Karma Automotive LLC sues Reimagined Automotive LLC

[BladeBronson]

DMCH has been a blight on the DeLorean community.

Oh come on! I think they've made some mistakes in the last 25 years and given your username, there's one in particular that we both agree was a shit move. But a blight? Ordering parts from DMC is a straight-up pleasure. The website is easy to use, the parts diagrams are excellent, the products are shipped fast and packaged well.

[dmcman73]

Yeah I can't understand any of the positives of DMCH really... those NOS parts would always be around. When DMCH came into existence the cost of NOS parts went up. Regarding "flipping" cars... Lately, the franchise locations have been bidding on cars against each other, and fight over cars from private sellers which has increased prices for everyone looking to buy. They even bid against every day buyers in the DeLorean community at major auctions so they can sell for more! They are making 25-30 percent or more on cars.

In the end, they are a business that exists to make money. If there are people out there willing to pay the prices that they charge, then there is a market and that's who they will cater to.

And let's be real, there have been a number of "private" people that have purchased cars and flipped them for so much more money, this isn't anything new except it's a business that's doing it.

[SonnyV]

Oh come on! I think they've made some mistakes in the last 25 years and given your username, there's one in particular that we both agree was a shit move. But a blight? Ordering parts from DMC is a straight-up pleasure. The website is easy to use, the parts diagrams are excellent, the products are shipped fast and packaged well.

I got involved with these cars in 2004; eventually buying one in 2006. There was a shift with DMCH when John passed. It started with the "new build" program. That was the first of DMCH growing into the entity they are today. It was criticized then and it spiraled into the "They're building new cars in Houston" lie that has been more obnoxious than cocaine jokes. It's also when they shifted from parts/service centers to a company that focused on "Officially Licensed" products; collaboration with clothing brands, watches, money from Hot Wheels, the BTTF royalties, etc.

No other car parts vendor goes after owners clubs for using the logo for the cars or people reproducing period accessories/improved parts; namely all the side stripe sets that have been threatened with litigation. GM is less litigious of people selling things with the Pontiac or Chevy logo and that hasn't hurt their identity.

Yes; they made parts available and accessible to most, but that has been more of a supporting role in their efforts to gain media attention from any outlet naïve enough to run the re-hash of how they're building new cars and would have were it not for whatever convenient excuse they could find. They've tried to make DeLorean into a lifestyle brand and relied on the captive pool of owners to fund their nonsense. One could also argue about the nepotism; Cameron being put in charge of DMC California and on the board at DMC Reimagined, but that's minor.

DPI and DeLorean Go have shown that there is a demand for quality new products instead of dusty and dirty components; DPIs commitment to offering parts in stainless is impressive and Go has shipping and processing speed that is astounding. DMCH continues to sell 40-year-old engines that have not seen service since before Dunmurry closed. Being beholden to DMCH for bespoke parts doesn't redeem them.

[DMC-81]

DeLorean Motor Company did not "fail", they were essentially shut down by the British government for political reasons.

Marc, you are entitled to your opinion, but that is a stretch. The company did fail for reasons well documented. I'm not even going to debate this.

As for DMCH, I know you found and exposed the whole Sonny V thing, (Am I correct?) so I get that you are likely slanted against the company. That's your prerogative. It probably doesn't matter that James apologized here either.

I have a different experience and opinion based on many transactions and conversations with the people of the company. I have bought from all vendors so my experience is not narrow, but varied. None of the vendors are without flaw.

I don't think that the DeLorean Motor Company name was chosen to create confusion in the community. Under the DMCH era, the community has progressed from buying parts from Consolidated, to a multi location dealership business, and to potentially restarting DeLorean as an OE vehicle manufacturer. If successful, the Alpha 5 will likely go to an exclusive few, but I like the Delorean SUV as a potential future vehicle.

I get that many think they cried wolf too many times with the new car attempts, but success is rarely achieved on the first try. We will see what is revealed this week at Pebble Beach.

[Malevy]

but the bottom line is if JZD really cared about them he would have better prepared things. I can't blame Sally for cashing in for a quick buck and not worrying about her step-children but she could have been better represented by counsel in hindsight. In the end the lawyers always win no matter who wins or loses.

David, you have zero information on this topic and are are making incorrect statements.

Marc, you are entitled to your opinion, but that is a stretch. The company did fail for reasons well documented. I'm not even going to debate this.

