Excess Rear Wheel Camber ????

[nkemp]

...I remember when i saw your car in person for the first time I was surprised to see a Delorean that low.

I think its "lowness" was like the frog in hot water. Put a frog in hot water and it will jump up. Put it in tepid water and heat it and it will stay there until it is too late. I think the car got progressively lower over the years ... beyond too late. At first I thought maybe the lowering springs (not any of the current batch, these are about 30 years old) were compressing. After installing the Eibach I think the previous springs were fine.

My current plan is new bushings to see how much it improves the stance (nothing seems out of whack). Then I'll see if adjustables are still needed.

[powerline84]

If you guys want adjustable rear control arms let me know . Check my build thread . If your on Qa1s or are that low you need them . It completely changed how the car drives especially under breaking .

[nkemp]

Just an update ... Pulled the driver side control arms and the bushings are shot. On the lower arms:
- the inner sleeve slid right out
- the rubber part is separated from the outer metal sleeve and was easily removed
- There is so much play in the bushing that the control arm shows damage from rubbing on the frame
- Once the control arm was separated you could feel the play in the bushings

The upper look bad as well and have not yet tried to get the old bushings out.

I have no idea why they are as such but I suspect it is related to them being powder coated (I don't recall how the guy processed them (with or without the bushings installed) .

The current problem is removing the old sleeve from the control arms. The first shop I tried could do them because of the difficulty holding the arm without damaging the finish. If the arms were not powder coated I'd get new ones. I still have the originals (about 60K miles on them) and they are pretty gnarly due to debris hitting them and subsequent rust and deterioration. Granted, the original owner drove them on salted roads and the car now is pretty babied.

The learned experience so far is that it is difficult to judge the state of bushings while on the car.

[nkemp]

If you guys want adjustable rear control arms let me know .

Once I get the bushings fixed I may take the adjustable control arm path. My process is to fix the primary problem, not the symptom. The high camber is a symptom of a problem ... bad bushings is my current thought.

BTW ... since the upper control arms have 90 degree ends, adjusting them does not affect toe-in as do adjustable lowers (Lowers don't have 90 degree ends).

[DMCMW Dave]

...

I have no idea why they are as such but I suspect it is related to them being powder coated (I don't recall how the guy processed them (with or without the bushings installed) .

The current problem is removing the old sleeve from the control arms. .

I'm guessing they went thru the powder coating oven with the bushings in. The bushings are (as you have noticed) somewhat difficult to remove, and would never tolerate being removed and reinstalled as they would likely be loose. A common way to remove them is press out the rubber part, then notch and deform the sleeve to get that out. Then press in the new ones. This will all be difficult without damaging the finish. Are you sure that just repainting them black once in a while isn't a better solution than powder coating?

If I was serious about powder coating a set of control arms, I'd remove the bushings, plug the open ends with high heat corks, do the process, and then install new bushings. Can't say I've ever done that.

[nkemp]

At this point I think I'll try to remove the sleeves. Depending on how it goes I may simply order new ones .... with bushings

[nkemp]

Progress slow but sure. So for those who try this themselves ....

For me, it was easy removing bushings. First push through the bushing's inner metal tube. Then pry (I used a narrow screwdriver) the rubber from the outer sleeve. With it loosened, the rubber part pushes through easily.

I then removed the driver side control arms bushing's sleeves. I tried a variety of ways to punch the sleeves through but none generated any progress. What worked was to use a sawzall to cut through the bushing sleeve but not into the control arm. I sawed it from inside, at the arc that was centered on the arm's long tube since any intrusion past the sleeve into the control arm would not weaken the bushing tube.

That went pretty well. I'd cut and then check and repeated, trying not to go into the control arm. Part of checking was using a screwdriver as a chisel to spread the sleeve from the tube. Once the bushing sleeve was fully cut, it either could be slid out or I used a pliers to twist it in such direction that it wound the metal into the hole and worked it out.

This process is not really that hard. It takes time because I went slow to prevent overcutting (that said, I did barely "Nick" the control arm tube ... or did I Mark it or Chip it). You can't uncut a cut made too far. That said, once I figured a process, a sleeve can be removed in under 15 minutes.

[nkemp]

Problem solved. With the new bushings installed the stance is as it should be ... and looks like all its brethren. I don't need to feel embaraced any more.

My conclusion is if you have a lot of camber, bushings (not the springs) are the primary suspect. You can't really tell from looking at them and they don't result in any looseness. Adjustable control arms might solve the problem but its fixing the symptom, not the problem. In my case, I think it was the uppers that were bad (the most bad) since both sides showed damage to the frame where the control arm was rubbing against the frame.

So I don't, at this point, see a need for adjustable control arms.

Now on to finding a nice set of tires.

[DMC5180]

I view adjustable arms mostly for compensating for a lowered suspension geometry.

Do you have any pictures of the old bushings before you pressed them out?

Btw, you tackled this all wrong! You’re supposed to wait until a week before the next big DMC event to finish these kinds of projects.

[nkemp]

You’re supposed to wait until a week before the next big DMC event to finish these kinds of projects.

I've learned my lesson on this a long time ago

I didn't take any pictures (I should keep a cheap camera I don't mind getting greasy in the garage). They didn't look bad but were "sloppy".