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Thread: Delorean in Kansas City with 351 and Pantera trans.

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    There is a gentleman on here with a gen 1 sbc in his car, engine would be similar weight. Maybe he can comment on how it drives.

    However there is a reason why I would never consider putting in an iron block LS, only aluminum. As far as the aluminum block LS goes, the car drives fine, the car is still more of a handful due to the power not the weight! I think an aluminum block LS is about 450lbs.

    This is a very cool swap though. The first V8 delorean!
    Not the first. There is one with a Lotus V-8 in it. It was an easy fit because the Lotus uses the same transaxle. Not only is it a V-8 it has twin turbos!
    David Teitelbaum

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by David T View Post
    Not the first. There is one with a Lotus V-8 in it. It was an easy fit because the Lotus uses the same transaxle. Not only is it a V-8 it has twin turbos!
    Easy fit? WTF are you talking about? Robert had to extensively modify the frame to fit the engine!
    -Mike
    1981 DeLorean, Carb LS4 swap completed
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by opethmike View Post
    Easy fit? WTF are you talking about? Robert had to extensively modify the frame to fit the engine!
    Easy is a comparative term. It was easy in the sense that he didn't have to deal with adapting to a transmission. I am sure he also had to extensively rewire the car too. The Lotus V8 has a full engine management system. My main point was that others have put a V8 into a Delorean. Under no circumstances is it an easy task. And when you are all done it is too much HP and too much weight for the design.
    David Teitelbaum

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by David T View Post
    Easy is a comparative term. It was easy in the sense that he didn't have to deal with adapting to a transmission. I am sure he also had to extensively rewire the car too. The Lotus V8 has a full engine management system. My main point was that others have put a V8 into a Delorean. Under no circumstances is it an easy task. And when you are all done it is too much HP and too much weight for the design.
    As usual, instead of admitting that you're wrong about something you change your narrative. Typical Dave "Guru" T. Have you ever even actually driven a V8 DeLorean? Because it seems pretty clear that you haven't.
    -Mike
    1981 DeLorean, Carb LS4 swap completed
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  5. #45
    Senior Member DMCVegas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opethmike View Post
    Easy fit? WTF are you talking about? Robert had to extensively modify the frame to fit the engine!
    That's correct. Robert had to weld in extensions to reach out and hold the motor mounts, as well as he chopped the K-member below to accommodate the oil pan.



    That also doesn't account for the cutting & welding of the bellhousing to accommodate the reversed ring gear, nor his charge cooler system he had to graft in.

    LSx engines by contrast need only a chopped section of the oil pan, and custom motor mounts which bolt into the stock location. A Ford Coyote should be even easier to install with a choice of front or rear sumps. Plus it's about 2.5" shorter for an easier installation.

    Writing these new engines up is also pretty simple too. You just get a control pack from the factory that plugs directly into the engine via the wiring harness that plugs into it. Drop in your appropriate fuel pump, connect up the 12V feeds, and your engine is up and running. The thing is already tuned from the factory and ready to go. The most custom stuff I've seen so far has been adapting the "drive by wire" system to a more remote location, which would require the removal of the accelerator pedal for the electronic one. And most likely a retrofit of clutch hydraulics as well. Almost every American engine now has a factory engine management kit available for it, and they offer OBD-II availability right out of the box. Here's a sample: https://performanceparts.ford.com/do...6017-A504V.pdf

    True, larger brakes are required. But there are 4-piston caliper retrofit kits available for the DeLorean with larger pads as well as the upgraded lower control arms. And who knows what we'll see in the future from the community.
    Robert

    Wake me when hockey season returns...

  6. #46
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    Bigger brakes is just a small part of what is required. With a rear engine the car has a large polar moment so you must design the car for that instability. One of the reasons for the different size tires front to rear. Making it larger only magnifies the problems. The spring rates must be changed, a sway bar installed in the rear, some method of proportioning the brakes, and on and on. The cooling system may not be adequate too. An engine swap in the Delorean can be an immense job if it is to be done right. When Lotus designed the car they designed it to be "just enough". Changing one thing will cause a cascade of other necessary changes because the design was optimized in all respects for what it is with little to no room for change. Nothing was "over-engineered" as is so often done on American cars. A perfect example is the electrical system. it is barely adequate for the STOCK Delorean! One engine swap that I was impressed with is Mark Levy's car. Not only does it look well done it also WORKS well. Not overambitious but definitely an improvement. Not something I recommend others do either. BTW you are correct, I have never driven a Delorean V8. The closest I have come to that is a Lotus V8.
    David Teitelbaum

