Delorean Motor Company (DMC) Texas threatening to sue Delorean owners now

[BLWNAWY]

It's been waaay to long ago for me to remember the sequence of events, but there was your Specialty Automotive and also John Hervey's SpecialTAuto, both serving the DeLorean community with confusingly similar names (which is the original topic of this thread). I'm curious if you have any insights from that experience that might benefit either the community, DMCH, or deloreanrental.com in this situation?

I addressed that issue somewhat in the "John Hervey Passed Away" thread at #17:

"Quote Originally Posted by DMCVegas View Post
Then there was the confusion between "Special-T-Auto" and Darryl Tinnerstet's "Specialty Automotive" in Washington that added to much confusion for buyers, and consternation for Darryl (probably even a factor as to why he retired from the business).

Not really. John and I only spoke once, about his choice of business name and the ensuing "confusion". We had different business practices and goals, and co-existed. The main factor in my decision to retire was DMCH who, after buying out KAPAC, refused to honor their policy of selling wholesale to other smaller vendors. I had a large inventory of my own, but not everything my customers would need. And you can't buy at retail and resell at retail. Upon purchasing my business Toby resolved that issue by becoming a branch of DMCH, something I was unable (due to location) and unwilling to do. That worked for a while, but as with many such unions a "dissolution" was inevitable.

RIP John.

Darryl T
Retired, restoring cars, building street rods
Still lurking here daily"

As noted we just co-existed. There was never any thought of legal action as I don't operate that way. We "traveled in different spheres" I guess - didn't overlap that much. But he did cause me some grief when his customers, having issues with his service or parts, would call me to complain due to the name similarity. I straightened them out...

[BLWNAWY]

Here's the article in Forbes where Fake DMC says they paid "...less than $1 million. The retail value of those parts, Wynne says, is $35 million."

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0919/090.html

At the time I was in constant contact with Jane at KAPAC. The asking price was considerably higher, and understand it went for just under 1 mil. But I had to factor in the logistics and cost of transporting all of the parts 2/3 of the way across the country, plus the cost of a warehouse large enough to hold them, and the fact that I still had a full time job that I was not interesting (then) of giving up. As luck would have it I did end up retiring (the first of 3 times) in August of 2000. And now there is a huge warehouse available just across the freeway from my house. Oh well.

[AdamKontras]

Your “friend” literally trademarked the name “Delorean Rental” and that’s why they’re going after him.

So yes, if you’re attempting to trademark the name DELOREAN they will give you a cease and desist. He’s now trying to garner support by acting like they’re coming after everyone. No, just people arrogant enough to try and TRADEMARK A TRADEMARKED NAME.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DeCobra]

I was shown a cease and desist from a friend who owns a delorean rental website that they are now threatening legal action against anyone with the name "delorean" in the domain name as trademark! This is going to cause a HUGE stink in the community I think! There are a LOT of websites that use the name for rentals, parts, and even just community forums. Pretty bad on their part as most of these guys, including my friend, bring a LOT of positive awareness with renting out their cars for events and such. He's now consulting an attorney but doesn't seem like anyone in the community can help. Anyone here have any suggestions, as this may set a precedent for everyone moving forward.

Disclaimer: I am not giving legal advice but sharing information you may want to talk to a lawyer about and strongly recommend your friend (or anyone for that matter) seek legal assistance from a trademark lawyer.

I'm surprised no one has raised this yet (what no lawyer DeLorean owners in here?) but your friend should research "Nominative Fair Use" trademark law among a few other fair use law doctrines.

"Nominative Fair Use" - is when a defendant uses the trademark of another company/trademark owner to refer to that trademark owners product in a manner that isn't deceptive or is likely to cause confusion as to whether the trademark owner sponsors or endorses the defendant's product.
"permits use of another's trademark to refer to the trademark owner's goods and services associated with the mark. Here, the trademark is used only to describe the thing rather than to identify its source, and does not imply sponsorship or endorsement."

