I care about perception more than liability. Get it?
Location: CLE/PHX
Posts: 2,592
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I care about perception more than liability. Get it?
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Location: Sunfield, Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,444
My VIN: 1798
I understood that too - and again, another reason to fully explain yourself as opposed to allowing for unwarranted speculation, at least IMHO anyway. Tillsy's post is evidence of this. Get it yetOriginally Posted by DPI JOSH
Location: CLE/PHX
Posts: 2,592
My VIN: 5646,5080, 5880, 10234, 3639, 2518, 10586, 1538
Alright since this is getting closer and closer to relentless banter we need to move on. This is starting to negatively influence productivity on paying customer work every time I need to log in here. Since I know from your posts above that you want to be the solution and not the problem we can safely put your concerns to rest and close this conversation down.I understood that too - and again, another reason to fully explain yourself as opposed to allowing for unwarranted speculation, at least IMHO anyway. Tillsy's post is evidence of this. Get it yet
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Location: Waukesha, WI
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Club(s): (DMWC) (DCUK)
If you're so busy, you don't need to be constantly primping and preening your online perception.
I don't imagine anyone is holding a gun to your head and making you post.
If online forums take up too much of your time, just let your products speak for themselves.
Location: CLE/PHX
Posts: 2,592
My VIN: 5646,5080, 5880, 10234, 3639, 2518, 10586, 1538
I've got this piss ant to constantly deal with. You may know the guy.
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After taking a night to cool off and sleep on it, I've decided to make one final post outlining this entire issue from my perspective. I'm not here to start a witch hunt, I started this post in desperation so I could at least find out what was happening. Now I know, and although I wish it had gone differently, I at least have some closure. I won't be responding here further unless some other development makes it necessary, and I am not asking for or expecting to ever hear from Josh again on this or any other issue. This is all I have to say.
In the interest of full disclosure, I fully understand Josh's stated position regarding sketchy work. My car is certainly in that category, I will be the first to tell you that it's a piece of crap and that some of its issues are straight up my fault due to my own incompetence - hell, I set it on fire once. I've had numerous DMC vendors tell me that if they ever saw my car in their shop they would insist on removing the entire engine and starting over - and I would 100% do that if I had the budget. In fact, as my financial situation eases up, it's one of the options I'm considering now.
That being said, when dealing with a basket case's problems sometimes you need to do things differently to keep the car alive. Josh seemed to understand my problem and agree with my approach - I've have adopted the 'if I touch it, it is replaced with the best available part' mentality. In this case I wanted a full set of top-end engine seals but I already had head gaskets since my car can't use standard DMC head gaskets. Therefore I asked for the DPI gasket kit because it was new-manufactured 'high end sealing technology'. I also wanted to try making a serpentine belt conversion using the original timing plate and valve covers. I discussed this with Josh at length and he had no issue with it at the time. I asked him to source a water pump that would fit the standard 2.8 block but with a serpentine pulley on it. My goal here was to do the work as well as possible with the best possible parts so that I didn't have to revisit it or deal with parts failure.
Up until a few days ago I was entirely under the impression that what I asked for was available, that we were in the process of doing business, and the delay was solely due to extenuating circumstances. It took several (initially reluctant, then desperate) public posts to get an answer of any kind, and I had given up any hope of a happy outcome. After weeks of silence and two public Facebook posts that were immediately deleted without a response, this post was answered via PM inside of two hours:
I will let that speak for itself. Incidentally, for something to be slander or libel it must be untrue. Describing a factual experience with someone is not slanderous or libelous. Expressing concern that small orders not being fulfilled may impact larger, more difficult orders is not an attack. I'll concede that I wrote that while frustrated and it may have been out of line (and if anyone believes it was, I apologize for it), but it was not defamatory. If I ask a company to provide something small and it turns into a fiasco, I would assume that asking for something large would be even more of an issue.
Again, I understand 100% if someone doesn't want to deal with a special issue, and if that had been what was said, I would have been disappointed but not surprised. But this is a company with a public-facing online parts store, and the majority of purchases on that store are likely not being installed by DPI. Granted that my car is a basket case, but a TON of our cars are basket cases. If unauthorized or improper work is such a problem for DPI's business approach that they selectively refuse to sell parts, I wonder why the web store is still up.
Below you will find a timeline in image form of my entire experience since June. I have included every piece of contact I have had with DPI since December including some conversations that aren't specifically relevant but show my previous amicable conversations. If you want just the basics of what happened here skip to images 7 and 8. Image 7 (#6 in the URL) shows my recent Facebook chat history with Josh regarding this issue.
http://imgur.com/a/pHdtc#0
The timeline:
12/12/13 I have an extended Facebook chat regarding my plans for the car
06/22/14 I email DPI asking to make a purchase
A few days later I call and speak with Josh regarding same. He says he'll have to order the pump and it'll take (some amount of time I don't remember)
07/08/14 I email asking for an update. No response
07/14/14 Facebook message asking for an update. No response.
07/23/14 Same thing again. At this point I have begun calling every few days and never get an answer again. I believe I left two voicemails at this point.
08/04/14 Not shown in images, I make a bunch of phone calls (at least six throughout the day) and never get an answer.
08/04/14 I respond to his personal page (and apologize for it) in an attempt to get some info
08/05/14 I receive a Facebook response telling me that he has a "gasket kit and pump ready to go". I ask for an invoice by email and I am told it will be sent 'first thing tomorrow'. No mention is made of a 'public posting policy' or a refusal to do business.
08/08/14 Facebook message asking for invoice. No response.
08/11/14 Email asking for invoice. No response.
08/18/14 Email asking for invoice. No response. I make something like a dozen phone calls throughout this day.
08/19/14 Facebook comment on public status asking for an email response or phone call, voicemail is now full ( for clarity I did not leave a message every time I called, only on the first calls in July and I believe one in mid August).