Don't debate it, because the facts are on my side. http://deloreancarshow.com/jzd/Complete%20Letter.pdf

As for DMCH, I know you found and exposed the whole Sonny V thing, (Am I correct?) so I get that you are likely slanted against the company. That's your prerogative. It probably doesn't matter that James apologized here either.

I have a different experience and opinion based on many transactions and conversations with the people of the company. I have bought from all vendors so my experience is not narrow, but varied. None of the vendors are without flaw.

I don't think that the DeLorean Motor Company name was chosen to create confusion in the community. Under the DMCH era, the community has progressed from buying parts from Consolidated, to a multi location dealership business, and to potentially restarting DeLorean as an OE vehicle manufacturer. If successful, the Alpha 5 will likely go to an exclusive few, but I like the Delorean SUV as a potential future vehicle.

I get that many think they cried wolf too many times with the new car attempts, but success is rarely achieved on the first try. We will see what is revealed this week at Pebble Beach.

Why are you assuming I have a problem with James, or DMCH in general? Quite the opposite. I have known them for 25 years now, shared many meals and drinks with them. Yes, I "exposed" the SonnyV situation but I call out bad behavior when I see it, even for close friends and family. Maybe why I have so few friends! LOL!

Your comments on defending DMCH and their choice or reasons for using the "DeLorean Motor Company" name is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but history and evidence presents many facts that contradict your opinion. Everything that DMCH has done could have been done under a different company name.

What will be revealed at Pebble Beach will be a model, just like every other car company does to generate interest. In light of the Karma lawsuit (that IS the topic at hand!), the likelihood of DMC success is shrinking along with the next generation of awful jokes DMC-12 owners will be assaulted with at car shows.

[DMC-81]

Oh come on! I think they've made some mistakes in the last 25 years and given your username, there's one in particular that we both agree was a shit move. But a blight? Ordering parts from DMC is a straight-up pleasure. The website is easy to use, the parts diagrams are excellent, the products are shipped fast and packaged well.

I agree. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but people who respond negatively (to DMCH or otherwise) while hiding behind an obscure screen name and little other information about themselves detracts from their impact, especially with a low post count. Who are these people and what is their agenda?

I at least respect Marc as he gives his name on his posts.

[81dmc]

I agree. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but people who respond negatively (to DMCH or otherwise) while hiding behind an obscure screen name and little other information about themselves detracts from their impact, especially with a low post count. Who are these people and what is their agenda?

I at least respect Marc as he gives his name on his posts.

There is a very real fear about losing access to parts, some of which are very unique NOS parts only available from DMCH. Now, DMCH as a business has a right to NOT sell to a person or entity, just as DeLorean One once did.

I don’t know about others, but if I were to argue against them, why would I want to put my name and info out there. It’s like asking to be blacklisted. It might sound hypocritical to bite the hand that feeds you, but people have a right to be concerned. If it wasn’t for our cars and continued support, DMCH would have likely collapsed before. The cars would continue, but not easily that’s for certain.


My real take on this “DeLorean Reimagined” stuff.

I’m assuming DMCH is trying this partnered new car thing because just selling NOS and some repro parts to a shrinking group of owners/enthusiasts isn’t exactly a great way to secure the future in business. Add in two good competitors (DPI and DGo), and I can see why this decision could have been made.

However, it ultimately seems like they are going towards a path of inevitable failure. The low volume production idea seemed very promising, but that simply disappeared to be replaced by this “reimagined” idea.

All in all, lawsuits, high pricetag, low interest, and even a fake history don’t look good for the brand and ultimately the investors behind it. Unfortunately, if DMCH fails, the ones who will have a difficult time are us owners. Hopefully, it doesn’t come to that.

Personally, I just wish they would stop the ridiculous C&D stuff. Hurts the community.

[DMC-81]

David, you have zero information on this topic and are are making incorrect statements.



Don't debate it, because the facts are on my side. http://deloreancarshow.com/jzd/Complete%20Letter.pdf




Why are you assuming I have a problem with James, or DMCH in general? Quite the opposite. I have known them for 25 years now, shared many meals and drinks with them. Yes, I "exposed" the SonnyV situation but I call out bad behavior when I see it, even for close friends and family. Maybe why I have so few friends! LOL!

Your comments on defending DMCH and their choice or reasons for using the "DeLorean Motor Company" name is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but history and evidence presents many facts that contradict your opinion. Everything that DMCH has done could have been done under a different company name.

What will be revealed at Pebble Beach will be a model, just like every other car company does to generate interest. In light of the Karma lawsuit (that IS the topic at hand!), the likelihood of DMC success is shrinking along with the next generation of awful jokes DMC-12 owners will be assaulted with at car shows.

