Locked my keys inside car while working on door locks. Any advice?

[zimvsdib]

please delete

[DMCMW Dave]

.

Never mind I guess....

[NightFlyer]

http://www.deloreans.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2731&view=next

[Tillsy]

Why delete the posts? If someone searched this topic in future there would have been information here - now that is gone?

This isn't a chat room, it's a repository of knowledge :)

[zimvsdib]

Sorry guys. I locked my keys in my car while working on the door lock linkage.
The door interior panel was off and i installed a new window regulator also. I thought i had the linkage perfect.
The bell crank moved smoothly back and for locking the car door and unlocking with the proper "clunk" sound.

Well i had the window rolled up by mistake and shut the door to test it. Keys inside and cell phone….
The door opened the rear latch but the front one was not opening. This keeps happening and i don't know what I'm doing wrong. It works fine and then it gets stuck,mind you this is with the solenoid out and not door electronics connected. The lock need to be unlocked again to open. I'm not sure why the front is in "lock" mode.

This brings me to my next plan "Wedgectomy" search this term if you are unfamiliar. Its a modification that improves door lock mechs.
I can post some info if you like. (what i have read elsewhere)
Anyway i posted this in efforts to get a clever way to get back inside but no one replied right away so i had to call a locksmith.
FYI 150 bucks to open. He had to make a key because he couldn't pic the lock. I guess the double sided key isn't conducive to that and forget the slim-jim trick.

Any one have this problem with with your doors?

[zimvsdib]

BTW i am going to voice frustration with the old central lock module. I hate it. The 350 for the digital dmc one just sounds like extortion.
I recently read a post by RobvdVeer:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?9926-Door-lock-solenoid-REPLACEMENT-with-actuator

To me this reads that this module will totally replace the dmc part for 10 dollars. I posted a comment but haven't heard back.
Anyone done this yet?

http://www.deloreaneurotec.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=436&p=56209#p56209

[Tillsy]

Well i had the window rolled up by mistake and shut the door to test it.

That's a really good idea - I've done a lot of work on my doors and never thought to keep the window down during that process in case anything happens.



The door opened the rear latch but the front one was not opening...The lock need to be unlocked again to open. I'm not sure why the front is in "lock" mode.

Hang on a second. Unless you have made the modification to the mechanism so that the latches do not "physically lock", it is not possible to close the doors whilst in a locked state - the latch will sustain a direct impact and damage can result. I would almost suggest it is not locked but is simply not unlatching - but you've already mentioned unlocking the door (or getting a locksmith as you had to resort to) was how the door was opened. I'm puzzled...



BTW i am going to voice frustration with the old central lock module. I hate it. The 350 for the digital dmc one just sounds like extortion.

Credit where credit is due, whilst doing various work with my digital one I've noticed it has various smarts in it...

Say you locked the doors while they were open - they both immediately unlock again. Important as the door mechanisms physically lock so closing the door would otherwise cause a solid impact and associated damage (unless you have modified the mech so it doesn't have that flaw).

Say one of the solenoids or actuators doesn't lock properly - again immediately unlocks both doors again.

Likewise it will not allow the solenoids or actuators to have power left on them, provides inputs for controlling the doors via security system, etc.

Both doors lock in sequence - not sure if that's what the original controller did, but based on other replacement circuits that all have a low-power focus I've presumed this is intentional so only one solenoid is powered at a time.

I'm not defending the price at all, it is pretty rich, but I've noticed it has got some good safety features built in.

[zimvsdib]

Hang on a second. Unless you have made the modification to the mechanism so that the latches do not "physically lock", it is not possible to close the doors whilst in a locked state - the latch will sustain a direct impact and damage can result. I would almost suggest it is not locked but is simply not unlatching - but you've already mentioned unlocking the door (or getting a locksmith as you had to resort to) was how the door was opened. I'm puzzled…
Credit where credit is due,

No modifications were mad to the doors at all. I setup the door linkage closed the door (while I'm inside)
ran through lock unlock procedures. Used the latch to open back up.

Then i got out, closed the door(remember, not attached to any electronics). Pulled the handle and pow back opens and front doesn't. It like its locked. Did the door slam down shift the lock position halfway?

I was thinking striker position? Maybe one is releasing before the other?
Is the outer handle isn't tugging enough cable to unlatch the front, just the back but.
I'll try to check that these options out in a few minutes.

I did fix another problem with the window today. The Window glass made contacted with the metal guide tracks halfway down to down. It sounded horrible. There is a nut that exists inside the door that you can loosen. this hinges the window toward or away. You can set the new position and lock down the nut again. Window is perfectly aligned.

Yes i understand about the DMC module. When you got to stretch a dollar a little breadboard hidden in the fuse box isn't what you want spend it on. I more interested in pretty stainless fuel lines. just sayin

But seriously has anyone tried this china made module that can lend some input?

