Help with window motor replacement

[rjd2]

Hi folks-replacing the drivers side window mirror. Have the old unit out, and the new unit in hand. I am struggling to seat the window in the guides, particularly the "front" guide(closest to front of car). since it's almost impossible to see that guide, and i assume it can only be done by feel, how should the front attachment of the window mate to the guide? i have the window maybe 1-2" away from the fully closed position, but man this job is tough with the door open and leaning backwards against the car...thanks for any tips on getting the window into the up/closed position.

[glockworks21]

Hi folks-replacing the drivers side window mirror. Have the old unit out, and the new unit in hand. I am struggling to seat the window in the guides, particularly the "front" guide(closest to front of car). since it's almost impossible to see that guide, and i assume it can only be done by feel, how should the front attachment of the window mate to the guide? i have the window maybe 1-2" away from the fully closed position, but man this job is tough with the door open and leaning backwards against the car...thanks for any tips on getting the window into the up/closed position.

sent pm

Dave

[rjd2]

Thanks(don?t see it in my inbox fyi)

[Rich]

i have the window maybe 1-2" away from the fully closed position, but man this job is tough with the door open and leaning backwards against the car...thanks for any tips on getting the window into the up/closed position.

I think you need to start over. If the window is now raised in line with the glass run channel, almost closed but its carrier isn't already in both the front and rear guides, then raising it further won't help. The carrier needs to be on both guides before the glass can go up.

If you haven't already removed the black painted crossmember take it off the door now. That will help you get the glass out. It also needs to be out in order to more easily install the drop glass+carrier.

More on this in the next post, along with a hack to save your back on this job.

[Rich]

Before sharing hints about getting the drop glass back into your door here's a hack that will make this job, or any job inside the door, easier. Most in-door jobs can't be done easily with the door fully open or closed.

Use as a thin rope or strap with an S-hook tied to one end to hold the door a bit more than halfway closed so you can work on it while sitting on the seat with your legs over the door sill. That puts the mechanisms and the door apertures a bit further outboard and at eye level with you seated, looking at it with both hands free.

The hook engages the edge of convenient opening near the rear of the door (with its panels off). Loop the other end of of the rope/strap under the rear door jamb striker pin on the body and tie it off. Adjust its length til you like the door height for your job.

[Rich]

I tried but failed to find a how-to for this. The Workshop Manual Sec. P:02 doesn't help much.

Prep:
Remove the drop glass+carrier if it's in the door already. Remove the black painted crossmember from the sill below the fixed glass if it's not already out. Use the window switch to locate the window regulator lift bracket at the halfway-up position. During the entire process take care not to scratch the glass on the regulator bracket or the drop glass divider.

Look carefully at the front and rear nylon window sliders on the carrier so you can see how they mate to the two guide rails in the door. The metal guide have L-shaped profiles that the sliders move along. Don't try to pry those nylon sliders onto the guide rails from the side. They mount only from the top end, sliding forward and down onto the guides.

Process:
Work from inside the car. Start by inserting the glass+carrier into the door, working from the inside with the top of the glass inboard and partially overlapping the fixed glass. In other words, start with the drop glass inboard of the fixed glass and above its closed position. Lean the glass inward at the top with the carrier horizontal as you drop it into the door. Looks weird but that's how its done. The guides flex enough for this to work. The missing crossmember helps you see the guides and gives the drop glass room to wobble in and out, forward and back, while you're aiming the carrier.

Get the forward nylon slider onto the front guide first, then drop the glass a bit further working the rear slider onto its guide.

Do NOT loosen any of the window guide mounting bolts thinking it will make this job easier.

When you think the glass carrier is engaged on both sliders lower the glass further. Keeping the carrier horizontal you should be able to manually lift and lower the glass smoothly. If not remove it and repeat. The window motor/regulator won't be able to deal with a badly-guided or jammed window.

With the drop glass moving smoothly by hand lower the glass until the carrier is even with the lift bracket on the window regulator that you prepped in the half-up position. Attach the bracket to the carrier and tighten the two nuts. Before testing the system be sure the door crossmember you removed is screwed back in place since it helps keep the glass from flopping inward as it rises.

[rjd2]

thanks for the help folks! well, I attacked this in the morning before there were all of these helpful comments. i was able to get the front drop window nylon guide into the carrier using a mirror. i wrestled gently with the new motor, trying my best to not put a dent in the door skin, and pulled that off.

My current state is here: motor in, window in the front guide(not sure on back guide?), nuts and bolts beyond finger tight but not final torqued for testing, electrical is connected and working. this may be asking a ton, but how do I tell if the rear nylon guide for the window is in the carrier/channel properly? I don't recall seeing a rear guide.... thanks for the help!

