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Thread: Fuel Mixture Problems - Car won't start when mixture set properly

  1. #31
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    I'm sure that kit can be hooked up to read both. I have one similar. I have to admit, mine is Chinese junk, but it works somewhat.

    Anyways, it looks like you are reading control pressure right now. It's been awhile since I did this, but 45 psi control pressure when cold I think is OK. Does it go up some when warmed up? It would really be nice if you could read max pressure before you remove the PPV. I don't like disturbing that because it's easy to cut the O-ring when installing it. If you are determined to remove the PPV, have some spares. Those O-rings are metric and difficult to find.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helirich View Post
    I'm sure that kit can be hooked up to read both. I have one similar. I have to admit, mine is Chinese junk, but it works somewhat.
    Hey, if I take a few detailed pictures of the kit would you help me to figure out which fittings to use where? I'd love to not have to return this kit if it will work for both readings but, for the life of me, I cannot figure out how to use it to get both readings.

    The biggest problem with this kit is that the ends of the piece that has the valve in it has female threaded ends, and they are different thread patterns! The kit only has like 1 or 2 fittings in it that will thread into those sockets... It seems impossible.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikeygg View Post
    Hey, if I take a few detailed pictures of the kit would you help me to figure out which fittings to use where? I'd love to not have to return this kit if it will work for both readings but, for the life of me, I cannot figure out how to use it to get both readings.

    The biggest problem with this kit is that the ends of the piece that has the valve in it has female threaded ends, and they are different thread patterns! The kit only has like 1 or 2 fittings in it that will thread into those sockets... It seems impossible.
    Yea, take a pic. I do remember that I had to hook it up kind of "round a bout". They didn't make it easy. I believe one end threaded directly into the WUR. Then the other hooked to the fuel line that I removed from the WUR. So it put the guage in between.

  4. #34
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikeygg View Post
    @Ron, the stock fuel circuit was still complete with the gauge installed. I used the gauge set's banjo bolt replacement that added a quick disconnect for the gauge so it shouldn't be with the valve shut.
    Ah, you did have it in-line...So no, it shouldn't be a set pressure. It should read ~20psi cold, ~33psi @ 70F, and ~45 psi warm (WUR/CPR temps). The exact temps-pressures are in the chart on the same page in the WSM I posted above.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helirich View Post
    Yea, take a pic. I do remember that I had to hook it up kind of "round a bout". They didn't make it easy. I believe one end threaded directly into the WUR. Then the other hooked to the fuel line that I removed from the WUR. So it put the guage in between.
    @Helirich, here's a couple of pictures I snapped of the equipment:
    Fuel Pressure Test Kit Markup.jpg
    Fuel Pressure Valved Hose Markup.jpg

    I took a picture of the only piece in the kit with a valve and it has two female threaded ends on it. I put a green box around the only piece (banjo fitting) that will thread into that end with the tighter threading. Sorry about the sizes of these pictures, they were much larger until I uploaded them to this forum. The size literally went from 3.45MB to 125KB. Let me know if you want more detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Ah, you did have it in-line...So no, it shouldn't be a set pressure. It should read ~20psi cold, ~33psi @ 70F, and ~45 psi warm (WUR/CPR temps). The exact temps-pressures are in the chart on the same page in the WSM I posted above.
    Yeah, that's good to know. I'm pretty sure that the fuel pressure was 45psi right off the bat so indications are that my WUR may be bad/unable to regulate the warm-up pressure which makes sense with my symptoms. Set fuel mixture close to correct for cold engine is way too rich for driving (never gets leaned out by WUR) and set fuel mixture correct for driving is too lean for cold engine and starts (because the fuel never gets enriched by the WUR). I'm going to double check that is how the car responds.

    If it does operate that way, do you concur? Does that point to my WUR being bad?
    Attached Images
    Last edited by spikeygg; 08-30-2021 at 08:43 PM.

  6. #36
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    That does look like my kit, but I will double check tomarror.

    On the WUR, if you remove the incoming banjo, (towards the front of the car) there could be some fine copper screens Jamed down the hole. If you remove them with a pic, you may find them clogged. I kind of destroyed mine, so I left the out. I didn't get new ones with the rebuild kit, but it's been running fine so far. If they are clogged, you will have high control pressure and lean conditions.