Nominative fair use is used by all sorts of businesses and shops that service and/or sell parts for automotive brands they don't own the trademark for, to describe their goods and services. E.g. a shop may have "Ford Parts", "GM Parts", or that they are a Ford repair shop etc. to describe the type of goods they sell without trying to claim they are either Ford or GM or that Ford or GM endorse their shop.

There's a lot more to dig into with trademark law, but I hope this high level description helps him understand where he may need to start.

That being said, I'm not picking sides and I understand why DMC Houston has to protect their trademark, but IMHO they need better lawyers who can wisely pick the right cases to pursue so DMCH doesn't waste money and anger their community. I'd even go so far as to recommend that DMCH have a special low cost/no cost licensing program for the mom & pop shops that helps protect DMCH's trademark(s) while saving them money and grief, as well as saving money and grief for the people who help keep their product alive.

[MrChocky]

So while my divorce (I got my house, business, and cars) and subsequent move certainly affected my business, the heavy-handed edict of DMCH was the nail in the coffin. I retained ownership of BLWNAWY for another year but wanted to move on to other interests so let it go. Eleven years later I ended up buying it back, restored it again, and let it go again. I think this time I'm done, but who knows? At current prices affording another D is unlikely. Of the 7 DeLoreans I owned in 18 years, and one 11 years later, all but one cost me $10,000 or less. Try doing that today.

I personally find this history fascinating. So much of the "dark ages" seems to have been poorly documented, or glossed over, or known by people no longer in the community.

Anyway, regarding the mythic 10K car, one (a very far gone car that had been sitting in a field for decades) did actually just sell a few days ago for this price to an enthusiastic young guy. If he's very lucky, he can keep the part expenses
under $20K - new drivetrain and frame for starters. I don't know how much your inventory played into your costs - probably a great deal, since the aggregate of parts, as you know, and end up being quite expensive.

So, it's possible still, just pretty rare. DMCH are now advertising $100K cars - ones they've done a full restoration on of course.

[Malevy]

FWIW, I have no personal vendetta against DMCH, James, Stephen, or anyone else who works there. I actually consider these people my long time friends. That said, I have no problem calling out my friends for bad behavior. DMCH provides a needed service to the DeLorean community, and more so a service to those looking to join the community.

With that in mind....

They bought those rights when nobody wanted them and have done very well out of it.

In the mid 90s they bought the rights to use the name and logo of a long defunct company.

Mr. AussieDMC- You continue to perpetuate the incorrect information that they "bought the rights". They did not buy any intellectual property. KPAC never owned any of the intellectual property, so it was not theirs to sell. DMCH simply took some artwork that had already been in use by the original DMC, and quietly registered it with the USPTO. The block letter "DMC" (like, on the grill) was already EXPIRED in the USPTO system, and in the public domain. What they registered was the stylized "DMC" with an outline around it (which was also used by the original DMC, but never registered). DMCH then used this registration to send S&D letters to anyone who used *any* DMC artwork. Although people like me discussed it ad nauseam for YEARS on the DML (DeLorean Mailing List, which was the only internet meeting place at the time). No one (who could) would stand up to DMCH, and here we are 20 years later and they have registered other forms of artwork including (somehow?!) the expired block "DMC" artwork. This essentially boils down to "squatting", IMO.

Please take note, all articles about DMCH (interviews with Stephen, etc) say that they "acquired" the name and trademark, etc. By design, so people think they bought it.

I hope no owners or clubs are dumb enough to give credence to Fake DMC offering "waivers" when it comes to our cars.

Signing such an agreement increases the DMCH claim to the intellectual property. It establishes that it is accepted that they own it. If this ever makes it before a judge (I doubt it ever will), and DMCH is forced to show the lineage of the intellectual property, it will be obvious that they simply made a claim on something that had been public domain for almost 20 years. Having other entities agree that DMCH owns it *now* will only help their case.

I personally find this history fascinating. So much of the "dark ages" seems to have been poorly documented, or glossed over, or known by people no longer in the community.

