My Front Suspension is Badly bent, What do you think?

[Bill Robertson's Sock Puppet #1]

If you go the lower wishbone route (versus triangulation), there are a couple of things you can do to accommodate the swaybar's range of motion in lieu of shoving the lower control arms back & forth:

1) Use rubber bushings rather than polyurethane (more squish)
2) Turn the crumple extension bushings around backwards (hinge towards the front) so the swaybar presses into an empty space

And of course the very shape of the swaybar (45 degree angles) provides a surprising amount of flex in the swaybar itself -- one of the reasons it is so unsuitable as backwards thrust arms. If you stand a swaybar on end and pull on it, you can deflect the poor thing a couple of inches using nothing more than skinny white man muscle power.

Lower wishbones alleviate the swaybar of any alignment function, returning it to a traditional body roll function.

[vwdmc16]

Compensating for a bent or incorrectly repaired frame by making adjustable parts is not a good way to "fix" things. .... As for the rear toe you are not supposed to use too many shims. If you can't get it right (with I think 5 max) something is very wrong.
David Teitelbaum

My frame is not failing structurally. I knew the frame would be a big issue before I purchased the car, It will be replaced eventually. The fact that the DMc suspension is not adjustable it simply unacceptable to me. Things wear, bent, and move around after 31 years. Even replacing everything to NOS will still not give me the proper alignment with the ride height that I am running and will continue to run, I will not allow my car to ride high like a 4x4. Suspension modification and improvement is in order.


As for the toe, I have 3 standard shims on both sides, removing one for a thinner shim on each side should take care of that.

[David T]

There is a reason why the factory did not make the suspension "adjustable". If it is not within the published specs something is wrong. That being said, you CAN adjust things, just not with a wrench. If you lower the car there are parts you can add that will make it "adjustable". If you know the frame is not good then that is where you begin. If the car is pulling or "leading" to one side, that is a BIG red flag. It could be the alignment or it could just be a stuck piston in a caliper. It needs to be fixed to make the car safe to drive.
David Teitelbaum

[Bill Robertson's Sock Puppet #1]

There is a reason why the factory did not make the suspension "adjustable".

The suspension is not adjustable because Lotus/DMC were cheap. Even the lowly Chevette had adjustable caster and camber.

Mike Loasby is on record as being quite concerned about the production suspension (he was a late arrival to the project). Loasby also was experimenting with suspension improvements even as cars were rolling off the assembly line.

No serious argument can be made that DeLoreans are not rife candidates for suspension improvement.

[jerzybondov]

Ed Uding's LCA brackets basically render the whole swaybar as backwards thrust arms problem moot. They are the closest thing to plug and play lower wishbones currently available.

Note that there appears to be a weakness mounting Ed's bushings in direct contact with the shock tower: they have a tendency to work themselves out of the brackets as they rotate up & down -- a problem easily remedied by mounting the bushings against *HARDENDED* backing washers (which in turn rotate against the protruding pivot bolt tubes, not against the shock towers themselves). Mounting the bushings against backing washers also eliminates annoying polyurethane squeak. You will need longer pivot bolts than supplied with the kit.

Interesting to see I'm not the only one with this problem. Attached pics show it on my car.

There is already a washer on the inboard side of the bush, the issue is that it's the same size as the bush. Surely if the hardened washer is the same thickness but simply a larger diameter then there's no need for longer pivot bolts?

[Bill Robertson's Sock Puppet #1]

Looks like you put a thin stainless washer on one side only. I've seen that before (Tyler Butler's car) -- it doesn't work. The other side still drags on the shock tower. Plus the thin washer bends back on itself. You need 1/8" thick washers on both sides.

Proper backing washers will position the Uding brackets about 1/4" further from the shock towers on each side. You'll need even longer bolts if you overlay the provided inset washers with washers that cover the entire bushing face. Another inch is more than adequate):



I've helped two other owners make this upgrade with their lower control arms still in place (there's no need to remove the LCA's to add the washers).

My own brackets have always had proper backing washers on both sides: nearly 18 months and nearly 10,000 miles with not a single millimeter of bushing movement.

Definitely a design flaw in what is otherwise an excellent and beneficial product. Hopefully Dave Swingle will see your pics too. I've sent him pics of the other owner's bushings walked out. Dave is providing the pivot bolts now (and Grade 8 rather than stainless inset washers). It would be a simple change for him to provide longer pivot bolts and hardened backing washers.

[David T]

On modern cars it is very common now to spot-weld all of the stuff together. To adjust you have to drill out the spot welds, (or rivets) move the parts into position and then stick bolts and nuts in to hold things in place. There is no good reason you should have to adjust castor or camber unless you drastically change the ride height or bend something (like the frame). Yes, they probably did it to save money but you can make that argument on just about any part of the car, it was all a compromise to be able to build the car for a particular price.
David Teitelbaum

[Bill Robertson's Sock Puppet #1]

DeLoreans are not modern cars.

Nearly every other vehicle of their 30+ year old vintage had fully adjustable suspensions.

In this one instance at least (fully adjustable suspension) a Chevy Nova is better than a DeLorean.

[jerzybondov]

Definitely a design flaw in what is otherwise an excellent and beneficial product. Hopefully Dave Swingle will see your pics too. I've sent him pics of the other owner's bushings walked out. Dave is providing the pivot bolts now (and Grade 8 rather than stainless inset washers). It would be a simple change for him to provide longer pivot bolts and hardened backing washers.

Great diagram. Can I ask where you sourced your hardened washers from and what size (diameter) you got?

[m81dmc]

I would place an extra washer between the antiroll bar end nuts and the rubber bushing moving the arm forward on the antiroll bar.

Basically just an extra washer. This would adjust the caster forward on that side.

I have not done this, nor heard of it being done, just so you know.

I would also be sure to double nut the antiroll bar and use loctite.

If the others dont see a problem with this thats what I would do.