Noise from brakes

[Josh]

So I have had a re-occuring problem with my brakes. The entire brake system was rebuilt 9000kms ago and the problems started occuring at 5000kms in. So everything is new.

I have a terrible squeeling when I turn left. It starts as soon as I deviate from driving straight to about half way to lock.I think it is coming from the front drivers side wheel, but I could be wrong. It is a brake issue as it goes away when I hit the brakes.

-Ensured the stub axle was fully seated, as I did not install angle drive properly. It was fully seated (suggested by Dave at DMCMW)
-Carefully inspected dust shields and ensured they are not touching the rotors
-Adjusted my parking brakes. it seemed to solve the problem but then the noise came back. Re-adjusted them and it made no difference.
-Re-torqued all caliper bolts and suspension bolts.
-The front knuckle is in perfect shape, not bent or anything.

The noise seems to be getting worse, it is quite embarrassing when pulling up somewhere.

Any input? I can upload a video if that would help.

[Ron]

Did you disconnect the speedometer cable and try it?

Video = GOOD!

[Josh]

Did you disconnect the speedometer cable and try it?

Video = GOOD!

I have no speedo cable or angle drive. My gps is logging my mileage and showing my speed haha.

[martiq]

When it's getting worse and and apparently triggered by side pressure to the front wheel when turning, maybe the wheel bearing itself could be the cause.

/Martin

[Josh]

New wheel bearings all around 9000km ago. I just finished a frame off restoration. All bearings are torqued to spec via the nut on the stub shafts

[SS Spoiler]

I think you mentioned it, but I had a bad squeal caused by the right front stub axle being finger tight! I think it's
supposed to be 150lbs.

[DMCMW Dave]

What is the history on the pads and rotors (new, cut, sanded etc.)? Do the front pads have the shims installed? (You said "rebuilt" but that means different things to different people).

[Josh]

What is the history on the pads and rotors (new, cut, sanded etc.)? Do the front pads have the shims installed? (You said "rebuilt" but that means different things to different people).

New pads with shims installed. New rotors. The only part of the brakes that is not new is the actual caliper castings themselves (obviously :P). All new hardware, seals, lines, etc.

[David T]

New pads with shims installed. New rotors. The only part of the brakes that is not new is the actual caliper castings themselves (obviously :P). All new hardware, seals, lines, etc.

Some pads make more noise than others. Especially if you did not scuff or cut the rotors. Some venders sell a spring kit you put on the pins to keep the brakes quiet. May work for you and is not expensive.

[DMCMW Dave]

New pads with shims installed. New rotors. The only part of the brakes that is not new is the actual caliper castings themselves (obviously :P). All new hardware, seals, lines, etc.

The only on turns thing is a bit weird. Does the brake hardware kit have the anti-rattle springs (clips) too?

I suppose it's possible that the pads didn't get broken in quite right and got glazed a bit. You could try sanding the pads and rotors lightly to see if that helps.

Assuming you checked for play in the bearings (I know they are new, but stuff happens). Typical bearing failure is more of a rumble so unless they are just a bit loose allowing the rotor to cock and then hit something under load it's probably not the bearings. Keep in mind that when you tighten the outer nut, the limit of travel is the two inner bearing races coming together inside the bearing. If they missed that tolerance by even a few thou, the bearings could still be sloppy even with the nut tight. They would be quiet as the balls and races are still good. I've seen this happen but never cause a brake noise. If that were the case the rotor might move enough to hit the backing plate even though the clearance looks good.

You mentioned the parking brake as apparently having an effect initially. Go back and loosen them all the way out so that they don't work at all and see if that makes a difference (for testing purposes only!).

[Josh]

The only on turns thing is a bit weird. Does the brake hardware kit have the anti-rattle springs (clips) too?

I suppose it's possible that the pads didn't get broken in quite right and got glazed a bit. You could try sanding the pads and rotors lightly to see if that helps.

Assuming you checked for play in the bearings (I know they are new, but stuff happens). Typical bearing failure is more of a rumble so unless they are just a bit loose allowing the rotor to cock and then hit something under load it's probably not the bearings. Keep in mind that when you tighten the outer nut, the limit of travel is the two inner bearing races coming together inside the bearing. If they missed that tolerance by even a few thou, the bearings could still be sloppy even with the nut tight. They would be quiet as the balls and races are still good. I've seen this happen but never cause a brake noise. If that were the case the rotor might move enough to hit the backing plate even though the clearance looks good.

