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Thread: VIN 11596 Frame Swap - a rolling frame-off restoration

  1. #271
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,678

    My VIN:    11596

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    Anyone try this: https://www.deloreango.com/us/courte...tment-led.html

    That or Amazon/eBay options - they may have a tighter fit.
    Steve Bano reports that this light fits and is quite bright but very cold color -

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09124ZH1R...HS5AdW1kWKZ_uE
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  2. #272
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,678

    My VIN:    11596

    I've been planning a 4-day road trip in my DeLorean for next month so I've been focusing on making sure I'm ready and reliable for all situations on the road. One thing I've been thinking about doing for a while is getting tint installed on the windows. We all know the DeLorean can get pretty hot inside and the air conditioning, while adequate, isn't as efficient as a modern car. Anything you can do to help out the AC is a good idea. I met with a tint installer last month who runs a one-man-show business just a couple miles from my house. I got great vibes from him in person while going over the car and felt like he is a perfectionist just like I am. We agreed to install 50% strength ceramic tint on all the windows except the rear window. This is because when looking over your shoulder for a lane change, you would be looking through two tinted windows instead of just one. The ceramic tint blocks 99% of UV and over 85% of IR , both protecting the interior from sun damage and greatly reducing cabin temps.

    Prior to the install appointment I removed the rear view mirror, the upper door panels, the toll booth windows (so it would be easier to get the film on perfectly), and the door headliners (so he wouldn't get soapy water on them). While he didn't ask me to do this, I did it to help ensure a quality install and he really appreciated the effort made when I dropped the car off.

    Since getting the tint on, I have noticed massively reduced interior temperatures especially when the car is left outside in the parking lot at work, and the A/C is now usually only on fan speed 1 or 2 when it used to be on 3 or 4. The subtle darkening of the windows looks really nice but isn't so dark that it's hard to see through. In short, I have should have done this years ago!

    The cost was $450 installed.

    I have not yet installed the rear view mirror yet - I have a new adhesive pad for it but I haven't decided if i should adhere it to the tint, or if I should have him cut out a square for the pad. I am going to stop by on Friday and see what he thinks.

    PXL_20240404_114934489 (1).jpg

    Right after driving home from the tint shop. You can see the 50% tint is not that strong which is what I was going for. I was really only looking for UV and IR protection. I don't really like dark tint - my brother's car has dark tint all around and it's actually hard to see at night.



    PXL_20240404_134221335.jpg
    The installer recommended parking the car outside under the sun while at work the next couple of days to help get the adhesive to cure and burn off the residual moisture from the soapy solution used to move the film into place. I also bought a Damp-Rid bucket at Lowes and left it on the passenger floor to help remove the humidity from the curing process.


    PXL_20240404_102537633.jpg

    Good illustration of what 50% tint looks like on the glass. We tinted the windshield, doors, and rear quarter glass.
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  3. #273
    Senior Member
    Join Date:  Dec 2018

    Posts:    1,250

    I didn?t realize you could glue the mirror on tint. My tinder had to go around mine.

  4. #274
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,678

    My VIN:    11596

    Quote Originally Posted by Helirich View Post
    I didn?t realize you could glue the mirror on tint. My tinder had to go around mine.
    Well that's what I'm saying. I am going to see what he thinks about it, he might decide to cut a square out of the film where the pad is so I can stick directly to the windshield again. I would prefer this so that I don't have issues damaging the film if I have to remove the rear view mirror for some reason later, but I don't want to be responsible for cutting the square out considering there's a lifetime warranty on the film.
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  5. #275
    Senior Member SupercoolBill's Avatar
    Join Date:  Oct 2021

    Posts:    937

    Looks so awesome man!

    Sent from my SM-F946U1 using Tapatalk

  6. #276
    DMC Timeless's Avatar
    Join Date:  Nov 2016

    Location:  SW FL

    Posts:    744

    Club(s):   (DCF) (DCO) (DCUK)

    All my cars have ceramic film and it truly is a blessing especially in S.FL. I am most likely going to add another layer to the rear glass as it's too light for night driving. Most cars headlights pour tons of annoying light into the mirror when they're driving behind me.
    ~LXA~
    Dunmurry | Stuttgart | Leipzig | Munich | Tochigi | Fremont | Bratislava | Sindelfingen | Kansas City | Oakville | Coventry

  7. #277
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,678

    My VIN:    11596

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    All my cars have ceramic film and it truly is a blessing especially in S.FL. I am most likely going to add another layer to the rear glass as it's too light for night driving. Most cars headlights pour tons of annoying light into the mirror when they're driving behind me.
    Yep that's a thing. Guess I don't drive at night much but when I do I dim the mirror and angle the side mirrors out!

    Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  8. #278
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,678

    My VIN:    11596

    Today I went back to the tint shop to talk to the owner and see what he thinks about the rear view mirror attachment. He immediately offered to cut a hole in the film for the mirror to attach to the embedded windshield pad. A few minutes later, some alcohol cleaner, and a new sticky tape, and I'm 100% back together again.

    Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  9. #279
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,678

    My VIN:    11596

    This last weekend I took the car out for a spin after it sat for a week while I was on vacation. All seemed fine... until I pulled into my garage, got out, and found coolant dripping down the belt-side of the engine onto the floor! A quick investigation revealed a valley full of coolant and overflowing. I knew it must be either a hose behind the water pump or the water pump backplate. All of which I just R&R'd a few weeks ago.