[zimvsdib]

was how the door was opened. I'm puzzled...

He made a key then i opened the passenger door reached over and hit unlock and pulled the open latch.
Opened right up.

[Elvis]

BTW i am going to voice frustration with the old central lock module. I hate it. The 350 for the digital dmc one just sounds like extortion.
I recently read a post by RobvdVeer:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?9926-Door-lock-solenoid-REPLACEMENT-with-actuator

To me this reads that this module will totally replace the dmc part for 10 dollars. I posted a comment but haven't heard back.
Anyone done this yet?

http://www.deloreaneurotec.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=436&p=56209#p56209


no, that is just a remote add on.

no need to buy a new door lock ecu - the original one can be updated for $10 to work great and reliable.
just use the search function and find details .

I do these uprades all the time for 10 years now, at least 50 are around now.
I've also been selling remote units - plug and play, all it needs is a connector soldered in the ECU (4 wires).


P.S: - that picture is too large...

[robvanderveer]

BTW i am going to voice frustration with the old central lock module. I hate it. The 350 for the digital dmc one just sounds like extortion.
I recently read a post by RobvdVeer:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?9926-Door-lock-solenoid-REPLACEMENT-with-actuator

To me this reads that this module will totally replace the dmc part for 10 dollars. I posted a comment but haven't heard back.

excuse me, all the instructions are in the topic mentioned. is there anything I missed?

yes, i use a remote only, but i've wired it in a way to totally replace the lock module, because i already switched to actuators, it really was a $10 solution,

[DMCMW Dave]

[QUOTE=Elvis;150124]no, that is just a remote add on.

no need to buy a new door lock ecu - the original one can be updated for $10 to work great and reliable.
just use the search function and find details .

I do these uprades all the time for 10 years now, at least 50 are around now.
I've also been selling remote units - plug and play, all it needs is a connector soldered in the ECU (4 wires).
QUOTE]

I.E. note to the original question the remote unit does not replace the original lock module, Elvis upgrades the original module.

Aftermarket remotes will not directly run the OEM solenoids. I believe what Rob is probably doing is using the aftermarket remote with some external relays.

The DMC module is quite a bit "smarter" as it works as Tillsy explained, i.e. if the doors are not closed or the locks jam, it backs off so it will not lock you in the car or melt the solenoids or run the battery down. It will also directly operate lock motors (as opposed to solenoids) without any external relays. It is a direct plug in and just works. It will take an external remote input with no modifications.

Yes, a lot more expensive ($250, not $350) than wiring up your own solution, but not everyone is an engineer.

[robvanderveer]

Aftermarket remotes will not directly run the OEM solenoids. I believe what Rob is probably doing is using the aftermarket remote with some external relays.

Yes, the aftermarket remotes will not work with the solenoids. It's all in that topic. If you read it (and I don't blame you for not having read it), what I did is the following: the PO replaced the original lock module and solenoids with a cheap central locking and actuators. The central locking was crap, so I replaced it with another device, just to see how cheap i could get it working. Yes, my remote directly triggers the actuators because the remote IS a set of relays. I just used an external relay to trigger to trunk release.

[zimvsdib]

Yes, my remote directly triggers the actuators because the remote IS a set of relays. I just used an external relay to trigger to trunk release.

Thank you for clearing this up Rob. I thought that was true but everyone I asked about it said "no" you have to have the door lock module in there.
This is pretty incredible what you have figured out.
A 10 dollar remote, wired to you specifications (no modifying the inside)
Will replace the door module *only if you convert to the actuators. Not external relays needed! No solenoids allowed tho.

My door module is crap. All the smart features that exist on the digital Dmc version are mostly to protect and operate the solenoids properly. So if you want actuators its not really designed for you.
Rob with your setup can you do the following? ( I just want to be very clear)
Lock/unlock from inside door
Lock/ unlock from outside key
Use the remote to lock/unlock doors
Use the remote to trigger door opener actuators
Any cons of this setup(do we loose and original features)

Sorry if you are repeating anything from your article here but I think people should know about this. The door lock module is one of the car's systems that's way outdated and I believe in looking for Good alternatives to high priced items. Dmc can charge what they want for a circuit board but we don't have to pay for it is we embrace these cool alternate ideas like Robs come up with.

Elvis, I think your solution is great too and more purist. But I 'm looking for simple. As simple as possible with no moving parts and Rob's remote setup is just that.

