Valve Cleaning Sea Foam or walnut

[zimvsdib]

I was going to put my car back together today but after looking at the valves with a flashlight i noticed it's got some heavy carbon buildup.
I checked here for any info on cleaning these out properly but couldn't locate anything.
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I think i have 2 options so i was wondering what people have done for this cleaning?

1.Sea Foam to soak the cavity for a few hours and then scrub out the soupy melted carbon left over with a shop vac.
This would require rotating each valve to top dead center so there is a seal created and the Sea foam and carbon won't leak down.

2.Rent or buy a media gun and walnut media to blast each manifold opening. This would also require each valve to top dead center. This solution is faster and yields a cleaner result but you need to purchase the unit, is it something you want to buy to use once. I had this process done to my 335i bmw intake manifold at the dealership. The results were very noticeable on that car.

3.???

Walnut is biodegradable and will burn away if there is any kernels left and Sea Foam says you can add it to oil safely. Both products are safe for your system. Anyone done either who could share the results?

Is there a "how to" for rotating each valve to TDC? I know there are a few "how to"s on setting timing but not for this application. Any info
would be helpful.

[Flash66]

I don't know about blasting them. Sea foam is good stuff!

[David T]

I don't know about blasting them. Sea foam is good stuff!

Some build-up is normal. If you use a good gasoline it has additives to clean these deposits slowly so big chunks don't break off and muck things up. If the valves are not sticking or leaking I would not touch it.

[zimvsdib]

Some build-up is normal. If you use a good gasoline it has additives to clean these deposits slowly so big chunks don't break off and muck things up. If the valves are not sticking or leaking I would not touch it.

Hey David, i understand if its not broke don't fix it but i was looking at this as preventative work. Do these look normal to you? I thought they looked really bad but i don't have anything to compare it to beside more modern cars. A lot of people have told me that the additives don't really work all that well.

Would you not agree that if this was a spotless valve the engine would operate more like factory new, and thus be more efficient?


I don't know about blasting them. Sea foam is good stuff!


Flash, What experience do you have with SEA FOAM? Seems like it's an incredible product from what I've seen online.

[Bitsyncmaster]

That valve build up looks more than normal. Sure it will run another 50,000 miles but I would also want to clean that out. Back in the old days with leaded gas, you always pulled the valves and wire brushed them clean. With our heads and the possibility of disturbing the cylinder seals you now have to decide if you pull the heads or do what your trying to do with other means.

How many miles on that engine? You may want to pull the heads anyway to check the cylinders for wear. Maybe it burns oil and you need new rings.

[Flash66]

I have a Hayabusa that sat for a good while. After cleaning the fuel system and a full tune it wouldn't run properly for quite a long time. After using Lucas and other stuff, I ran some Seafoam through it and it improved dramatically after the first tank. A terrible idle and bad stuttering in the power band was cured. Been using it ever since. Honestly, with the way those valves look and since you're so close, pull those heads, order some valve stem seals and bring them to an engine shop and have them done. For a couple of hundred bucks you'll be bringing home some brand new heads! Slap them on, and adjust your valves. I cannot stress enough that this will be the BEST tune up you can do.

[David T]

I have a Hayabusa that sat for a good while. After cleaning the fuel system and a full tune it wouldn't run properly for quite a long time. After using Lucas and other stuff, I ran some Seafoam through it and it improved dramatically after the first tank. A terrible idle and bad stuttering in the power band was cured. Been using it ever since. Honestly, with the way those valves look and since you're so close, pull those heads, order some valve stem seals and bring them to an engine shop and have them done. For a couple of hundred bucks you'll be bringing home some brand new heads! Slap them on, and adjust your valves. I cannot stress enough that this will be the BEST tune up you can do.

Unless you have other reasons to remove the heads I would leave it alone. Do a compression test and a coolant system pressure test. The fuel injectors squirt at the intake valves and some deposits are normal. I agree this is a lot but if the motor is running well I would not disturb it. The combustion chambers are probably filled with junk too. Where are you going to stop and how much are you willing to spend?

[DMCMW Dave]

. I had this process done to my 335i bmw intake manifold at the dealership. The results were very noticeable on that car.
.

At how many miles? (non DMC question here, personal interest).

[zimvsdib]

At how many miles? (non DMC question here, personal interest).

