Auto trans won't start moving in 1st, but only with cold engine

[DL4567]

Hi guys,

My auto trans is showing a symptom more and more often, from very occasional starting about a year ago to both the last times I drove the car.

When you first start it up and nothing has warmed up yet, and you put the gear selector in "D," the transmission is in 2nd or 3rd gear (not 100% sure which) when you try to start moving. The car will go, but it's clearly struggling in too high of a gear. If I move the shifter down from "D" to 1, it will engage 1st gear as intended, and will pull away from a stop like it's supposed to. But put it back in D while stopped and it seems to be in 3rd.

The whole issue goes away after just a few minutes of driving, or long enough that when I get to the first traffic light or stop sign, it starts in 1st with the gear selector in "D" no problem. But pulling away from home, out of the driveway, and away from the end of my street (while the car's still warming up) is when it'll do this thing.

ATF fluid level is fine, and the diff/final drive fluid should be fine too. I've had no trouble with it over the last 10 years of ownership. Like with a lot of things on this car, when something starts to go wrong with a certain part of it, I begin reading and learn how complicated that one part can be, so I realize there may not be a simple answer. But I keep reading most issues boil down to the shift computer. Should I start with getting the new digital governor? It's not like 1st gear doesn't work at all, only when everything's cold, and only some of the time.

Thanks for any help and advice.

[AugustneverEnds]

Sounds a lot like the governor is beginning to fail. My guess is once everything is up to temperature the soldered parts of the governor's boards actually begins to conduct and the transmission shifts normally. You can repair the governor if you are inclined (haven't tried personally). Or replace it with a new digital setup. Since you caught the problem at least you know not to let the car take off in 2nd and destroy the clutch packs. Hope you get your governor sorted out soon! :wave2:

[DMCMW Dave]

Typical governor failure. Don't drive it much like that unless you do manual shift it, starting in second all the time is really rough on internal clutch packs.

[DL4567]

Thanks Nick and Dave for your responses, it is very much appreciated. Dave, I'll remove the computer and send it in to you for the digital upgrade. Do I send in everything in this photo? Or just the beige "computer" part?

http://store.delorean.com/images/Product/large/104218.jpg

[DMCMW Dave]

Thanks Nick and Dave for your responses, it is very much appreciated. Dave, I'll remove the computer and send it in to you for the digital upgrade. Do I send in everything in this photo? Or just the beige "computer" part?


The whole mess. That way we can test it and repair any damaged wiring. You will get the same one back. Be kind to the post office - put in in a couple of plastic bags before you box it.

[DL4567]

Ok, will do. :)

[D Knight]

Damn just saw to send the whole lot. Dave I just sent you mine without the solenoids. You should see it today or tomorrow. I also asked Julie if you can send the old boards back with it. Thanks!


-D Knight-

[NightFlyer]

Damn just saw to send the whole lot. Dave I just sent you mine without the solenoids. You should see it today or tomorrow. I also asked Julie if you can send the old boards back with it. Thanks!


-D Knight-

That's what happens when you rave too hard :biggrin:

[DMCMW Dave]

Damn just saw to send the whole lot. Dave I just sent you mine without the solenoids. You should see it today or tomorrow. I also asked Julie if you can send the old boards back with it. Thanks!


-D Knight-

You don't send the solenoids. Just that wiring. The solenoids are inside the transmission.

[DL4567]

Alright, after struggling for a couple of days with this job, I finally got the governor out of the car. Everything is always more complicated than I expect, but hey, I've learned something again about the car. :thumbup:

Just have a few quick questions, please bear with me.

The pan was sealed with some sort of grey/black sealant and no gasket whatsoever. The pan was really stuck to the trans and I had to pry it off. Despite my best efforts to be careful, the flange got bent a little bit, but I will try to straighten it before re-installing. Based on my research of old threads, the way to go is to use the cork gasket from DMC and no sealant?
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8x4MM8bNtbM/U8ct-HAaLBI/AAAAAAAAA-4/RMSsEIz3h08/w685-h514-no/IMG_2994+%2528Custom%2529.JPG

What about the filter? I know there are no replacements available, so is there anything I should do with the one in there or just leave it alone?
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c3z_wLgIUW4/U8ct-d0zgfI/AAAAAAAAA-s/t1q8ipl2YWg/w685-h514-no/IMG_2992+%2528Custom%2529.JPG

The solenoid connector is held merely by this clip, right? http://store.delorean.com/p-8816-clip.aspx There is no nut or anything? Just replace the o-ring and it's good?