    That evening I had it all torn down and, with the intake manifold removed, I could see coolant dripping out of the pump back seal into the casting void. Damn! I pulled the pump off the car and set it in a vise and checked the five M7 allen screws that hold the pump back on. All were about 9 ft lb tight. On disassembly of the back it was easy to remove the back from the paper gasket which was still adhered to the pump itself with hylomar AF (I only put hylomar on one side). Since the pump itself was new, and the gasket was new, I couldn't believe coolant would leak through the hylomar so I assume it was leaking through the dry paper side. The gasket was still in good shape so I laid a thin bead of gray Right Stuff 90 minute gasket masker, set the back on again, and this time torqued to 11 ft lb. After a couple hours (which I spent the time cleaning up spilled coolant, etc.) I refit the pump and reinstalled the top end of the engine. Pressure tested overnight before refilling.

    No more leaks! Very strange that I have put at least a couple hundred miles on the car since changing the water pump with no issue until suddenly it "let loose". I'm going to say the lesson learned is I should have put some sealant on both sides of the gasket and I think 9 ft lbs was a bit loose.
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

  10. #280
    Senior Member 82DMC12's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  Olathe, KS

    Posts:    1,678

    My VIN:    11596

    While I had the intake manifold off, I got into a side project that I've had simmering for a while. It's known that DMC obtained the PRV engine (B28F) from Renault. In order to meet USA emissions regulations, a number of changes were made including adding a catalytic converter, licensing the Lambda system from Volvo, and, at the last minute, swapping out the distributor for a more "eco-friendly" model.

    On opening our DMC distributors, you'll find a mechanical weight set marked "623" which has two weights, one of which as a spring attached to it. This mechanical advance set doesn't provide any mechanical advance until 1500 RPM, no increase until 2500 RPM, and then a steady amount more up to 3500 RPM.

    In Euro-spec B28's , a different distributor is used which has a different weight set inside, providing much more spark advance at a lower RPM (already 20 degrees of advance at 1500 RPM). The result, supposedly, would be a bit more power at lower RPM's at the expense of fuel mileage.

    I was curious about what it would be like to "de-federalize" my car so I have already installed DPI Spec exhaust (with high flow cats), installed free flow air intake, and now converted my distributor to Euro specification.

    The hardest part was finding a European distributor, which I was able to get through another DeLorean owner who already did the conversion. Once I had the weight set, the next challenge was dismantling my DMC distributor and swapping over the shaft with "229" weight set. This is done by removing the vacuum advance system from the distributor, tapping out a pin that holds the drive gear to the end of the shaft, and then tapping the shaft out of the housing. There are a number of metal washers and shims as well as two fiber or composite shims. The composite shims are NLA so if you need a new one, you'll need to buy a donor distributor to harvest parts from.

    The shims are also rare but I was able get quite a few of them from a Bosch distributor repair shop in Arizona. There are four sizes of shims - about 0.09mm, 0.17mm, 0.30mm and 0.40mm. The shim(s) go between the drive gear and the first composite washer. The idea is you need to shim the drive shaft so that the shaft turns freely without drag or being too loose. I ended up mixing and matching a couple of shims in order to get a gap of .008". I put the vacuum advance back in and re-gapped the reluctor to factory spec.

    Once reassembled I put the distributor back in and timed the engine to 10 deg BTDC which is what 1980-1982 European market B28's were timed to. DMC specifies 13 deg in the shop manual.

    First thing I've noticed is the idle actually sounds smoother. There isn't as much gentle wobble in engine idle sound. There is still a bit of that characteristic unevenness but it sounds less noticeable. On the street, my "seat-o-pants-o-meter" does seem to feel a bit more pep in lower RPM's. So far I have found no downsides to the conversion so I think I'll run with it for a while and see if I still like it. I'll check my spark plugs after a few hundred miles and make sure I'm not sooting or anything else unexpected.

    PXL_20240329_144037520.jpg

    DMC distributor with single spring and smaller weights

    PXL_20240329_144041567.jpg

    European market mechanical advance with heavier weights and dual springs

    PXL_20240329_144025637 (1).jpg

    Both shafts with weights attached next to each other on the bench. Identical length and other characteristics.

    PXL_20240416_033106241.jpg

    Shimmed and gap set to .008". I found I was not able to simply reuse the DMC shims, I had to obtain some thinner Bosch shims because the drive gear was a hair away from lining up with the pin hole. If I forced the pin inside, the shaft was too tight to turn freely. That would have destroyed the fiber washers in short order.

    423737734_7645667662118632_3987196153096093713_n (1).jpg
    Timing spec of 10 deg BTDC for european PRV's without USA emissions controls

    423737639_886838579793082_5538722684089506763_n (1).jpg

    Very different advance curves! Euro distributor on top, DMC distributor below. As you can see the Euro will provide a lot more advance at a much lower RPM, steadily climbing until leveling off.
    Andy Lien

    VIN 11596 Jan 1982 build - owned since Nov. 2000!
    Total frame-off restoration completed 2021-2023

    Photography and Backpacking is life.

    Was Fargo, ND
    Now Kansas City

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