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Thread: Liner Seals

  1. #61
    Senior Member Parzival's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David T View Post
    If you use an ordinary paper or metal shim you should use some kind of sealer. The type of shim the manual says to use would not need any additional sealer. Not sure what the availability is of those shims anymore. Important to use a sealer meant for this application if you do use a sealer. Lotus had a big problem with liner seal sealer in their early V-8's and it resulted in a recall. The sealer must remain somewhat flexible. If it hardens it cracks. Even though the liner is locked in place by the step in the block and the clamping pressure of the heads, it still moves slightly. The sealer must be flexible to accommodate that movement and the thermal variations along with the different expansion and contraction rates of the steel liners and the aluminum block. Some sealer require a primer. Some have very specific times that it can be assembled in before it dries out. Important details. In all cases all of the sealing surfaces must be scrupulously clean.
    Ok, I will use the hylamar AF. Non hardening, and will remain soft and flexible in the mean time before the heads go back on.
    Whats your opinion on moving a liner and piston from one position to another? I can make them step from highest (most protrusion) to shortest (least protrusion) or are mine close enough since they are all within .001 of each other?

  2. #62
    Senior Member Giamanut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David T View Post
    If you use an ordinary paper or metal shim you should use some kind of sealer. The type of shim the manual says to use would not need any additional sealer. Not sure what the availability is of those shims anymore. Important to use a sealer meant for this application if you do use a sealer. Lotus had a big problem with liner seal sealer in their early V-8's and it resulted in a recall. The sealer must remain somewhat flexible. If it hardens it cracks. Even though the liner is locked in place by the step in the block and the clamping pressure of the heads, it still moves slightly. The sealer must be flexible to accommodate that movement and the thermal variations along with the different expansion and contraction rates of the steel liners and the aluminum block. Some sealer require a primer. Some have very specific times that it can be assembled in before it dries out. Important details. In all cases all of the sealing surfaces must be scrupulously clean.
    So Dave that is a great description thermal expansion alone would mandate somewhat flexible seals, and if anyone has seen real slow motion video of an old school engine block while running the deformation of the block is awe inspiring.
    I do wonder if it would be possible to pull a liner out and with the right ring compressor install it back over the Piston. Not a suggestion just a thought, from what I have seen it might be theoretically possible to change seals without dropping the Oil pan.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Parzival's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giamanut View Post
    So Dave that is a great description thermal expansion alone would mandate somewhat flexible seals, and if anyone has seen real slow motion video of an old school engine block while running the deformation of the block is awe inspiring.
    I do wonder if it would be possible to pull a liner out and with the right ring compressor install it back over the Piston. Not a suggestion just a thought, from what I have seen it might be theoretically possible to change seals without dropping the Oil pan.
    THAT would be hard! I think it would be easier to drop that pan, its not hard to do, and most of these cars need new engine mounts anyway.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Giamanut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parzival View Post
    THAT would be hard! I think it would be easier to drop that pan, its not hard to do, and most of these cars need new engine mounts anyway.
    Yes it would be easier to drop the pan, no real reason to do it any other way, just wonder if its possible. But then again i am a little off the wall.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Giamanut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parzival View Post
    THAT would be hard! I think it would be easier to drop that pan, its not hard to do, and most of these cars need new engine mounts anyway.
    As a side note aircraft engine cylinders are installed over the piston they also have cylinder base seals so yeah it would not be unprecedented, at all really. In fact aviation ring compressor tools are designed for tight spaces. Again not a suggestion just a thought!

  6. #66
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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  7. #67
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    Aircraft engines are a whole different type of engine. For example they are air cooled. The cylinders are designed so they can be changed without taking the con rod off the crank. Not feasible for the PRV. Good idea though.
    David Teitelbaum

  8. #68
    Senior Member Parzival's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David T View Post
    Aircraft engines are a whole different type of engine. For example they are air cooled. The cylinders are designed so they can be changed without taking the con rod off the crank. Not feasible for the PRV. Good idea though.
    Right, keeping this coolant where it belongs is the name of the game.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Giamanut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David T View Post
    Aircraft engines are a whole different type of engine. For example they are air cooled. The cylinders are designed so they can be changed without taking the con rod off the crank. Not feasible for the PRV. Good idea though.
    Agreed! Not feasible for the PRV. Too much cleaning and on and off measuring and piston re-positioning Be a challenge for sure. And likely not very sanitary.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Parzival's Avatar
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    Ok, update time!
    DMC-81 (aka Dana) and I have completed a ton of the work.
    First I removed the liners and pistons again and applied hylamar af to the gaskets.
    7C1C32BC-8DC7-4590-8876-77AE7C0A9564.jpg
    Re seated them, checked protrusion, and dry fit the reinz head gaskets.
    F1E8F5FF-298D-422E-8828-CA130EDD2CA7.jpg
    Then started on the heads.
    3C12023E-8CD1-4279-9F1E-5AF248809C29.jpg
    6553D39E-F57B-4A5D-9EF9-D0EDED99F243.jpg
    And on they go
    FA562E36-73A9-4E22-9459-63B88BB716E0.jpg
    Dana and I were taking our time with the timing.
    And then we able to move on the the timing cover, and had to call it a day at that point.
    008A0576-7060-4016-94EE-B0CA0AD1CFBB.jpg
    Still some reassembly left to go from here.

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