Hagerty 1-21-2020 = DeLorean confirms plans to produce “new” DMC-12s

[BLWNAWY]

"Originally Posted by SonnyV
DMCH would never lie or mislead their loyal customers. I got my new build last night and it is just as pictured. It's very sleek and the build quality is top notch. The staff were wonderful to work with and it was a pleasure to do business with them."

That one made my day. I wonder if anyone else got it?

[Elvis]

:-D

Now you must be long in the Delorean business, that one must be around 15 years old :-D

unforgotten !!!

[BLWNAWY]

:-D

Now you must be long in the Delorean business, that one must be around 15 years old :-D

unforgotten !!!

Only since 1986. And DMCH is the primary reason I am no longer in the DeLorean business.

[Hill Valley PD]

Haven't been around long enough to get the above, but I can only imagine...Huge fan of DMC MW though!

[BLWNAWY]

Haven't been around long enough to get the above, but I can only imagine.

Some background for those who may be new to the game - many years ago on the old DeLorean Mailing List, DMCH (Espey I believe) started posting fake complimentary praises, among other things, of their own business using the phony name SonnyV. A suspicious reader with skills way beyond mine was able to trace the IP address back to DMCH and outed them. They never, to my knowledge, apologized for that. As a footnote, about 3 years ago James Espey announced that he was taking over the old DML. My response, which surprisingly they actually published, was "Kool. Does that mean we can once again look forward to posts from Sonny V?" Since I no longer have a horse in this race, I can get away with stuff like that. They can't blacklist a non-customer.

And yes shops like DMCMW and Toby's are the saving grace of the car.

[dn010]

Espey/DMCH already deleted the posts back in the day, I'd guess they wouldn't restore those specific messages and for good reason. I'm sure they wish this was finally buried. Here is some of the story, unfortunately the links do not work.

On Nov 19, there was a message posted to the DML
signed by James Espey.

http://www.projectvixen.com/dmcnews-.../msg10116.html

It was later pointed out to me by someone that this
message was sent from "sonnyvr2000". For some reason,
this message has been removed from the Yahoo archives.

Later in the day, a similar message was posted by
James:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/46806

And, 3 more messages by Sonnyvr2000:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/46798

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/46799

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/46800


All four of the messages sent by Sonnyvr2000 came from
the same IP address, an address that is in common with
posts made by James from DMCH.

No big deal, because Sonny said he was in Houston
getting work done on his car. It is possible he was
using a computer at DMCH to send those posts before he
returned to his home in Springfield, MO.

Searching the DML Yahoo archives, it became obvious
that most of the posts made by Sonnyvr2000 have been
removed! The only record of any posts made by this
person are in quoted responses to his posts. Why is
this?

The only one I found was post 39097, which came from
an IP address in Houston, TX. It also happens to be on
the same ISP as DMCH uses (rr.com). But Sonny claims
he lives in MO. I remember James once saying he was
from or had family in MO.

So, I took a look at some e-mail archives of the DML
from 6/15/2001 to 9/30/2004, and searched for all sent
by sonnyvr2000

DATE SUBJECT IP
7/24/03 Re: Stainless Steel Ill 24.173.4.228
8/5/03 windshield antenna 24.173.4.228
8/13/03 Monroes and Gabriels 24.173.4.228
8/20/03 100404 Wheel bearings ! 24.173.4.228
9/4/03 Cleaner/Sealer 24.173.4.228
10/16/03Re: Door struts and do 24.173.4.228
12/1/03 Who wears XXXL? 24.173.4.228
1/7/04 Refurbished Fascias 200.9.59.10
1/12/04 Permacast wheels? 24.173.4.228
2/22/04 New angle drive receiv 24.242.224.139
3/7/04 DMCH's performance eng 24.242.228.133
3/8/04 DMCH's performance eng 24.173.4.228
3/11/04 clutch release bearing 24.173.4.228
3/11/04 Exhaust note of DMCH E 24.173.4.228
3/29/04 angle drive update 24.173.4.228

I included the subjects so you can all see the content
of these messages in your own archives, or at
http://www.projectvixen.com because they have been
removed from the Yahoo archives. Please look at the
content and evaluate for yourself.

