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Thread: Engine Dies When Placed In Gear***Split from Spittybug...EFI***

  1. #11
    "Former Delorean owning Guru" Spittybug's Avatar
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    Shannon's going to try and bring his car around next week and we'll get this all looked at. It certainly appears that adding the fluid has eliminated his stall problem, I think he just wants to understand why.
    We need to adjust his idle air controller and fine tune his fueling table, but he's close.
    Owen
    I.Brew.Beer.

  2. #12
    DMC Midwest - 815.459.6439 DMCMW Dave's Avatar
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    The vacuum line to the transmission is going into the vacuum shift modulator. This is a dead-end connection,i.e. it is simply pulling on a diaphragm which in turn varies the pressure valve in the transmission. There is no vacuum loss there unless the hose or modulator has been compromised, i.e. leaking, and in that case it would be a constant vacuuum leak and unaffected by gear lever position.

    I agree with Ron - something in MS is not reacting fast enough to the sudden change in load when going in to gear and loading the torque converter (therefore the engine) compared to being in neutral. In the normal DMC controls, this is seen as an RPM drop that is compensated by the idle speed motor.
    Dave S
    DMC Midwest - retired but helping
    Greenville SC

  3. #13
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    Adding the transmission fluid eliminated the problem with the stalling. No adjustment to MS did it. Somehow, the lower AT fluid level caused a greater strain on the engine that adding AT fluid solved. I don't know why. Googling the issue on the internet turned up people who had a similar experience.

    Ron, are you running MS on a stock Delorean engine? If so I would like to see your tune.

  4. #14
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazabby View Post
    Adding the transmission fluid eliminated the problem with the stalling. No adjustment to MS did it. Somehow, the lower AT fluid level caused a greater strain on the engine that adding AT fluid solved. I don't know why. Googling the issue on the internet turned up people who had a similar experience.

    Ron, are you running MS on a stock Delorean engine? If so I would like to see your tune.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I can't offer any help with the MS, but I bet Spitty will have an idea or two....
    1669 has K-Jet on a modified engine.

    I play with stock EFI systems and some racing stuff I'm sure is a lot like your MS but I don't know the user interface.

    ==========

    I'm sorry I thought you still had problems with it dieing (ie returned)...



    I too am interested in getting to "the nitty gritty of the RPM and load".
    Particularly, what could possibly cause a D trans to load the engine enough that the idle speed control could not handle it?
    Last edited by Ron; 07-07-2012 at 11:33 PM.

  5. #15
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    What I found out via research on the internet (everything is true on the Internet right?) is that low AT fluid causes problems with the torque converter. People such as myself would have problems at stop lights and when moving the transmission in gear. Everything worked better when warmed up, presumably because the fluid expands. Here are a few links on the subject:
    http://jeepgarage.org/archive/index.php/t-1244.html
    http://www.justanswer.com/dodge/2r86...-ready-go.html
    tombirch.com/1/ppt/atstall.ppt - this one is a pdf
    http://x.nissanhelp.com/forums/maxim...ma-stalls.html

  6. #16
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazabby View Post
    What I found out via research on the internet (everything is true on the Internet right?) is that low AT fluid causes problems with the torque converter. People such as myself would have problems at stop lights and when moving the transmission in gear. Everything worked better when warmed up, presumably because the fluid expands. Here are a few links on the subject:
    Playing devil's advocate:

    http://jeepgarage.org/archive/index.php/t-1244.html
    This guy reported "...after a cold start my jeep will hesitate...no matter how much I hit the gas it just kinda went slow...no throttle response...BTW it still has a funky low idle and occasionally stalls out still."

    He had several problems but only the first was resolved after being pointed to a factory TSB at http://www.wkjeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk_2101505.pdf, which strictly deals with "Trans - Delayed Engagement Due To Cooler Return Filter Replacement". That is the problem they resolved.

    I did find it "interesting" that one other guy in the thread did report having "the same problem" (didn't say which), but couldn't afford a half quart of fluid because he couldn't even get a job at McDonald's. LOL

    ========

    http://tombirch.com/1/ppt/atstall.ppt

    The only thing I see related there is:
    "Torque converter stall should not be confused with a transmission stall test."
    ...
    "TC Stall can be caused by low fluid level, faulty torque converter controls or internal seals."

    "Can be caused by" don't help us w/o knowing the type of vehicle or any explanation whatsoever???

    "Faulty torque converter controls" addresses lock up type converters being told to lock at the wrong time by a bad TCC solenoid, ECU, etc. (You don't have a lock up type converter.)

    "Internal seals" would not be resolved by adding fluid.

    ========

    http://x.nissanhelp.com/forums/maxim...ma-stalls.html
    One person here did reply with a list of stalling causes. One of which was low fluid, but it appears that he was just trying to be complete or he missed the OP saying, "I have been in the car when it has done it at highway speeds."
    His torque converter should lock up at highway speeds! ...So, not his problem.

    Anyway, this guys problem was never reported as resolved and totally different than your's anyway....

    ========

    http://www.justanswer.com/dodge/2r86...-ready-go.html
    This is the one mentioned before and I find it the most interesting...and most convincing. But continuing to play devil's advocate-

    Here we have a guy who did the regular maintenance, cleaned a few things and then started throwing parts at it! I counted 15, one of which was the PCM, which he says resolved the stall problem for a week (not a fluid problem). Then he says he serviced the transmission (total fluid and filter change) but later says it only needed topping off!?! After (kinda) blowing off the expert (...a team eventually) he says, "I went to my support equipment division..." where they told him about "hydra drive with TC, some of which have efficiency clutches just like a lock-up converter" (which you don't have ;-) and that they drained over 2 quarts out and drove it to prove it. That by itself sounds very convincing for that type of transmission (electronic) and converter (lockup). Besides not seeing a mechanic telling him to drive with it over 2 quarts low, ever, I have to ask myself why would a guy pay for and install all of those parts, strike out every time, then go to a "pay for information" site, instead of going to HIS "support equipment division" in the first place?
    Maybe he ran broke after wasting all of his money on parts and didn't want to accept the answer and have to pay, but wanted to be able to come back for other problems. LOL
    Seriously, that may well have been be his problem, but we should be careful about giving too much credit here since he has a totally different setup.

    ========

    We need info for OUR type of drivetrain...at least one that doesn't have, electronically controlled lock up converters and a kitchen sink ;-)
    There is a large torque converter rebuild shop near hear (thats all they do) where I get my TCs. I'll reach out to the owner tomorrow and see what light he can shed on it all...

    EDIT: How low was yours total. And how much after it quit stalling to top it off?
    Last edited by Ron; 07-08-2012 at 04:55 PM.

  7. #17
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    I put in 1/2 quart and it has run fine since.

  8. #18
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    McDonalds?

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