Between the exhaust crossover pipe and the top of the transmission, there was a melted piece of what appears to be textured vinyl. Any ideas what this was or where it was supposed to be? I took it out, and assume it's nothing to worry about. The A/C line seems to be unaffected by heat there.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NnyVBrzcf8I/U8ct-FmTaOI/AAAAAAAAA-Y/kFCGUr6_PP4/w685-h514-no/IMG_3000+%2528Custom%2529.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-L4i1hfQ5-t4/U8ct-mTygFI/AAAAAAAAA-g/hPW0XxlJhAw/w685-h514-no/IMG_3001+%2528Custom%2529.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/v5rUUs0Z3_8ydvRO6CiVzrcCwgYlbhPfsQiBz_jeQ7w=w685-h514-no

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3hlYC8Ic7FE/U8ct_a6tGLI/AAAAAAAAA-w/e4xNHTK62jU/w685-h514-no/IMG_3003+%2528Custom%2529.JPG

[SIMid]

I'm not mechanically experienced, but having read numerous posts, I heard that you can clean the filter by pulling apart, clean it and reinstall it. Someone I believe (correct me if I am wrong), installed a magnet to try and attract metal particles into the filter.

As for the vinyl melted piece, looks like electrical tape.

[DMCMW Dave]

I'm not mechanically experienced, but having read numerous posts, I heard that you can clean the filter by pulling apart, clean it and reinstall it. Someone I believe (correct me if I am wrong), installed a magnet to try and attract metal particles into the filter.

As for the vinyl melted piece, looks like electrical tape.

http://store.delorean.com/p-7114-zip-on-tubing.aspx

It is supposed to be wrapped around the harness along the wall behind the engine. Someone dropped it.

[DMCMW Dave]

Alright, after struggling for a couple of days with this job, I finally got the governor out of the car. Everything is always more complicated than I expect, but hey, I've learned something again about the car. :thumbup:

Just have a few quick questions, please bear with me.

The pan was sealed with some sort of grey/black sealant and no gasket whatsoever. The pan was really stuck to the trans and I had to pry it off. Despite my best efforts to be careful, the flange got bent a little bit, but I will try to straighten it before re-installing. Based on my research of old threads, the way to go is to use the cork gasket from DMC and no sealant? ]

It appears that it was sealed with "The Right Stuff" Sealant with no gasket. It's acceptable but kind of messy. The gasket is readily available, but you still need to use sealant on it.

[Dangermouse]

I'm not mechanically experienced, but having read numerous posts, I heard that you can clean the filter by pulling apart, clean it and reinstall it. Someone I believe (correct me if I am wrong), installed a magnet to try and attract metal particles into the filter.

As for the vinyl melted piece, looks like electrical tape.

The filter isn't readily dis-assemble-able; you have to somehow bend back the steel flange around the edge and drill out the the grommets that the bolts go through.

You can reverese clean it a bit with carb cleaner, but as you will see there are big areas that you can't get at.

There should already be a magnet in the pan to collect the worst of the dirt. Depending on the amount of black dirt in the pan may dictate how much you want to try disassembling the filter

[David T]

The filter isn't readily dis-assemble-able; you have to somehow bend back the steel flange around the edge and drill out the the grommets that the bolts go through.

You can reverese clean it a bit with carb cleaner, but as you will see there are big areas that you can't get at.

There should already be a magnet in the pan to collect the worst of the dirt. Depending on the amount of black dirt in the pan may dictate how much you want to try disassembling the filter

There is supposed to be a doughnut shaped magnet placed over the dimple in the pan. It can only attract ferrous particles. The filter is for the non-ferrous stuff like friction materiel from the clutches and brass/bronze from the bushings and shims. The pan can be pounded out flat against a 2X4. You should use a cork gasket and if you use sealant only put it on the pan side. The filter can be pried apart or the edge ground off to get it apart. The filter was not designed to be cleaned but it can be done. In fact, you HAVE to disassemble it to clean it and they are no longer in stock. It is essential you reassemble it correctly or you can damage the transmission. There is a how-to in the files section. After you get it all back together check the level in the final drive and the line pressure. In fact, check all of the external adjustments.

