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  1. #11
    Member jerrysony's Avatar
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    still in trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean03 View Post
    Ok guys. Let's fill him in on what you're telling him. With 2 posts to his name, we have no idea if he knows what "the plug swap" means, or if he even knows what the RPM relay is. Let's fill in the blanks a bit.

    First thirdman, get in your car. Turn the key to where the lights all come on (battery light specifically) but you are not trying to turn the engine over (you're not trying to start the car). This gives the fuel pump a moment to prime. Now, try turning the engine over (in other words, turn the key as far as possible as if you're trying to start the car), and pump the accelerator pedal while you do it (assuming you have an auto transmission). Sometimes, you can get the engine to catch by pumping the pedal, and the car may hold on long enough to start and idle properly. This would help get fuel through the fuel system - something that may not be the case if you just replaced the accumulator, and the fuel system hasn't had a chance to get fuel through the components.

    If that doesn't work, do "the plug swap" as mentioned earlier. If you do not know what that means, this is what it means. There are two devices in your engine bay - the cold start valve and the control pressure regulator. Nevermind what they do, these are pictures of each:

    The control pressure regulator: it'll be on the driver's side valve cover of the engine. It'll be directly north of the tube where you pour new oil in whenever you do an oil change (I'm assuming you've done oil changes, if not just look for the tube with a "little black hat" on the end. Right above that tube is the location of the control pressure regulator):


    The cold start valve:


    Now, you'll note there are "plugs" on each device - a blue one on the cold start valve (CSV) and a "grey" one on the control pressure regulator (CPR). Take the blue one off of the CSV, and take the grey one off the CPR. Hook the grey one onto the CSV, but DO NOT put the blue one on the CPR. Now, go try to start your car. It should start, and it'll be kind of "rough running." While this is happening, put the plugs back in their respective places (blue on CSV, grey on CPR). The car should hang on and idle smoothly after a couple seconds.

    If that doesn't work, trying "jumping the RPM" relay. The RPM relay is located in the electrical compartment behind the passenger's seat. It looks like this:



    Once you've located it, unplug it from the electrical connector it's hooked up to. It'll only go back on one way specifically, so don't worry about how to reconnect when the time comes. From there, you need to devise a "jumper" - a wire with 2 male spade connectors - one on each end of the wire. Spade connectors typically are rectangular in shape. Once you've made the jiumper, "jump the RPM relay" as seen in this picture:



    This, in essence, forces the fuel pump to run even if you are not trying to start the car. Once you've jumped the RPM relay as seen in the picture above, try to start your car. If it starts in this case, your RPM relay may be working intermittently. Unhook your jumper, re-hook the RPM back up to the electrical plug, and try to start your car normally. If it starts, good deal. If not, might need to look into a new RPM relay.

    I hope I didn't come off as rude to the people who have made suggestions - I just wanted to fill in the details.
    First of all thank you delorean3 for your detailed explanation.
    I have the same problem. Car cranks but no starts. I did the "plug swap" and the car started, but if I remove the feet of the accelerator it dies again (automatic). If then I put the plugs back in their respective places it won´t start again. Any suggestions?
    I have to mention that it all started since I replaced the injector seals Part #:102631, replaced the air intake gaskets GASKET KIT
    102574 and repair the GSKT-LWR HSG/T/V Part #:102772. Has something to do with the distributor?

  2. #12
    Senior Member Bitsyncmaster's Avatar
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    Jumping RPM relay

    Rather then writing down pin numbers to know where to jump the RPM relay to power the fuel pump. Just remember to jump the two heavy wires. These happen to be brown and white/purple.