[Rich]

.....nuts and bolts beyond finger tight but not final torqued for testing, electrical is connected and working. this may be asking a ton, but how do I tell if the rear nylon guide for the window is in the carrier/channel properly? I don't recall seeing a rear guide.... thanks for the help!

Great you've made some progress. It's a good question you ask. You do need to see or feel your rear slider/guide/track are properly connected to each other inside the door. The rear slider on the glass carrier is obvious since you had it out.

How to tell whether the rear carrier slider is really on the rear track/rail?

Four ways- skip to #4 in case you can manage to position the glass where you can see the rear slider. The first three ways are to test engagement without looking.

1. After the crossmember is back on on but before you attach the carrier to the regulator bracket (in the half-up position) you manually lift or lower the window up and down by gripping the top of the glass checking to see that it runs smoothly. Don't suddenly let go unless you know there's nothing in the way like the regulator bracket that might scratch it.
2. In same condition at test 1, hold the front of the glass/carrier in place, then separately try lifting only the rear of the glass straight up and pushing it straight down (not sliding it diagonally). If the rear of the carrier can't move very much either straight up or straight down then the rear slider is probably on the guide (unless it's sort of hanging onto one side of the guide).
3. With the glass near the top of its travel try to push the top of the drop glass outward or inward. It shouldn't wiggle very much. The two rails prevent this if the carrier sliders are both engaged. This assured the drop glass won't miss the channel when it closes.
4. Again, with the drop glass detached from the regulator manually raise or lower the glass/carrier it til you can see the carrier/slider engagement on the rail. From memory that's probably easiest to see with the window fully down. Or you may need to do it by feeling for it. When testing be careful the regulator bracket/bolts don't touch the glass or just lower the regulator bracket all the way down first.

If you think you've got them both engaged then the final test is the one you'll do with the crossmember still in place and the carrier tightly nutted to the reg bracket. Run it up and down with the switch. It should operate smoothly with the carrier+glass staying level the whole way, then snug itself into the upper channel felt when it closes. Try testing it in very short spurts in both directions. If it jams up or tilts stop immediately and rescue/loosen the carrier.

Diagrams:
This is the LH drop glass carrier - you can see the nylon sliders, one forward, one rear.
Here is where the F and R drop glass guides sit in the door: in this case it's the LH door as viewed from outside the car. With the drop glass+carrier off to one side. I won't guarantee the glass is in the correct location in the diagram - it looks like it's inboard of the guides but it should be outboard, I believe.

[David T]

When working inside the doors another helpful tip is to get some duct tape and put it over the edges of the S/S so you don't get red liquid all over the place! You won't even feel the cuts before you see the blood! That "hack" with the rope and S hook is very useful, it allows you to sit comfortably on the sill while you work on the door. While you are in there make sure there is nothing rattling around inside and the drain holes are not plugged up. On one Delorean I worked on the door was half full of water. The owner complained the lights leaked and the door seemed very heavy.

[rjd2]

WHEW!!! Ok, got it. Thanks to all for the advice!!! Going to detail my technique here for future documentation. I was able to get the window seated without removing the carriers(my rear nylon guide was NOT in place).

step 1: either tape inner door edges, or wear gloves. Venom makes a double sided nitrile 9mil glove that I used. I came out with no cuts, and was able to apply a good amount of force in there. one or the other is a must. those SS cuts go deep and fast.

step 2: unseat the motor, so it sits loosely in the door. you'll need the space to work.

step 3: seat the rear nylon guide first, as it has TWO lips that ride on the carrier, and the front has ONE. I did this by removing the lights, and using those recesses to see my work. by hand, i got the rear guide CLOSE to the carrier, but not on. I then used a piece of pvc running thru the light hole, pushing upwards on the rear nylon guide. at the same time, I grabbed the metal carrier at the top of the door, and rotated it in a circle. this part gets done entirely by feel, but eventually, the guide pops onto the end of the carrier. obviously this all happens with the window unseated from the motor fastener, and all the way down past the end of the carriers.

step 4: once the rear is seated, run it up 1/2"-1" so it doesnt come back off. i did this next step outside of the door, facing the car, with my left hand inside the recess that the motor lives in. if you put your left hand on the nylon guide, and gently start moving the window upwards with your right hand, you'll eventually feel the edge of the front carrier. at this point the rear nylon guide is probably 1 1/2-2" up the carrier, as the front guide ONLY has a lip at the bottom of it. i was able to essentially pop the guide onto the edge of the carrier; i think i may have "missed" it once or twice before it caught. once both guides are on, its pretty straight forward-run the window up til the motor fastener can fit over the 2 bolts on the window, tighten everything down, and off you go.

this whole technique requires A) a small angled mirror, and B) a small light that can fit inside or on the door. all in all, probably took me an hour to get the window off the guide, and back on to both properly. window now works great!