[Jonathan]

It appears that it was sealed with "The Right Stuff" Sealant with no gasket. It's acceptable but kind of messy. The gasket is readily available, but you still need to use sealant on it.

How important would this have been to know when I replaced my gasket last season? I did not realize a sealant was needed in addition to the cork gasket and thus did not use one. I am chasing a couple small leaks, mostly gear oil from what I can see, but at least one small spot is red ATF. Like the OP said, once you've done it once and learned, the next time is pretty straight forward and putting in a new gasket with sealant wouldn't be terribly hard if it was supposed to be that way all along.

29030

Here's a picture of the pan with the magnet in it for the OP. The magnet is small and rectangular and is stuck right up against the right side of the drain opening in the photo.

[David T]

How important would this have been to know when I replaced my gasket last season? I did not realize a sealant was needed in addition to the cork gasket and thus did not use one. I am chasing a couple small leaks, mostly gear oil from what I can see, but at least one small spot is red ATF. Like the OP said, once you've done it once and learned, the next time is pretty straight forward and putting in a new gasket with sealant wouldn't be terribly hard if it was supposed to be that way all along.

29030

Here's a picture of the pan with the magnet in it for the OP. The magnet is small and rectangular and is stuck right up against the right side of the drain opening in the photo.

You shouldn't have to use sealant. If it leaks it is probably because the pan is not flat. Some mechanics use just some dabs of sealant to hold the gasket in place while installing the pan. If you do use sealant only put it on the pan, it is easier to clean because you can do it on the bench, not upside down under the car. Check the "O" ring for the dipstick for leaks.

[DMCMW Dave]

You shouldn't have to use sealant. If it leaks it is probably because the pan is not flat. Some mechanics use just some dabs of sealant to hold the gasket in place while installing the pan. If you do use sealant only put it on the pan, it is easier to clean because you can do it on the bench, not upside down under the car. Check the "O" ring for the dipstick for leaks.

I'll disagree with this one. The factory didn't use sealant, but they were also using a "virgin" pan and the original gaskets had spacers to keep you from over tightening the bolts. Without sealant you will get leaks, and then tighten it further, and then it will split the gasket.

[David T]

I'll disagree with this one. The factory didn't use sealant, but they were also using a "virgin" pan and the original gaskets had spacers to keep you from over tightening the bolts. Without sealant you will get leaks, and then tighten it further, and then it will split the gasket.

Using sealant makes it a LOT more work to remove. The biggest source of leaks is because people overtighten the bolts. That bends the pan and makes leaks. Once it starts leaking the temptation is to tighten the "loose" bolts even more! Using sealant can help prevent leaks but IMHO you shouldn't need it if you use the right gasket, the pan is flat, and you don't overtighten the bolts. If you do use sealant you have to get the surfaces clean and dry or it won't stick.

[RammJaeger]

I'm having this exact same problem with my car. How hard is it to remove the governor? Do you have to pull the pan? Is there a decent tutorial on the forums on how to remove the governor (i.e. including lots of pictures, not just a wall of text that only a master mechanic can understand)?

[Jonathan]

I'm having this exact same problem with my car. How hard is it to remove the governor? Do you have to pull the pan? Is there a decent tutorial on the forums on how to remove the governor (i.e. including lots of pictures, not just a wall of text that only a master mechanic can understand)?

Dermot did an excellent job writing up a tutorial on this very subject. Have a look and see if this is what you need.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7648-How-To-Remove-the-Automatic-Transmission-Governor-Computer

[DL4567]

Got the transmission computer back from DMCMW a few days ago (the turnaround time is amazing) and am putting it back in today. Last night I worked on cleaning the pan -- what a chore to get off all that sealant -- and after getting it all clean, bending the pan flanges flat again, I decided the outside needed a fresh coat of paint.

I'm probably going to leave the transmission filter alone. Just get some of the easy to reach dirt as best I can.