    Now if your going to run the car on a trip without the RPM relay, you need a three way jumper, jumping the two heavy wires and the double wire pin (double yellow/red). That way your fuel pump and lambda system gets powered.
    Dave M vin 03572
    http://dm-eng.weebly.com/

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrysony View Post
    First of all thank you delorean3 for your detailed explanation.
    I have the same problem. Car cranks but no starts. I did the "plug swap" and the car started, but if I remove the feet of the accelerator it dies again (automatic). If then I put the plugs back in their respective places it won´t start again. Any suggestions?
    I have to mention that it all started since I replaced the injector seals Part #:102631, replaced the air intake gaskets GASKET KIT
    102574 and repair the GSKT-LWR HSG/T/V Part #:102772. Has something to do with the distributor?
    The "plug swap" is only meant to get it started, once running you must quickly put the plugs back in their previous spots or it won't run very well. Since you replaced some gaskets you need to make sure you have no vacuum leaks or forgot to hook up any vacuum hoses.
    David Teitelbaum

  4. #14
    Administrator Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrysony View Post
    I did the "plug swap" and the car started, but if I remove the feet of the accelerator it dies again (automatic). If then I put the plugs back in their respective places it won´t start again. Any suggestions?
    Sounds like you need a helper to un-swap the plugs for you??

    Once you have confirmed there are no vacuum leaks and everything is hooked up stock, you might try removing the breather and giving it a shot of ether under the air flow sensor plate.

    If you don't have ether, you can press the plate down as far as it will go (quickly) and immediately release it.
    This makes all of the injectors spray fuel, so don't do it too many times or you will definitely flood the engine.

  5. #15
    Member jerrysony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Sounds like you need a helper to un-swap the plugs for you??

    Once you have confirmed there are no vacuum leaks and everything is hooked up stock, you might try removing the breather and giving it a shot of ether under the air flow sensor plate.

    If you don't have ether, you can press the plate down as far as it will go (quickly) and immediately release it.
    This makes all of the injectors spray fuel, so don't do it too many times or you will definitely flood the engine.
    I just looked a loose hose. Is it ok or should it be attached to the pipe next to it? Could it be the cause?

  6. #16
    Member jerrysony's Avatar
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    hoses swap

    I also noticed that the fuel lines 7 and 10 were swapped (see diagram below).
    The thing is I unswapped them and now the car won´t start neither with the plug swap method nor using starter liquid right on the plate.
    Any reason why the PO did that? Should I re-swap them?fuel+system+diagram2.jpg

  7. #17
    EFI'd dn010's Avatar
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    That is just a "vent" hose.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrysony View Post
    I just looked a loose hose. Is it ok or should it be attached to the pipe next to it? Could it be the cause?
    -----Dan B.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dn010 View Post
    That is just a "vent" hose.
    Depends which hose was being circled. I agree with you on the vent hose on the left coming from the top of the control pressure regulator.

    The hose coming off the backside of the oil filler plug there looks to be like it also is cut off. It might just be the angle of the photo and it could be pointing straight down, but that one generally is plugged into the air filter housing. As part of the evaporative system to keep all fumes or gases contained, it recycles those fumes back into the air inlet system. I have heard others say this won't affect air or vacuum as it should be on the side of things before it gets metered, but I personally don't like to look past a known connection that isn't per the design and assume it isn't having an impact. Might be small, might be no impact at all, but is also very easy to connect it the way it was supposed to be.

    IMG_4463.jpgVacuum_Routing.jpg

    EDIT: Also, Jerry, what's that hose in the upper right hand corner of your photo, just to the right of the blue plastic connector? It looks to me like a hose with a split in it. The brownish diamond-y shaped part that looks like a split in the hose, but can't really tell.
    Last edited by Jonathan; 09-25-2015 at 01:18 PM.


    Sept. 81, auto, black interior

  9. #19
    Member jerrysony's Avatar
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    Johnatan. That's preciselly the hose that goes out of the csv tÃ*o the distributor. The one that was swapped

    Enviado desde mi SGH-M919V mediante Tapatalk

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrysony View Post
    Johnatan. That's preciselly the hose that goes out of the csv tÃ*o the distributor. The one that was swapped

    Enviado desde mi SGH-M919V mediante Tapatalk
    So, a fuel line? Is it compromised in some way or is that just the way the image looks?


    Sept. 81, auto, black interior

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