Marc, the "facts" you present are a 26 page letter from John DeLorean from 2000 which points the finger at everyone but himself. He even trashes Weitzman, the lawyer who saved his skin. Sadly, I did not read anything that was proof in his favor . Did you even read this letter?

Hilariously, in it he absolutely skewers Mayer Morganroth as a liar and a fraudulent ambulance chaser ( John's words, point 22 and 25 in the letter). This is the same person that "GullwingD" quoted as his evidence against DMCH in the Universal royalty issue in post 13.

If you are close with James or anyone else at DMCH, I would hate to see how you treat your enemies. Lol.

I know what will be revealed at Pebble Beach. I saw renders of it in April and I know when and where it was built.

[gullwingD]

Dana, Morganroth was DeLorean's mortal enemy towards the end of his life. Morganroth was constantly trying to collect money he claimed DeLorean owed him. Of course Morganroth was going to say DMCH was stealing from DeLorean, Morganroth wanted to collect that money he was owed from a contract he wrote! That doesn't negate the truth that in fact, DMCH has "effectively stolen money from the estate." DMCH took money from the DeLorean estate through a bunch of legal screw ups and loop holes. I'm not posting anything that's not true. If I'm giving false information I would welcome any kind of response here from DMCH. Just because what happened may have been legal, does not mean it's morally OK. On top of all this, Sally was a grifter, and none of the DeLorean rights were handed over by anyone who was listed in John DeLorean's will as rightful heirs.

Marc, the "facts" you present are a 26 page letter from John DeLorean from 2000 which points the finger at everyone but himself. He even trashes Weitzman, the lawyer who saved his skin. Sadly, I did not read anything that was proof in his favor . Did you even read this letter?

Hilariously, in it he absolutely skewers Mayer Morganroth as a liar and a fraudulent ambulance chaser ( John's words, point 22 and 25 in the letter). This is the same person that "GullwingD" quoted as his evidence against DMCH in the Universal royalty issue in post 13.

If you are close with James or anyone else at DMCH, I would hate to see how you treat your enemies. Lol.

I know what will be revealed at Pebble Beach. I saw renders of it in April and I know when and where it was built.

[DMC-81]

There is a very real fear about losing access to parts, some of which are very unique NOS parts only available from DMCH. Now, DMCH as a business has a right to NOT sell to a person or entity, just as DeLorean One once did.

I don’t know about others, but if I were to argue against them, why would I want to put my name and info out there. It’s like asking to be blacklisted. It might sound hypocritical to bite the hand that feeds you, but people have a right to be concerned. If it wasn’t for our cars and continued support, DMCH would have likely collapsed before. The cars would continue, but not easily that’s for certain.


My real take on this “DeLorean Reimagined” stuff.

I’m assuming DMCH is trying this partnered new car thing because just selling NOS and some repro parts to a shrinking group of owners/enthusiasts isn’t exactly a great way to secure the future in business. Add in two good competitors (DPI and DGo), and I can see why this decision could have been made.

However, it ultimately seems like they are going towards a path of inevitable failure. The low volume production idea seemed very promising, but that simply disappeared to be replaced by this “reimagined” idea.

All in all, lawsuits, high pricetag, low interest, and even a fake history don’t look good for the brand and ultimately the investors behind it. Unfortunately, if DMCH fails, the ones who will have a difficult time are us owners. Hopefully, it doesn’t come to that.

Personally, I just wish they would stop the ridiculous C&D stuff. Hurts the community.

I have a very good idea of who these unnamed posters are, and why they are not signing their name, but I'll leave it at that. That's their choice.

As a company, I understand that you have to defend your brand, and that means C&D. Every major company does it, no matter what the people in this thread says. The people in the community who are making the most noise about it have a story behind it that they are not telling. My position is: Let's hear the other side of the story and we can make up our own mind, otherwise their posts are the same drivel the people scroll through on social media.

I chatted with Stephen and Joost about behind the scenes details of the new car saga, and the decisions that were made were sensible to me given the circumstances. I hope they succeed. I know that to an owner, it can be a bit tiresome. I'll tell you, I would rather hear from someone excitedly talking about the prospect of a new car, rather than cocaine jokes. One points to a positive future, and the other drags up the past.

Back on the topic of Karma, it remains to be seen what will happen, but I find it interesting that a Chinese-owned company would take issue with IP theft. Wow, that's ironic!