Popping out of second

[Jonty]

Hi all

My 5 speed transmission has been great but today after a long drive I went to downshift to second and it ground the gears but eventually went in but now it keeps popping out of second. It will go into gear and all other gears fine but won’t stay in second. Any ideas?

[Jonty]

And sorry just some more info. I’ve taken it for another 5mins ride after letting it sit for 30mins and it didn’t pop out (so far). I also have a failing rear seal.

[David T]

Could be a broken spring in the detent or the shifting mechanism is slightly out of adjustment or you just were not fully into 2nd gear and it popped out. Make sure you have enough oil in the trans. If it doesn't keep popping out then don't worry about it (but still check the level of oil). If you keep grinding gears it may be time for a clutch or bleed the clutch cylinder.

[Jonty]

Thanks Dave - it popped out at least 5 times the first time it did it but as I said the second short drive I didn’t have the issue. Will keep an eye on it. I have to pull the tranny to do the rear seal soon so it it happens again I guess I’ll have to get them to open it up. Thanks

[vwdmc16]

For years I had a very similar issue with my transmission but in 5th gear. Even after a full teardown reseal with new shift roll pins, fluid, It would still pop out of 5th gear. until I rebuilt my shifter mechanism up front in the frame, now it stays in gear all the time now.

[Jonty]

For years I had a very similar issue with my transmission but in 5th gear. Even after a full teardown reseal with new shift roll pins, fluid, It would still pop out of 5th gear. until I rebuilt my shifter mechanism up front in the frame, now it stays in gear all the time now.

Thanks - what was the actual issue with the shifter mechansium in the end?

[carbob81]

When only a few years or less old mine would pop out of 5th at random under high load.
Not always but enough to be very annoying.
Cable adjustment fixed it as it was not fully in. I'm thinking it was never right from the factory.
I have never had a problem in the lower gears.
Why it "ground" going in is a more interesting question. On any manual trans in anything this is not a good sign.
The synchro pulls you in but if the gear itself is chewed on the corners due to less than full engagement under use it shows up as a grind while matching.
A bad synch ring gives you a grind going in but not the pop out problem. In the old days you double clutched cars but that should not apply here.
With time bushing wear, cables stretch or loose lube, no longer going where they should.
Bob

PS: Took her out two weeks ago and she did it again while pushing on it. Popped close to top end.
Time to crawl under and check full movement at the receiving end.
Does anyone here put a rev limiter on their car for when this or a missed shift happens? Went into valve float but experience has taught me on other cars that this is never good.

[David T]

Popping out of gear is usually a sign that something is out of adjustment or a detent is not working for some reason. You must be able to shift (move) the gear selector ALL the way so that each gear is fully engaged. That might not happen because of an adjustment or simply some wear in the gearshift mechanism. Once in gear (fully in gear) the detent is supposed to keep you in gear. It won't if you are not fully into the gear OR the detent spring is bent or broken. Because of the design of our transmission, if you are popping out of 5th the very first thing I would check is the nut on the end of the shaft. If it loosened up it can cause you to pop out of gear. Catch it before it chews up the cover. Next item would be to carefully check the adjustments and see if there is any play (looseness) in the shift linkage. There are rubber bushings that wear and can prevent you from moving the linkage all the way into gear. Another odd thing to check are the motor and transmission mounts. A cracked mount will allow the drivetrain to shift and make it hard to get all the way into gear. While you are inspecting you can lubricate the linkage. Low oil in the transmission (or the wrong stuff) can also affect shifts. If you don't know what is in there or the last time it was changed it is time to do it. ALWAYS REMOVE THE LEVEL PLUG BEFORE YOU REMOVE THE DRAIN PLUG! If, for any reason, you can't get that level plug out (and you removed the drain plug) you can't get oil back in! Missing shifts is never a good thing and is how you can crack a transmission case, strip gears, break shafts, etc. If you have trouble with your 1-2 shifts it can be because of the notorious bent roll pins in the shifter rails. Usually caused by driving on a bad clutch because the hydraulic fluid leaked and you don't get full release so you are "forcing" shifts.

[vwdmc16]

Thanks - what was the actual issue with the shifter mechansium in the end?

Something about the mechanism up front was binding in a way that I think the shift rod wasn't going to the full end of its travel and therefore sort of always trying to push it back into neutral a small amount.
I had replaced the cross gate cable and adjusted it and the shift rods Every which way but nothing seemed to improve it. I was very surprised that fully disassembling, sandblasting, powder coating, and reassembling the shifter mechanism with fresh grease is what actually got it to stay in gear.

[Jonty]

Thanks all will check out the oil and linkage. I took it to work today and it was completely fine. As I mentioned it was quite odd and happened after a long drive. The gear would grind and not go in then when I got it in it kept popping out. Almost like it had a complete hissy fit. After getting home and leaving it a while it’s been fine. The PO did mention it sometimes popped out of 5th but I’ve never driven in 5th so havn’t experience it.