08/22/14 Another comment on another public status asking for a response.
08/22/14 I post what I guess we're calling an 'outburst'. This was in response to several other issues I was having, DPI was included but I specifically avoided mentioning the company or even that it was about a car. I was frustrated at having four companies simultaneously giving me the run-around, not specifically at Josh.
08/26/14 I give up and post to the DPI public business page. No screenshot because it was deleted in minutes.
08/29/14 I post another response to the same page, somewhat annoyed. Screenshotted, because it was also deleted in minutes.
At this point I came here and made my first post. Two hours later Josh sends me the PM I quoted above and the rest is largely here.
This post is solely to provide a complete and accurate context to this issue. I am not inciting or encouraging any action against DPI. I believe I have been civil and patient this entire time and have carefully avoided expressing myself in any way that could be deemed hostile or as an attack. The intention of this post is context and accuracy to the best of my ability.
Next week I am going to get back to my car and try to figure out what to do next. Good luck to all of you.
Location: Sunfield, Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,444
My VIN: 1798
Just for the record - all you did was offer your honest opinion in regards to large project work, premised upon your individual experience with your parts order.
Your 100% free to assert such an opinion without fear of retaliation/retribution, as such is NEVER defamatory - and quite frankly, I hate it when armchair attorneys attempt to assert otherwise.
Location: CLE/PHX
Posts: 2,592
My VIN: 5646,5080, 5880, 10234, 3639, 2518, 10586, 1538
What you requested is not available in our general selection meant for DIY owners. I didn't want to say anything as posted above but since you mentioned it the circumstances are important. The engine situation is questionable which you wanted parts for and I didn't want to be part of it. It's nothing personal but I gave you constructive directions to go with it on multiple occasions and you blew it off with wanting to give what you had a try. I found it as unacceptable.
Would you like for me to point you to exactly where the parts come from?
In regards to a PM received on this subject from Nightflyer:
I don't care who you talk to or what you spread throughout this community. The products offered by DPI are truly superior in every way compared to what is on the market and especially anything NOS. Don't bother attacking me with the "loss of business" due to the people that look up to you for advice. Frankly I don't have time for it. 99% of the people that do business with DPI have a great experience and purchase parts constantly. I"m friendly, helpful and actually care about what I sell and offer. You don't see me offering any products that require a massive recall, failures out of the box etc. People respect that.
This conversation is a double edged sword. People will take this two ways: My approach as either being egotistical as nightcryer mentioned to me or as me standing up against what can be called nothing short of what it is. The have not owners of the community attacking me at every chance. Yes there are classes within this community and there is no point in dancing around it. This is why the forum is flawed. It is a megaphone for the ones that like to cry. I"m not perfect by any means but I don't need to get rail road constantly by the same broken records on here.
Per your accusations of a ego driven business I will state the below fact. Just because it is true doesn't make it an egotistical stand point that drives me. I am very lucky to have cornered a niche'.
Since I know objectively looking at things is one of the only ways to get through lets look at this situation. At this point DPI offers over 700 unique products not available any where else and counting. If you want the premium products from DPI you must deal with me. Other wise you are stuck with NOS or brand X. I"m constantly innovating, constantly shipping processed orders and everyone seems happy but a select few. Do you even comprehend what I am trying to do for this community? At a massive investment from me personally I have developed full stainless chassis, engine blocks, cylinder heads, almost every bracket on the car and performance options for every level of ownership. I don't think you realize what I am truly giving to this community. I don't see anyone else lined up working at this level to preserve the ownership and long term reliability of this platform.
I am not going to try and please everyone. I spent years trying to do that and failed.
Josh S. (Nightflyer) due to your persistence on causing trouble within this community that clearly only exists when you are involved DPI will no longer be willing to do any business with you. The current wheel refurbishment swap options still stands per our prior agreement. I apologize to you personally for having to take this approach. I feel that I have tried to work with you and give attention when required in hopes that you would not fuel fires for no purpose. This appears to have failed terribly and I have been left with no choice but to go on the defense over it.
In closing: Conversions like this are a waste of time on every level no matter how positive or negative they are. I will be working to quickly withdraw from the use of this forum as a medium for anything short of constant innovation of products, services and over all development of the DMC-12. Any further threads such as this or the direct blasting of DPI by those in the community who seek power from behind a keyboard will be left unanswered. All while I will continue to post at the same time regarding what ever I came out with that day.
EDIT: Without changing the actually content above. I mistakenly typed nightcrier instead of nightflyer. This was unintentional within the post.
Last edited by Delorean Industries; 08-30-2014 at 01:14 PM.
www.deloreanindustries.com Every Detail Matters
Location: Sunfield, Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,444
My VIN: 1798
Yeah... for the record, I never stated to you that I thought that your approach was egotistical. I only relayed to you, without naming any specific names, what others had stated to me in confidence in what they were taking away from your situation with AdminralSenn and interactions in the thread. I was attempting to provide you with some insight and friendly advice to assist you in your business endeavors. Either you inadvertently misread/misinterpreted/failed to comprehend my PM to you, or you did so knowingly and intentionally, for whatever reason (of which, I honestly don't have clue).
But I never personally asserted such to you, thus I'd appreciate it if we could set the record straight on this.
I'm sorry that you feel that I 'persistently cause trouble within the community,' as that clearly is not my intent. But if that's the way you feel about me, that's fine, as that's your prerogative, and I respect your decision regarding such.
I'll be in touch in the near future to conclude our business regarding the wheel swap.
I'm sure it was
Location: CLE/PHX
Posts: 2,592
My VIN: 5646,5080, 5880, 10234, 3639, 2518, 10586, 1538
Right your message said that some felt that way. Not you directly.
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