(the magnet is not lost, I just removed it for cleaning)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vpKZAOFcsns/U9z_7De5ECI/AAAAAAAABAw/r0Dw6Nek2SU/w800-h450-no/20140801_211254.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UJmGgmDKPm4/U9z_8BhCErI/AAAAAAAABBM/OTzwlTlhcAY/w800-h450-no/20140801_211217.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-oADTVipep5c/U9z_7E1CrzI/AAAAAAAABA0/LIF3UOXhpLY/w800-h450-no/20140801_211337.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-a0Q4hBtilEc/U9z_73Cm7aI/AAAAAAAABBI/gRnxkEoBkjg/w800-h450-no/20140801_211346.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kg8MYi-J7CE/U9z_7yIox-I/AAAAAAAABBE/a1pLygfyzvo/w800-h450-no/20140802_110042.jpg

[David T]

IMHO you are making a mistake not taking the filter apart to clean it. It is impossible to get the filter cleaned without disassembly. You will be amazed at the amount of debris that can be inside and it will block the suction to the pump. It is not all that difficult to do, there is a write-up in the files section.

[DL4567]

It is not all that difficult to do, there is a write-up in the files section.

After searching for 20+ minutes, I cannot find that. Anyone have a link?

[NightFlyer]

After searching for 20+ minutes, I cannot find that. Anyone have a link?

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/autotransfilter.html

[DL4567]

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/autotransfilter.html

Thanks for that. Heh, I don't even think to search DMCnews anymore.


IMHO you are making a mistake not taking the filter apart to clean it. It is impossible to get the filter cleaned without disassembly. You will be amazed at the amount of debris that can be inside and it will block the suction to the pump. It is not all that difficult to do, there is a write-up in the files section.

Dave, I think you're right. I removed the filter and tried backwashing some trans fluid through it, and it really is amazing to see endless little grit come pouring out. Guess I'm going to the hardware store for some 1/4" copper tubing. Is the solder really necessary? If I get the two ends of the copper to butt up to each other nice and tight, would that work?

[David T]

Thanks for that. Heh, I don't even think to search DMCnews anymore.



Dave, I think you're right. I removed the filter and tried backwashing some trans fluid through it, and it really is amazing to see endless little grit come pouring out. Guess I'm going to the hardware store for some 1/4" copper tubing. Is the solder really necessary? If I get the two ends of the copper to butt up to each other nice and tight, would that work?

Soldering the ends together keeps the tubing from working apart and loosening up. Probably don't need to do it but it can't hurt. If you can't solder find a plumber friend or get a cheap soldering kit at Home Depot. You need a torch, can of gas, solder and flux. The "trick" is to get the copper very clean with sandpaper or a steel brush or the solder won't stick. VERY important you reassemble the parts in the correct order. If you get the order wrong the screen will block the intake and you will quickly burn up the transmission. Once you get everything together and running do a line pressure check.

[DL4567]

Well, I gave it my best shot, and overall am pleased with how neat I got the copper, BUT, I'm not happy with how the ends of the copper are situated. Despite all of my best efforts, there is a slight gap between them, and the end coming around the tight curve wants to pull away from the filter edge. Anyone who has worked with metal knows that you have to bend it further than you want and let it spring back to where you want it to be, but that is near impossible when wrapping it around something. You can bend the curve smaller when it's off the filter, but then you have to bend it open again to get it around the filter and then you end up with the end wanting to spring open. There is some slack in the curves on the ends, and if you squeeze the whole thing, the gap comes together, but again, it's hard to fix because of the springiness of metal described above.

My "plan" was for the two ends push against each other, and hold tight to the filter, which is why I put the seam on that inner curve. But it seems that's hard to actually do.

I tried to close the gap with solder, and no matter what (flux paste, sanding the copper clean) the solder would not stick. I smeared some black sealant in the gap, but I'm assuming that's not a good long term solution. Tomorrow I may try pulling the copper off and bending it smaller, or worse, make another piece all over again. Ugh.

Thoughts?

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jSkQe7wQCEI/U92mz5Qw5SI/AAAAAAAABB4/j5SMq8rAoSM/w727-h545-no/IMG_3070%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tMULGcUINgc/U92mzDkVEPI/AAAAAAAABCA/K5A0NwWGX4M/w727-h545-no/IMG_3065%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QXdkPMBuBFc/U92mzACPj5I/AAAAAAAABB8/jqNtfl3y_6M/w727-h545-no/IMG_3066%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-j_5tEDxc7N0/U92mzHQ5KdI/AAAAAAAABB0/Lxnw7PDDorU/w727-h545-no/IMG_3067%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3Omj491mfrg/U92mzpbiarI/AAAAAAAABBw/aKPJVKr77zk/w727-h545-no/IMG_3068%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

[Dangermouse]

What was the state of the filter innards?