[robvanderveer]

My door module is crap. All the smart features that exist on the digital Dmc version are mostly to protect and operate the solenoids properly. So if you want actuators its not really designed for you.
Rob with your setup can you do the following? ( I just want to be very clear)


With the remote that I bought (this is kinda critical because there are several variations on ebay):

Lock/unlock from inside door: YES, but only manually and not synchronised (the other doesn't go when you do one)
Lock/ unlock from outside key: YES, but only manually and not synchronised (the other doesn't go when you do one)
Use the remote to lock/unlock doors: YES, that is kind of the point.
Use the remote to trigger door opener actuators: YES, but it needs additional relay and wiring (I set it up to release the trunk but it could as well be used to launch the doors)

Any cons of this setup(do we loose and original features). (it is lose features, btw). You NEED actuators. This is not going to work with solenoids. The biggest con is that you lose the 'central locking' feature (which I hate by the way), so unlocking/lock one door manually (either from the inside, or outside with the key) does not unlock/lock the other door. When using the remote, both doors lock/unlock of course. One benefit of the remote is the feedback through the headlights, one blink: lock, two blinks: unlock.

Potential feature: I still have one 'windows' wire available, supposedly this could be used to close the windows automatically when you lock the car. It's nothing more that a feed that grounds for 30 seconds on 'lock'. When the locks prove to be stable, I might add this feature at a later stage.

EDIT: Oh I forgot, the remote comes with a 'find me' feature, hold 'lock' for 5 seconds and your headlights start blinking for 30 seconds. Could be handy if you cannot find your precious DeLorean in the dark in a large parking lot, when it is hidden between multiple SUV's.

[zimvsdib]

Lock/unlock from inside door: YES, but only manually and not synchronised (the other doesn't go when you do one)
Lock/ unlock from outside key: YES, but only manually and not synchronised (the other doesn't go when you do one)
Use the remote to lock/unlock doors: YES, that is kind of the point.
Use the remote to trigger door opener actuators: YES, but it needs additional relay and wiring (I set it up to release the trunk but it could as well be used to launch the doors)



Thanks Rob. Very helpful.
I'm trying to think why i would miss non-syncronized internal or outer key locking…
If you unlock with a remote upon approach and remote lock when you exit you have no problem.
If a passenger (this always happens) hits the lock switch instead of the door handle and your door is open you won't have any issues.

Auto doors locking during vehicle operation would be missing but is that a big deal? Besides someone doing something dumb like pulling the latch while in motion i don't think there's any safety issue. I'm not really worried about car jackers GTA style.

[robvanderveer]

Thanks Rob. Very helpful.

Auto doors locking during vehicle operation would be missing but is that a big deal?

Autolock? that one is new to me.

[zimvsdib]

Autolock? that one is new to me.

My mistake. I was under the impression that the new DMC module locked when the vehicle was in motion. Am i wrong there?

Regardless I'm sold on this setup. I wouldn't miss anything.

[DMCMW Dave]

Yes, the aftermarket remotes will not work with the solenoids. It's all in that topic. If you read it (and I don't blame you for not having read it), what I did is the following: the PO replaced the original lock module and solenoids with a cheap central locking and actuators. The central locking was crap, so I replaced it with another device, just to see how cheap i could get it working. Yes, my remote directly triggers the actuators because the remote IS a set of relays. I just used an external relay to trigger to trunk release.

In your mod does the central locking still work or is it remote only? Sounds like you are not using original solenoids either, so installing some sort of actuators in the doors will add to the $10.

Not trying to give you a hard time! Just trying to make sure someone doesn't think they can install a generic remote without any sort of other controls, with OEM door solenoids and have a fully functional system.

No, I had not gone back and read it all - - - I try but not this time.

------------------------------

Other note- -the DMC controller does not auto-lock. That would take a lot more electronics, as on a manual trans car there is nothing in the basic electronics of the car that indicates the car is moving.

IMO Autolock is the work of the devil and is disabled on my driver cars (other than on one Chevy where there was no way to do it without killing the locks entirely). But that's just me. I find it a terrifically annoying "feature".

[robvanderveer]

In your mod does the central locking still work or is it remote only? Sounds like you are not using original solenoids either, so installing some sort of actuators in the doors will add to the $10.

Not trying to give you a hard time! Just trying to make sure someone doesn't think they can install a generic remote without any sort of other controls, with OEM door solenoids and have a fully functional system.

No, I had not gone back and read it all - - - I try but not this time.


Dave, i've answered all your questions about 4 posts back.


IMO Autolock is the work of the devil and is disabled on my driver cars (other than on one Chevy where there was no way to do it without killing the locks entirely). But that's just me. I find it a terrifically annoying "feature".
Yes. I agree.

[NightFlyer]

IMO Autolock is the work of the devil and is disabled on my driver cars (other than on one Chevy where there was no way to do it without killing the locks entirely). But that's just me. I find it a terrifically annoying "feature".

:thumbup:

[Tillsy]

For thoroughness it's worth pointing out the door controller (both old and new) are connected to the inertia switch so that (in addition to fuel being halted) the doors are automatically unlocked in a collision.

In the particular cases here this doesn't matter as you guys have explained you don't lock doors whilst driving, but always good to have all the facts in case others with a different opinion read this thread in future and not realise they would be bypassing this safety feature.

[robvanderveer]

Thanks for pointing that out, Tillsy