...

    I don't remember people making fun of another's device. (The "standard" ??)

    LOL- I hate the
    "prev / next" buttons moving when pic sizes are mismatched too, but you don't have to be quick on the draw as with whack-a-moles...

    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    -The domain has an SSL cert but vBulletin / Apache aren't set up to use it properly which essentially renders it useless.
    IIRC, this happened during the last move and was slated to be fixed. I'll see what's up...

    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    Yes, I am volunteering to help fix these problems.
    Shoot Tamir a PM...

  3. #13
    '82 T3 FABombjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    THANKS for the input!
    Like everyone on the internet I'm just full of opinions. But I'm glad someone is interested

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Why the BS:
    That would apply to the published image. I agree that EXIF should be stripped from the final image to remove potential security issues, location data, etc. BUT stripping EXIF is the final step before publishing.

    What seems broken is the pre-processing of images using EXIF orientation data. When vBulletin processes an uploaded something ignores or discards the orientation data, which would correct an upside-down image or a left/right rotated image during reprocessing. I've not worked directly with vBulletin, but I've set up phpBB, Mediawiki, and lots of other web software that work with images, and most of the time they farm those tasks out to either gd or imagemagick. I suspect that either these are out of date or vBulletin is set up to be too aggressive about stripping EXIF data early in the chain.

    That same processor seems to regard PNG files as something needing to be converted to jpg and size reduced. Trying to post data log screenshots in the EFI section, for example, is pointless since they become too small to be useful. Generally speaking a screenshot PNG will be both smaller than a jpeg and much sharper. The software should keep PNG as-is unless it exceeds some a size threshold.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Most of those can be resolved by sizing and orienting the file before uploading.
    This falls under the purview of "humans performing tasks on behalf of computers" and in my department I consider this a cardinal sin, to be eradicated at all costs


    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I don't remember people making fun of another's device. (The "standard" ??)
    Maybe not making fun But a lot of cursing out iPhones for being the problem when it's actually out of date forum software


    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    LOL- I hate the [/FONT][/COLOR]"prev / next" buttons moving when pic sizes are mismatched too, but you don't have to be quick on the draw as with whack-a-moles...
    Haha, but I'm a spaz and world champion mouse clicker. Actually dealing with carpal tunnel syndrome I grew accustomed to keyboard shortcuts. Post-op most of the nerve issues are gone but I still love to push keyboard buttons.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Shoot Tamir a PM...
    He's probably a little distracted these days LOL
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  4. #14
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    That would apply to the published image. I agree that EXIF should be stripped from the final image to remove potential security issues, location data, etc. BUT stripping EXIF is the final step before publishing
    ...
    I suspect that either these are out of date or vBulletin is set up to be too aggressive about stripping EXIF data early in the chain.
    It's stripped "immediately upon download".

    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    That same processor seems to regard PNG files as something needing to be converted to jpg and size reduced. Trying to post data log screenshots in the EFI section, for example, is pointless since they become too small to be useful. Generally speaking a screenshot PNG will be both smaller than a jpeg and much sharper. The software should keep PNG as-is unless it exceeds some a size threshold.
    iirc, ALL pics are converted to JPG.

    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    This falls under the purview of "humans performing tasks on behalf of computers" and in my department I consider this a cardinal sin, to be eradicated at all costs
    +
    Maybe not making fun But a lot of cursing out iPhones for being the problem when it's actually out of date forum software
    But, but...but the POS iPhones put the data there, creating tasks for others to contend with.
    ...Apple has never worried much about compatibility, backwards or otherwise.

    I don't remember anyone "cursing out" another's device either.

  5. #15
    '82 T3 FABombjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    But, but...but the POS iPhones put the data there, creating tasks for others to contend with.
    ...Apple has never worried much about compatibility, backwards or otherwise.

    I don't remember anyone "cursing out" another's device either.
    Other than you, two sentences previously

    It's not really an Apple thing as EXIF is a standard. It's the ancient software here that doesn't understand the orientation metadata or prematurely obliterates it. I've pretty much switched to imgur which gets it right without the hassle and has an easy to use drag & drop upload interface.

    Much nicer than "manage attachments" -> "add files" -> browse -> find one single file -> click upload -> click + -> find the next file -> click "insert inline" or maybe just "done". This is humans performing repetitive tasks - getting away from this is why we keep building more computers
    Luke S :: 10270 :: 82 Grey 5-Speed :: Single Watercooled T3 .60/.48 :: Borla Exhaust :: MSD Ignition :: MS3X Fully SFI Odd-fire EFI :: DevilsOwn Methanol Injection

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  6. #16
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    Other than you, two sentences previously


    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    It's not really an Apple thing as EXIF is a standard. It's the ancient software here that doesn't understand the orientation metadata or prematurely obliterates it. I've pretty much switched to imgur which gets it right without the hassle and has an easy to use drag & drop upload interface.
    vBulletin says they "have the problem slated to be fixed, but it is not high on the list." There were similar complaints on Twitter, eBay, etc. when I looked at it back when. (Note, I'm not the vB guy here...) A new standard/software that allows users to insert Javascript capable of exploiting a site sounds like a good idea gone wrong to me (ntm PHP/server). EXIF is obviously here to stay for a while, so I guess it boils down to vB's future (If patients wear out, I like WordPress, but not going to go there ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    Much nicer than "manage attachments" -> "add files" -> browse -> find one single file -> click upload -> click + -> find the next file -> click "insert inline" or maybe just "done".
    ....
    This is humans performing repetitive tasks - getting away from this is why we keep building more computers
    Agreed. But there are dangers involved (Watch Idiocracy ;-).

    Options:
    Click: "Insert Image" icon -> From Computer -> File(s) -> Upload

    OR

    ... -> From URL-> Enter URL

  7. #17
    Full of Eccentricities 81dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark D View Post
    Hopefully the odd looking DeLorean banner at the top will also get some much needed attention...



    Solution:


    Attached Images
    Rodolfo
    Toy: VIN 831- VR6 Swap in Progress...
    Delorean.eu Roof Box, Double Din, Custom Instrument Cluster w/Cruise, QA1 Suspension.
    Cruiser: 1982 Mercedes 300SD TurboDiesel
    Tow Rig: 2004 Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins TurboDiesel

  8. #18
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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  9. #19
    Guy with a DeLorean Mark D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 81dmc View Post
    Solution:





    I love it!
    Mark Dehlinger

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