[NightFlyer]

Couldn't you just use another small piece of rigid copper to make a compression clip that would fit over the seam?

Or drill a small hole and use a small stainless nut/bolt to hold the two halfs/internals together at the seam?

Or get some better solder - higher lead content :wink:

[DL4567]

Couldn't you just use another small piece of rigid copper to make a compression clip that would fit over the seam?

Or drill a small hole and use a small stainless nut/bolt to hold the two halfs/internals together at the seam?

Or get some better solder - higher lead content :wink:


During the lengthy process, with plenty of time to think to myself, I wondered if a bunch of small nuts and bolts around the edge of the filter might be a viable solution, because that would be a hell of a lot easier than the copper tubing.



What was the state of the filter innards?


Oh yeah, I forgot. Here you go:

(the grey triangle area collected while grinding the edge -- it wasn't that dirty. see old pic in one of my earlier posts from under the car)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wdCLmaCIAVE/U922CJ1QXgI/AAAAAAAABCc/VW_5trJfgNk/w727-h545-no/IMG_3042%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7yYDrGTCYn4/U922CJ_8h9I/AAAAAAAABCs/cgSMpyBtCtU/w727-h545-no/IMG_3043%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-x3mprmzLHwY/U922CFgnklI/AAAAAAAABCk/U9H-1aPYQEM/w727-h545-no/IMG_3044%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

And after cleaning:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JKNUGF3QHNU/U922CoMIH4I/AAAAAAAABCo/QTr-6Ka2T1s/w727-h545-no/IMG_3045%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

[Jonathan]

Thanks for documenting Derek. As an auto trans driver, I too need to learn about this. Next time my pan comes off the filter will be getting cleaned like you're doing.

I would be interested in knowing what someone out there with past auto trans filter disassembly experience sees or thinks about the dirt/grit shown in Derek's picture? I read on different blogs about how crucial it is to keep the ATF system clean, enough so to be very protective of where you lay the dipstick if not in the car, etc. Just not sure what the reality is for grime or debris of any kind being in there. I wouldn't want to do a trans rebuild anymore than anyone else out there would.

[DL4567]

I'd be interested in knowing too, as taking apart and re-assembling the filter is not easy. Getting the copper edge right is very difficult. Would be nice to know if this is really "worth it."

BTW, for anyone else doing this, here's a tip. Bend the copper tubing to the shape of the filter before cutting the slit. I made a straight one first, then tried bending it around the filter and you can see it didn't go so well. The copper started kinking around the curves. If you pre-bend it, it'll maintain a much smoother appearance.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qAfSwGYVflc/U957bFbsoxI/AAAAAAAABDY/hkXozi4zrJ0/w727-h545-no/IMG_3048%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GOStqm4wN4c/U957a7T3TcI/AAAAAAAABDQ/_G5TGMUhS2w/w727-h545-no/IMG_3050%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-H1DGtd0o_eM/U957bDz8urI/AAAAAAAABDM/hv2iFkuMgKk/w727-h545-no/IMG_3056%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_-cno3NakqQ/U957buW1nEI/AAAAAAAABDU/j9mfnvzryCI/w727-h545-no/IMG_3058%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lm_g6PzGwdI/U957b7aTJ2I/AAAAAAAABDg/DnkMUj19pPg/w727-h545-no/IMG_3059%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jSkQe7wQCEI/U92mz5Qw5SI/AAAAAAAABB4/j5SMq8rAoSM/w727-h545-no/IMG_3070%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

[David T]

If you put the joint on the other side where it is straight it is easier to make the joint. If you keep beating the copper flat you can stretch and work it a bit longer so the ends can meet. The filter didn't look too bad so you probably still have plenty of life left in the clutches. Of course we don't know how much was in there the last time it was cleaned since you said the cover was glued back on so it is obvious it was removed at least once before.

[Jonathan]

That's a good point David about you don't know what is in there until you open it up and find out. And with so much variation on any of these cars for how they were driven, stored or maintained, it's just about impossible to come up with some if x = y then do this sort of maintenance, but if z = w then do something else or nothing at all.

It might be of value if we added to this thread or a similar one, some pictures of how yours looked after you got it open before cleaning AND you add as much context as you are aware of in terms of car history, condition, miles since last change, etc.

