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Thread: NEW Integrated pump sender combo!

  1. #171
    Senior Member DMC-81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitsyncmaster View Post
    Remember with the DMCH pump your getting the pump, check valve, fuel gauge ECU, fuel sender cap and plug and play wiring. So it's not just $430 for a $50 pump.
    Exactly, and by supporting a vendor, you are helping to ensure ongoing product innovations (like the subject fuel module) and reproductions for a 38 year old orphan car.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malevy View Post
    It is possible a better quality pump (and/or screen) will not be as fragile. Quite possible the failures I have seen are due to debris too, but "seat of the pants" non-scientific observation leads me to believe that other pumps may be more reliable (even if that means less prone to damage from debris). I have installed lots of fuel pumps in DeLoreans, and Non-DeLoreans..

    Ignoring the check valve issues (resolved by adding an external one), I have seen 2 pumps that have failed where they still pump but the pressure is too low for the fuel system to operate properly. Even out of the box, they seem to produce less pressure than a well worn OEM Bosch pump.
    I think if you are seeing failures that you suspect are due to debris, you should perhaps look at their installation procedures. Installing any pump regardless of price point in a clean environment is important. Because the fuel returns to the tank, it is of course important to surgically clean the tank, but remember that dirty components downstream that can return contaminated fuel to your clean tank.

    Failures right out of the box are not that rare in today's mass production world. That said, I have had great service after the sale from DMC when I have had any problems with a product ( the same can be said for several other vendors too ).

    I am completing 7 years in-service with my DMCH all in one fuel module without a hitch. To me, that's reliable. But, I also went through the entire fuel system during my restoration as well.

    Cheers,
    Dana

    1981 DeLorean DMC-12 (5 Speed, Gas Flap, Black Interior, Windshield Antenna, Dark Gray)
    Restored as "mostly correct, but with flaws corrected". Pictures and comments of my restoration are in the albums section on my profile.
    2006 Dodge Magnum R/T (D/D)
    2010 Camaro SS (Transformers Edition)

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC-81 View Post
    Exactly, and by supporting a vendor, you are helping to ensure ongoing product innovations (like the subject fuel module) and reproductions for a 38 year old orphan car.
    So, having 25+ years of ownership under my belt and having worked on a few dozen DeLoreans, I can confirm that it is important to "support our vendors". But, don't do it blindly. When they can do better, it is up to us to demand better. This is why I try to support ALL DeLorean vendors, competition keeps them striving to be better.

    Would you like the list of things I have lived through with DMCH, and still continue to support them??

    I am confident they could still have made a nice profit on these pumps if they ordered them with better specifications. Lots of GM pumps run at 100+ PSI. There are better choices to more closely match what the DMC fuel system needs. Hopefully this discussion will encourage an improved model for the future. I'd love to continue recommending the DMCH pump to people, but as it stands now- I can't.
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  3. #173
    Senior Member DMC-81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malevy View Post
    So, having 25+ years of ownership under my belt and having worked on a few dozen DeLoreans, I can confirm that it is important to "support our vendors". But, don't do it blindly. When they can do better, it is up to us to demand better. This is why I try to support ALL DeLorean vendors, competition keeps them striving to be better.

    Would you like the list of things I have lived through with DMCH, and still continue to support them??

    I am confident they could still have made a nice profit on these pumps if they ordered them with better specifications. Lots of GM pumps run at 100+ PSI. There are better choices to more closely match what the DMC fuel system needs. Hopefully this discussion will encourage an improved model for the future. I'd love to continue recommending the DMCH pump to people, but as it stands now- I can't.
    Marc, Congrats on many years of ownership and supporting other vendors. I do the same. I was not calling into question your experience. My point with the fuel module is checking to see whether any failure is caused by our car's common issue of contamination, or by inferior quality parts/components. Yes, competition is a good thing, and hopefully your seat of the pants hunch / research delivers a better mousetrap. By James' post above, it seems that they are already investigating any failures to help their supplier continuously improve the product.

    What hasn't worked for me is buying inexpensive parts and expecting quality and durability.
    Dana

    1981 DeLorean DMC-12 (5 Speed, Gas Flap, Black Interior, Windshield Antenna, Dark Gray)
    Restored as "mostly correct, but with flaws corrected". Pictures and comments of my restoration are in the albums section on my profile.
    2006 Dodge Magnum R/T (D/D)
    2010 Camaro SS (Transformers Edition)

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC-81 View Post
    What hasn't worked for me is buying inexpensive parts and expecting quality and durability.
    The $30 part is exactly the same part DMCH sells for $90. Paying more for the same thing does not make it better.

    My premise here is that a $400+ fuel pump assembly should be higher quality.
    __________________________________________________ ____________________
    Got any new Purflux oil filters? I may want to buy them.

  5. #175
    Senior Member DMC-81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malevy View Post
    The $30 part is exactly the same part DMCH sells for $90. Paying more for the same thing does not make it better.

    My premise here is that a $400+ fuel pump assembly should be higher quality.
    Fair enough. I donít like paying any more than I have to, but I donít expect a relatively small business to compete with prices from my favorite e-tailer, nor any of the local brick and mortar stores I frequent. Hey, if you find a cheaper price for replacement parts, then great.