Not exactly. The information is out there, if you look for it. All of my DML posts from when this was going on are still out there on the internet. They may have been removed from the official DML archive (since it is now controlled by DMCH), but there are other public copies... and countless private copies. The reality is, most people in the DMC community don't care and NO ONE outside of the community cares.

That said, so many newcomers are looking to make a buck themselves, and they seem to "know it all". DeLorean Rental sites are an excellent example of some new person coming along and trying to make money on the dead carcass of DeLorean Motor Company. DMCH was just the 1st to do it. IP registrations, registering the name "DeLorean Motor Company" (in Texas), and buying the parts from KPAC made them the most successful. Lots of us are making some money from our DeLorean hobby, but the difference here is making money off of something you own (service, bought, or built) versus something you just made a claim on (but never bought or created). In that context, someone who creates a web site to link DeLorean owners with people seeking to rent them (even though we were doing it way before these sites came along) has just as much right to the name "DeLorean" as anyone else... Again, IMO.

[MrChocky]

Not exactly. The information is out there, if you look for it. All of my DML posts from when this was going on are still out there on the internet. They may have been removed from the official DML archive (since it is now controlled by DMCH), but there are other public copies... and countless private copies. The reality is, most people in the DMC community don't care and NO ONE outside of the community cares.

Well, I care. Not really for the politics but for the history. And certainly "knowing where to look" was exactly what I meant when I said "poorly documented" (I have looked and asked before). I'm happy to be pointed at any and all relevant
commentary. I promise to read it, on my honor. I've only been in the community a few years now, and although I read most stuff obsessively, I'm well aware there's much out there that I don't know about.

[aotmfilms]

I still am having a hard time believing this is true or at least, the entirely of the complaint. I just can't wrap my head around people who have dedicated their business model (for the most part) of serving the owners and community, to just start going after individual owners over something that was obviously not intended to infringe on their trademark.

It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. How much money are other DeLorean branded parts sites siphoning away from them?...and this time machine rental guy is the guy they consider enemy#1...or is it just low hanging fruit? I seriously doubt that any calls to them will be answered or even publicly addressed. Not on this or any legal action past present or future.

None of this adds up.

Agreed.

[Helirich]

Here's the article in Forbes where Fake DMC says they paid "...less than $1 million. The retail value of those parts, Wynne says, is $35 million."

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0919/090.html

I understand that you may have some legitimate beefs with DMCH, but when I read this, it sounds like you are criticizing them for making a good business decision. First, I canÂ’t say it was a good decision. Just because Wynne said it was worth 35 mil, doesnÂ’t make it true. Even if it was, IÂ’m sure anyone could have out bid him. Quite honestly, I suspect he could have made more money with that investment elsewhere.

One thing I know about is “the appearance of wealth”. I use to be partners in a helicopter business. Anybody in the helicopter business must be a millionaire. At least, every body thought we were millionaires. Having my own helicopter certainly promotes that image. The fact is, we were struggling the whole time in that business. I had many employees that made more money than me every year. We had incredible gross income, but we had just as incredible expenses. When we sold out, it was no big windfall. I made far more money as a pilot then in that business.

I suspect Wynne is in that same boat. I sincerely hope he does well. It will not benefit us for him to go out of business. If, as you say, he is just in it for the money, why doesnÂ’t he sell out for millions?

[Malevy]

Well, I care. Not really for the politics but for the history. And certainly "knowing where to look" was exactly what I meant when I said "poorly documented" (I have looked and asked before). I'm happy to be pointed at any and all relevant
commentary. I promise to read it, on my honor. I've only been in the community a few years now, and although I read most stuff obsessively, I'm well aware there's much out there that I don't know about.

http://www.projectvixen.com/

Scroll down, and you will see a link to the archives. There is a basic search engine you can use, or go through the index (which will be very time consuming). http://www.projectvixen.com/dmcnews%2Darchive/

http://www.projectvixen.com/archives/index.htm

Look for terms like USPTO, Trademark, Copyright, etc.

While you are at it, pretty much every DeLorean question that has ever been asked is answered in there too.