  7. #37
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikeygg View Post
    Yeah, that's good to know. I'm pretty sure that the fuel pressure was 45psi right off the bat so indications are that my WUR may be bad/unable to regulate the warm-up pressure which makes sense with my symptoms. Set fuel mixture close to correct for cold engine is way too rich for driving (never gets leaned out by WUR) and set fuel mixture correct for driving is too lean for cold engine and starts (because the fuel never gets enriched by the WUR). I'm going to double check that is how the car responds.

    If it does operate that way, do you concur? Does that point to my WUR being bad?
    Yep, that's the way it should operate -- The WUR is fed primary pressure, which is constant, and it dumps extra pressure to the port on the FD that goes back to the tank to vary the control pressure.
    ...If you read good primary pressure AND always get 45 psi control pressure, the WUR is the main suspect. It could be toast or have a partial blockage anywhere from its input port to the tank.

    (If its screen is clogged (totally blocked), the control pressure would match primary pressure. If the screen is missing, odds are that trash is preventing it from raising the pressure and you are adjusting the CO screw to compensate...assuming it is always 45 psi. Or it may just be bad.)

    As you probably guessed, without knowing the primary pressure, the other readings are about useless.
    (Swap gauges while you can return the set you have ;-)

  8. #38
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    OK, I looked at my kit and it seems to have all the same pieces, but they are not arranged the same. In any case, one thing I noticed right away is I have an adapter threaded in one end of the long tube. I must have left it there from my last use.

    Here is a pic of how I think I had it. The right side has an old fuel line in it to show you how it's hooked. The left side would thread in your WUR. Right side would have the line you removed from the regulator in place of my old fuel line.

    IMG_0544.jpg

    I hope you can see (3) fittings on my gage hose. I believe those three fittings are in your box in these locations.

    1. Male to female - second row, first fitting.

    2. Banjo to male threads- third row, third or forth fitting. Next to your circled fitting.

    3. Male to male- first row, last (or seventh) fitting.

    Hope this helps

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helirich View Post
    OK, I looked at my kit and it seems to have all the same pieces, but they are not arranged the same. In any case, one thing I noticed right away is I have an adapter threaded in one end of the long tube. I must have left it there from my last use.

    ...
    Thanks for the detail Helirich, I took a very close look at my set again following your instructions and the problem I have is that on my hoses that have the valve the ends are two different threadings. I grabbed all the pieces you listed and put them on the carpet in this picture:

    Fittings_Markup_Small.jpg

    The only fitting that I can thread into that hose end is the one at the end of the squiggly arrow. You can see that the other three fittings have a different thread pitch, they only thread into the female side by two threads and get stuck. I just pulled the banjo from the top of my WUR to see if it would thread in and the diameter is too small.

    I wonder if both the hose ends on your valved hose have the same threading on both ends -- I think if mine had the same threading I could use it like you're describing.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikeygg View Post
    Thanks for the detail Helirich, I took a very close look at my set again following your instructions and the problem I have is that on my hoses that have the valve the ends are two different threadings. I grabbed all the pieces you listed and put them on the carpet in this picture:

    Fittings_Markup_Small.jpg

    The only fitting that I can thread into that hose end is the one at the end of the squiggly arrow. You can see that the other three fittings have a different thread pitch, they only thread into the female side by two threads and get stuck. I just pulled the banjo from the top of my WUR to see if it would thread in and the diameter is too small.

    I wonder if both the hose ends on your valved hose have the same threading on both ends -- I think if mine had the same threading I could use it like you're describing.
    My hoses have differnt threads also. I remember now that I really had to tighten one of the fittings to get it to stop leaking. Maybe it was slightly differnt threads. Maybe that's why I left it together. The whole thing is chinease junk. But I got it to work.

    Ps, that wasn't the only problem I had. One of the "quick disconnects" sometimes would not let pressure through. I think the shrader would get stuck. I was all set to buy a new one when I got my car running good. The problem with them is they all look the same. Hard to verify where they are made. I was just going to buy a more expensive one and hope for the best.
    Last edited by Helirich; 09-01-2021 at 09:42 AM.

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