It could be another sub-thread for that helpful pictures resources section idea we were talking about. I know I sure could use a couple of visual comparisons for things I open up and go "yay, looks good to me" when I really have no idea what it should or shouldn't look like. Shoot, I could open something like this up for the first time to discover the internals aren't even in it and you wouldn't know it because you have no clue what it was supposed to look like!

[alexwolf1216]

That looks like a job I should do, but dang I really suck at soldering.....and that scares the daylights outta me.

[DMCMW Dave]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jSkQe7wQCEI/U92mz5Qw5SI/AAAAAAAABB4/j5SMq8rAoSM/w727-h545-no/IMG_3070%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

I would not use any kind of sealant inside the trans. It will eventually fall off and plug something, at least the filter, maybe worse.

[DL4567]

Well I got it all back together, put the pan back on and poured in 3 quarts of ATF, 2 days ago. Came out to the garage today to check the level, top it off if necessary, and take the car for a test drive. What I found, as I feared would happen, were leaks.

I used sealant, and didn't tighten the pan bolts too much, as everyone says don't overdo it or it will leak, and the service manual says only 2-3 ft lbs of torque. I also replaced the o-rings on both cable/plug/parts that go into the back of the transmission. Looks like the drivers side is ok, but the passenger side one is the biggest leak. Strangely though, I don't see fluid right where the beige plastic touches the trans, rather it's coming from the black plastic. Is it possible for that connector to leak between the black and beige? Or is it definitely coming from the trans-hole?

I guess my plan is to remove the pan again and re-do it with "the right stuff" sealant, and also add sealant to the passenger side plug-connector hole, but the working time is so much shorter I'm afraid 5 mintues is not nearly enough time to get a neat bead around the whole pan, all 13 bolt holes, get it in place, and tighten 13 bolts.

I tried tightening the pan bolts a little more today, and noticed they had another 1/4 turn in them with less resistance than before. I know cranking too hard causes leaks, but is there a chance this will stop the gasket leak? (would be nice if I didn't have to re-do the pan)

Any tips/advice or anything I should be aware of before re-doing this?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b27XTfAfsdc/U-aR7wUeOUI/AAAAAAAABE8/4gUvz5lKcCk/w727-h545-no/IMG_3118%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wxXQsbhJESk/U-aR9QhMBMI/AAAAAAAABFQ/MnxBdwd1A0g/w727-h545-no/IMG_3126%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

Driver's side (looks dry):
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UuUxSisThtw/U-aR71TyVJI/AAAAAAAABEY/zbxgEI2HRhQ/w727-h545-no/IMG_3119%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

Front (looks dry):
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-v2rr7ry8PAw/U-aR78qd_zI/AAAAAAAABEk/wdpALyenv98/w727-h545-no/IMG_3120%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

Front-passenger side (very slight moisture):
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CYqF0AkXjfc/U-aR8mpo7aI/AAAAAAAABFA/ok6EZeBFtf4/w727-h545-no/IMG_3121%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QX-W2E1AdDg/U-aR8lWupCI/AAAAAAAABEw/TErSSYi7bQk/w727-h545-no/IMG_3123%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7G2kIfzoBbQ/U-aR8_Ez3ZI/AAAAAAAABEo/9VG-63IL1Bs/w727-h545-no/IMG_3124%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

[Jonathan]

Derek,

From the last couple photos you show there, it looks to me more like it is the shift computer component seals than the pan gasket. Mostly because you can see some ATF above the pan gasket and the ATF won't wick itself or drip up. Could still be leaking at the pan gasket, but it's almost certainly leaking at those governor seals above the pan gasket.

How did the O-rings look on the governor components? I don't have the complete list handy of how many O-rings are on them or which ones are still available unfortunately. There is one of those governor components whose seal is only accessible with the pan removed... I think. I heard that at one point but don't know from my own experience.

Cooler hoses and dipstick tube seal would be the other places to check for leaks. There is another thread going on with this same subject too if you're looking for more info.

[DL4567]

Job done! :)

So on Monday I pulled the pan off again, as well as that passenger side connector. My plan was to re-use the new cork pan-gasket with The Right Stuff sealant, but cleaning the other sealant off it was much more difficult (impossible) than I expected. And since The Right Stuff is meant to be used as a gasket "replacement," I thought what the hell and gave it a shot. (Also, when I started this job my pan only had sealant on it -- no gasket, and it seemed to be fine.)