  7. #47
    Senior Member DMCVegas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David T View Post
    One engine swap that I was impressed with is Mark Levy's car. Not only does it look well done it also WORKS well. Not overambitious but definitely an improvement. Not something I recommend others do either.
    Interesting. What were the aspects that worked well, and what others did you feel it could have improved upon to adequately match the performance of the engine?
    Robert

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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by David T View Post
    Not the first. There is one with a Lotus V-8 in it. It was an easy fit because the Lotus uses the same transaxle. Not only is it a V-8 it has twin turbos!
    I thought that Lotus first developed the V8 for 1996 Esprits. If this 351 Cleveland DeLorean was built in late 1984/early 1985, then it would beat the Lotus swapped one by more than a decade, no?

    I'm curious..if this wasn't the first V8 swapped DeLorean, then was there an earlier swap documented?
    Dana

    1981 DeLorean DMC-12 (5 Speed, Gas Flap, Black Interior, Windshield Antenna, Dark Gray)
    Restored as "mostly correct, but with flaws corrected". Pictures and comments of my restoration are in the albums section on my profile.
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  9. #49
    Former Owner delo2.8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMCVegas View Post
    Right. But that would really only apply in this case because the car already has the ZF Gearbox from the Pantera. If you're dealing with the UN-Series transaxles like we have, the GT40 kit car community already has bellhousings for Ford Windsor, Ford Modular, and SBCs.
    Yeah, I was just thinking that if the owner of this car ever decided to let the car go for a reasonable price that it wouldn't be too hard to get something lighter in the back. I'm sure the car would need a complete cooling and fuel system overhaul after sitting for all these years too. Would be a good project for someone with the time, and who is interested in Deloreans/Ford motors.
    Del Silveira
    Lived the dream, sold the dream, and now I dream again.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Josh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMCVegas View Post
    That's correct. Robert had to weld in extensions to reach out and hold the motor mounts, as well as he chopped the K-member below to accommodate the oil pan.



    That also doesn't account for the cutting & welding of the bellhousing to accommodate the reversed ring gear, nor his charge cooler system he had to graft in.

    LSx engines by contrast need only a chopped section of the oil pan, and custom motor mounts which bolt into the stock location. A Ford Coyote should be even easier to install with a choice of front or rear sumps. Plus it's about 2.5" shorter for an easier installation.

    Writing these new engines up is also pretty simple too. You just get a control pack from the factory that plugs directly into the engine via the wiring harness that plugs into it. Drop in your appropriate fuel pump, connect up the 12V feeds, and your engine is up and running. The thing is already tuned from the factory and ready to go. The most custom stuff I've seen so far has been adapting the "drive by wire" system to a more remote location, which would require the removal of the accelerator pedal for the electronic one. And most likely a retrofit of clutch hydraulics as well. Almost every American engine now has a factory engine management kit available for it, and they offer OBD-II availability right out of the box. Here's a sample: https://performanceparts.ford.com/do...6017-A504V.pdf

    True, larger brakes are required. But there are 4-piston caliper retrofit kits available for the DeLorean with larger pads as well as the upgraded lower control arms. And who knows what we'll see in the future from the community.
    My brain started hurting at your over-simplification of engine swaps.
    You make it sound like you have done dozens.

    Lets get some things sorted:
    -A delorean does not have a k-member
    -the installation of an LS engine does not require any cutting of the delorean frame, or the ls oil pan.
    -Go ahead and try and cram a Ford mod v8 in a delorean engine bay. You will find in about 10 minutes it is way too wide. This is one reason why LS swaps are popular.
    -You can certainly buy a standalone harness for SOME engines at a great expense, and tuning the ECU is a separate affair in these small scale applications. Integrating most engines require a detailed undertanding of the vehicles electrical system and how the ECU intertwines through the CANBUS to other computers in the car. You cant just do a segment swap as easy as you make it sound.
    -Properly functioning brakes taming 300+hp can be adequate with the right driver. The calipers on the car aren't as bad as they as perceived, they are just clamping non-vented discs with regular old pads. Add in more crappiness if the brake system is 35 years old.
    Last edited by Josh; 10-24-2016 at 08:23 PM.

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