You mentioned the parking brake as apparently having an effect initially. Go back and loosen them all the way out so that they don't work at all and see if that makes a difference (for testing purposes only!).

To be honest, I couldn't figure out how to get those clips on so I left them off.

I will re-check for play in the bearings. I have heard failed bearings before and it does not sound like that.

I will try and eliminate the parking brakes and go from there! I took a video this morning and the noise is coming from both the front and rear wheels, specifically on the drivers side. Not just the front. So the parking brakes could be an issue. Glazing of the pads could be another issue, Ill scuff them up and see if that helps.

[Josh]

heres a video of the issue. It is definitely coming from the rear, but I think its coming from the front too. But mostly the rear.

Sounds I'm not concerned about: squeaky clutch pedal (needs some wd40), squeaky door (new struts on the way), and the clicking (drivers outer cv needs to be re-rebuilt. I must have messed something up.)


http://youtu.be/47qWLeTxwrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47qWLeTxwrI

[martiq]

When i first mentioned the bearings, I didn't mean the sound of af broken bearing. I meant the bearing being the cause of the brake noise. Dave explained it perfectly.

When thats said, and after watching the video, I think you can forget about the bearings. I would guess some sort of surface contamination of the pads, so inspect them an give them a scuff as you mention

regards
Martin

[DMCMW Dave]

To be honest, I couldn't figure out how to get those clips on so I left them off.

.

Like this:

29048

[Jonathan]

Josh, I think your problem is you left the door open while you're driving!! (just kidding)

More info on installing the anti-rattle clips here:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6149-How-To-Front-brakes-anti-rattle-clip-installation

The sound of that squeak is like something you hear on a playground with kids on the swings or whatever. You know, like a chain link pivoting/rubbing in it's hook as you go back and forth. Makes me think something more like you mentioned with the dust shield pieces in behind the rotor or maybe even the air deflector plates at the rear. Not sure how that would come and go with braking or the parking brake for that matter, but that squeaking noise doesn't sound the usually noises the car gets (and not the kind that goes away with the anti-rattle clips, if you do go back and put those on).

[Josh]

Well.... I feel like an idiot. I took all the rear pads out and sanded them down. The noise is now entirely gone!

Thanks for the picture, ill install the clips. Thanks for everyone's help.


Jonathan, this is the first time I've driven with the door open and im going much slower than it seems! But driving with the door open and hanging my hand out of the side with my phone is something I do not want to do anytime soon lol. Illegal and sketchy!

[Jacko]

I've had that noise before. I envisioned some grains of sand on the pad.
Usually I would put the car in reverse and brake several times. Sometimes
it worked.

[DMCMW Dave]

I've had that noise before. I envisioned some grains of sand on the pad.
Usually I would put the car in reverse and brake several times. Sometimes
it worked.

I had a very deathly scraping sound in another non DMC car. Sounded like the brake pads were gone, and highly metallic. I drove the car in reverse about 10 feet and whatever rock was jammed between the backing plate and the rotor fell out. No more noise.

[David T]

Well.... I feel like an idiot. I took all the rear pads out and sanded them down. The noise is now entirely gone!

Thanks for the picture, ill install the clips. Thanks for everyone's help.


Jonathan, this is the first time I've driven with the door open and im going much slower than it seems! But driving with the door open and hanging my hand out of the side with my phone is something I do not want to do anytime soon lol. Illegal and sketchy!

Good Practice on brakes is to scuff the pads a little and also the rotors in a circular motion going around the rotor on both sides so you don't get "threading" where the pads ride up and down like a needle on a record player. That causes clicking. Once you start driving you should brake gently (no panic stops) for about 500 miles till you "bed" the pads in with the rotors. If you get the brakes too hot too soon you can glaze the pads and the rotors and that causes noises and reduces the effectiveness of the brakes. It can be difficult to isolate where noises come from. I myself thought I heard a noise coming from the front and it turned out to be from the rear. Noises are sneaky and can be difficult to find and fix.