Working quickly, and having a drill ready with an 11mm socket attachment, I was able to get the new sealant put around the edge and all the pan bolts in place in under 10 minutes, then snugged it all up with a socket wrench. As for that black/beige connector, it really looked like it was leaking *through* the connector itself rather than the transmission hole around it. So I put Right Stuff around where the arrow is in the picture below, to hopefully stop possible leaking out of there. Of course I also put it around the o-ring and pushed the connector back into place.

Even though it says you can put the parts back into service immediately, I let it sit about an hour before filling with ATF. Turned on the engine and let it warm up for about 15-20 min as I checked the level. After 4 qts, the dipstick still showed "cold" so I ended up putting in a total of 4 1/2 - 5 ish qts. Took the car for a test drive, and everything works as it should -- i.e., nice! Not exactly the "best" test of my shifting problem since it only happened when the car was cold, but I'm still 99.99% certain the problem is fixed. Dave S. was able to replicate my computer telling the car to start in 2nd before doing the digital upgrade, so that makes me feel confident that was indeed the problem.

So with a new computer, fresh fluid and fresh filter, the biggest difference I notice is that when I move the gear selector lever, the gears engage very smoothly. No "clunk" whatsoever. Other than the starting in 2nd problem, the shifting while driving worked pretty well before so I don't notice a huge difference there, but I wanna say it does shift a bit faster and more sure of itself. I'll probably continue to appreciate the difference as I keep driving it.

Bottom line -- very happy to have the upgraded computer, and The Right Stuff does indeed work extremely well. After a drive and 2 days, there is barely a hint of a drop under the car. Nothing leaking from the pan, and the faint hint could be from that connector still, or maybe even gear oil from something else.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VoCWL9rGj1w/U-r4q1Jj0LI/AAAAAAAABGE/zt_D4mgz2UI/w727-h545-no/IMG_3128-with%2Barrow%2B%28Custom%29.jpg

Added TRS sealant all around:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-IvePpWfXiIc/U-r4q46af6I/AAAAAAAABF8/NLayFg4WLZw/w727-h545-no/IMG_3129%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xzNCtFJsxXA/U-r4rMIkP9I/AAAAAAAABF0/4DnCoG2W4EE/w727-h545-no/IMG_3130%2B%28Custom%29.JPG

After the test drive -- there *may* still be a slight leak from this connector, very annoying but also very slow:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ryOHhEaSil4/U-r4qJ-26_I/AAAAAAAABGA/APxoLCQwhDM/w800-h450-no/20140811_200705%2B%28Custom%29.jpg

Overall pretty dry. Vast improvement with The Right Stuff:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WPkO9lzwXRQ/U-r4qbDgqgI/AAAAAAAABFk/c5rHNmUUmZ8/w800-h450-no/20140811_200833%2B%28Custom%29.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-H0at7IMljeU/U-r4qYl0_AI/AAAAAAAABFo/hpgAwi7kCYw/w800-h450-no/20140811_200951%2B%28Custom%29.jpg

[DL4567]

A week later and a clean drip-pan. Nice!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2HWAWreil8o/U_FCiUeLKrI/AAAAAAAABGk/2svQJI2WBa8/w800-h450-no/20140817_194812%2B%28Custom%29.jpg

[Jonathan]

A week later and a clean drip-pan. Nice!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2HWAWreil8o/U_FCiUeLKrI/AAAAAAAABGk/2svQJI2WBa8/w800-h450-no/20140817_194812%2B%28Custom%29.jpg

That's great Derek!

What would you say was the item needing to be tightened or resealed that made the biggest impact on stopping the leaks? Was it your shift computer connection you mentioned was leaking through? Or something right at the pan seal? Or something else?

[DL4567]

That's great Derek!

What would you say was the item needing to be tightened or resealed that made the biggest impact on stopping the leaks? Was it your shift computer connection you mentioned was leaking through? Or something right at the pan seal? Or something else?

The biggest leak seemed to be the passenger side transmission computer connector, but the edge of the pan and gasket was wet on more than just the spot right under that connector. So I think the pan had a bit of a leak too. Before re-doing things, I sprayed degreaser on everything and wiped it dry, and it didn't take long for the edge of the pan to look shiny again. But I'm willing to bet 75% was through that connector.