The bulk of the mail came from 24.173.4.228, which
also happens to be the same IP address most of James
Espey posts come from. Do a search of the Yahoo
archives for that address and you will see.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...y=24.173.4.228

Furthermore (thanks Dave):

24.173.4.X (24.173.0.0/16) belongs to Roadrunner
(southeast). Roadrunner is available in MO, but only
in Kansas City, not Springfield.

24.242.224.139 and 24.242.228.133 both resolve DNS to
names with "houston.rr.com"

200.9.59.10 (200.9.48.0/20) belongs to Instituto
Costarricense de Electricidad y Telecom, based in San
Jose, Costa Rica

On 1/7/04 Sonny sent an email from 200.9.59.10, on the
same day James sent an email from 200.9.59.10 as well.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...38076?source=1


Assuming Sonnyvr2000 is a real person, why is it that
his posts are all missing from the official Yahoo
archives? And he sure does spend an awful lot of time
at DMCH, Odd for a guy who lives 700 miles away in
Springfield, MO (?), and seems to know a lot about
DeLoreans. Almost as much as someone who works for a
DeLorean vendor.

But, he asked for shipping estimates to Farmington, MO
63640 which is over 800 miles from Humble, TX.

(look @ the quoted text at the bottom)
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/38079

I would conclude that SonnyV is someone at DMCH. But,
is SonnyV a real person?

In the past 2 weeks, a few members of the DML have
been talking about this topic off line. The purpose of
getting others involved before "going public" was to
verify the information to be correct, and make a fair
decision on how to proceed.

I feel the group was unbiased, and we wrestled with
the pros and cons on what action to take. We concluded
that someone at DMCH was likely posing as "Sonny", and
decided that it was wrong to condone this behavior by
allowing it to remain hidden/be erased and that no one
in the DeLorean community should allow such to go
unnoticed. Ultimately, we decided to let the community
see and think for themselves as to what, if anything,
should be done.

[Michael]

The links at DMCtoday.com work just fine. Post #53 has all the info you need.

http://dmctoday.com/showthread.php?8...ghlight=Sonnyv

In the explanation they instruct you not to discuss or talk about the matter and direct you to bring your concerns to DMCH. By talking about it here, we are breaking DMCH mandate.

[Malevy]

Some background for those who may be new to the game - many years ago on the old DeLorean Mailing List, DMCH (Espey I believe) started posting fake complimentary praises, among other things, of their own business using the phony name SonnyV. A suspicious reader with skills way beyond mine was able to trace the IP address back to DMCH and outed them. They never, to my knowledge, apologized for that. As a footnote, about 3 years ago James Espey announced that he was taking over the old DML. My response, which surprisingly they actually published, was "Kool. Does that mean we can once again look forward to posts from Sonny V?" Since I no longer have a horse in this race, I can get away with stuff like that. They can't blacklist a non-customer.

And yes shops like DMCMW and Toby's are the saving grace of the car.

That was me. :P

The mods of the DML at the time held my post for a few days while they "discussed" it.

Stephen did make a followup post to the DML explaining why they did it.

[BLWNAWY]

That was me. :P

I knew that, Marc, but did not feel at liberty to say so.

And I can't access the DMCtoday.com files without joining, which I may do later if I'm that bored.

On the outside, looking in occasionally.

DT

[Michael]

I knew that, Marc, but did not feel at liberty to say so.

And I can't access the DMCtoday.com files without joining, which I may do later if I'm that bored.

On the outside, looking in occasionally.

DT

It was a move to try and keep the bots at bay. I have deleted over 10k and still delete about 1,000 oer week. We may be only less than 500 members, but what we lack in numbers we gain in humanity.