79,000 miles on my 2007 335i

[zimvsdib]

Honestly, with the way those valves look and since you're so close, pull those heads, order some valve stem seals and bring them to an engine shop and have them done. For a couple of hundred bucks you'll be bringing home some brand new heads! Slap them on, and adjust your valves. I cannot stress enough that this will be the BEST tune up you can do.

Thats really tempting but ive never gone farther than taking out the intake manifold. Im really quick at it now, but ive never dealt with the heads and feel a bit leery with their removal. Don't i have to remove the seals, cams, sprockets, and take the chain off? I don't know much about doing timing yet. I'm sure like everything else its probably easy after that initial learning curve.

im guessing a shop would charge 400 each head to rebuild huh.

[zimvsdib]

That valve build up looks more than normal. Sure it will run another 50,000 miles but I would also want to clean that out. Back in the old days with leaded gas, you always pulled the valves and wire brushed them clean. With our heads and the possibility of disturbing the cylinder seals you now have to decide if you pull the heads or do what your trying to do with other means.

How many miles on that engine? You may want to pull the heads anyway to check the cylinders for wear. Maybe it burns oil and you need new rings.

Thats what i thought. I 've got 45,000 miles on this car. Maybe youre right about the rings.
Yeah im a bit hesitant to pull those out since im a bit inexperienced at it but also because the people telling me to leave it alone. Not sure why people are saying that.



Unless you have other reasons to remove the heads I would leave it alone. Do a compression test and a coolant system pressure test. The fuel injectors squirt at the intake valves and some deposits are normal. I agree this is a lot but if the motor is running well I would not disturb it. The combustion chambers are probably filled with junk too. Where are you going to stop and how much are you willing to spend?

David, a couple questions.
What will the coolant system pressure test tell you that would relate to this? I know the compression or leak down will let you know if there is a leak in either the rings/exhaust or intake gaskets.


I have some mechanical instincts to clean that up before i put it all back together. Please tell why i should not disturb the heads? Is this a can of worms i don't want to open for some reason?
And no, I don't have a ton of cash to spend right now. I just spent a bunch on other little repairs/upgrades, so if its a costly procedure i would probably have to wait on it.

[Mark D]

From what I understand if you pull the heads you run the risk of upsetting the cylinder liner inserts in the bottom half of the engine. If you were to pop one loose while pulling the head off you'd need to pull the engine and basically rebuild the bottom end to reseat the liner.

Read here:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6638-Piston-sleeve-moved

[David T]

From what I understand if you pull the heads you run the risk of upsetting the cylinder liner inserts in the bottom half of the engine. If you were to pop one loose while pulling the head off you'd need to pull the engine and basically rebuild the bottom end to reseat the liner.

Read here:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6638-Piston-sleeve-moved

This is correct. You could possibly disturb the lower liner seal. Other possible complications include:
Breaking studs on the exhaust manifold
Dropping/losing parts in the wrong places
Messing up the cam timing
If you don't have the special tools you will mess up the chain tension and have to take even more things apart
Messing up the cam timing
The deeper you go into the motor the more serious the complications can become. Without good reasons to do this you take a lot of risks with little reward. Especially if you don't have a lot of experience at this kind of stuff. Just because you can doesn't always mean you should. It takes some effort and control to decide when to stop. There are way too many projects where the owner gets in over his head and then it just sits because he doesn't know what to do. I mention doing these tests to help determine if there is any reason to pull the heads, a bad head gasket, a leaky valve, etc. I would recommend checking, and if necessary, adjusting, the valves.

[zimvsdib]

It takes some effort and control to decide when to stop.

Yes indeed. I have a lot on my plate right now. Good advice. I'll return and attack this with a backup plan in case something problematic should arise and when im more setup to take the heads off.

Now i could try adding the SEA FOAM to the gas as an additive then peek at these in a few months BUT im just a bit concerned that the additive will brake off some bigger chunks at once and cause issues. Maybe i'll refrain from using that too.

...just walk away Eric.

For now.

[Flash66]

Every so often a chuck will break off anyway. This shouldn't harm anything and is part of the normal life of an engine. It's only carbon. I would suggest spraying a small amount of PB blaster on the valves and let it soak into the carbon deposits and reassemble. Use a can of sea foam and run that puppy!