    As for the price of the $400 fuel pump, I know that sounds excessive, but as you can imagine, these other costs must be included in the price to recoup expenses of developing a new product (over and above the per unit part cost of the whole module):
    - the total Research and Development costs
    - costs of commissioning proprietary parts
    - Returns
    - Warranty costs
    - Part Waste
    - General Administration (overhead)
    - Etc.
    All divided by a limited volume.

    I applaud anyone who develops a new or reproduction part for our cars.

    Maybe itís just me, but I donít find a problem with the quality of my pump.
    Dana

    1981 DeLorean DMC-12 (5 Speed, Gas Flap, Black Interior, Windshield Antenna, Dark Gray)
    Restored as "mostly correct, but with flaws corrected". Pictures and comments of my restoration are in the albums section on my profile.
    2006 Dodge Magnum R/T (D/D)
    2010 Camaro SS (Transformers Edition)

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC-81 View Post

    As for the price of the $400 fuel pump, I know that sounds excessive, but as you can imagine, these other costs must be included in the price to recoup expenses of developing a new product (over and above the per unit part cost of the whole module)
    I am aware of how it all works.. Not sure why you feel the need to defend DMCH against one person's opinion (mine), but so be it..

    Just like other less than flattering opinions I have had over the years about DMCH products and business practices, I will continue to direct people to them (and their franchises) for parts I feel they are the best option for. Until recently, the fuel pump was one of those parts. Clearly, not any more.
    __________________________________________________ ____________________
    Got any new Purflux oil filters? I may want to buy them.

  7. #177
    Senior Member Josh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC-81 View Post
    Fair enough. I don’t like paying any more than I have to, but I don’t expect a relatively small business to compete with prices from my favorite e-tailer, nor any of the local brick and mortar stores I frequent. Hey, if you find a cheaper price for replacement parts, then great.

    As for the price of the $400 fuel pump, I know that sounds excessive, but as you can imagine, these other costs must be included in the price to recoup expenses of developing a new product (over and above the per unit part cost of the whole module):
    - the total Research and Development costs
    - costs of commissioning proprietary parts
    - Returns
    - Warranty costs
    - Part Waste
    - General Administration (overhead)
    - Etc.
    All divided by a limited volume.

    I applaud anyone who develops a new or reproduction part for our cars.

    Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t find a problem with the quality of my pump.
    I would take warranty out of that list.
    I had a pump prematurely die (and i am not the only one) and the best DMCH could do is try and sell me more parts.

    It was cheaper to go to the local parts store and replace it with a 2000 Tahoe pump.

    Not to mention the whole check valve situation. The fuel pump should have an internal check valve, having to install an external one is a sign of a cheap product.

  8. #178
    Senior Member DMC-81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    I would take warranty out of that list.
    I had a pump prematurely die (and i am not the only one) and the best DMCH could do is try and sell me more parts.

    It was cheaper to go to the local parts store and replace it with a 2000 Tahoe pump.

    Not to mention the whole check valve situation. The fuel pump should have an internal check valve, having to install an external one is a sign of a cheap product.
    Hi Josh,

    Hmm, I think it depends on the situation, and the circumstances. From posts 151 and 152 in this same thread it seems you exceeded the 6? month warranty by 6 times, (i.e. 3 years), and used it in an application that it was not designed for (V8 versus V6). What would you think any other car warranty company would say? In my experience they would say no, and offer to sell you a new unit for $400, maybe at a discount if you were really nice and/or a high volume customer.

    But, in post 158, James offered to send you the necessary repair parts for $80 (20% of the cost of a whole new unit) which you stated that you were satisfied with in post 164.

    On the check valve, based on my reading, I think after a few were sold and used, it was discovered that the internal check valve was not strong enough over time to counteract the pressure of the fuel accumulator in our cars, so the external one was added. That's just my layman's guess. DMC was up front in post 17 that it was a special purpose modified GM design). As a general rule, new car part designs are updated over time and with experience. Nothing new here.

    All along this thread, DMC has been listening and offering what I think is a reasonable solution. How many car part vendors are so directly connected to their customers?

    I think we need to cut them some slack.


    Quote Originally Posted by Malevy View Post
    I am aware of how it all works.. Not sure why you feel the need to defend DMCH against one person's opinion (mine), but so be it..
    Marc, 2 reasons.

    1. One of the reasons I bought this car is because of the excellent parts availability, both NOS and improved. It benefits all of us to have DMC and other vendors actively engaged in producing parts for our cars.

    2. In my experience, all of the people at DMC are connected to us, their customers, and try to do the right thing.

    I worry that sometimes it's hard to continue on those 2 paths when you see unfair/unbalanced reviews.

    So, when I see what is possibly an unfair assessment based on my experience with the part and company, I add my experience (if I have one), to hopefully give the reader a balanced perspective as they make their assessment. I know that I did a LOT of reading when I was a new owner, and fair product reviews were very important to me in my attempt to decide among part /vendor options.

    I buy from other vendors and I provide positive reviews whenever possible for them as well. Chief among them are Rob Grady of PJ Grady, and Arran of DeLoreanGo. When I get great customer service from any company, I tend to become an advocate. That's all.
    Dana

    1981 DeLorean DMC-12 (5 Speed, Gas Flap, Black Interior, Windshield Antenna, Dark Gray)
    Restored as "mostly correct, but with flaws corrected". Pictures and comments of my restoration are in the albums section on my profile.
    2006 Dodge Magnum R/T (D/D)
    2010 Camaro SS (Transformers Edition)

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