Instrument cluster(f&%k)

[Jonathan]

As the title suggests, I've got a couple things on my instrument cluster I'm not quite sure about. I have the binnacle out and did so to do a few things on the ole to-do list, and here's what I found:

- I did my trip reset shaft replacement. Seemed to go pretty well. I've had the parts for some time just never got around to tearing into the binnacle to get at it. Not sure why I really need it to work as my speedometer hasn't worked in ages. Anywho...

It seemed to reset the numbers pretty well. They were already at all zeroes from pressing the shaft remains with a pencil, but after trying it out with the new shaft, it worked while out of the cluster, but not so much after getting put back in. It's like the bigger wheel which runs in the track of the shaft is not catching all the teeth and thus not turning the smaller wheel above it. It's stuck on 555.5 at the moment because of this. Seems like there is too much slop in that pin/rod that keeps that wheel gear in place (which you remove close to the end of the steps of getting the old shaft out). Is there a more particular way that little metal tab/clip goes on to firm up how much that rod can move or not?

- When I took the speedo out, I successfully removed the three clips holding onto the plastic posts on the back of the speedo gauge surface. Needle nose pliers to squeeze the tab ends and it comes off nice and easy. I can't say the same for whoever must have been in there before me because there were two of those tabs rolling around freely inside the cluster when I opened it. And they both have the plastic end still pinched in them.

How many of these were there and where are they? My three on the speedo are fine and I can see the edge of one towards the outside edge beside the opening for where the tach goes (it gets removed as part of the reset shaft replacement). It's in place still and holding on to the side of the fuel gauge approximately. Are these extra that some slob never retrieved and just left floating around in there? Or did I snap them off of somewhere and haven't realized it yet? I don't see any locations obvious to me and it doesn't show up on the parts diagrams.

Dave T. sometime ago commented that he knew a car with speedo problems because of something that got jammed in the gears at the gauge. I kind of see now how that could have happened considering these two things were in there the whole time on my cluster.

Last thing is about the engine temperature gauge. What keeps the needle in one place? I don't get the sense there is some physical stop like on the speedo and when I put it all back in the car for test trial one, my needle had spun around the other way and was pointing kind of like at 4 o'clock or so. I turned the key and battery back on to test my bulb replacement work and when I turned the key to accessories, the needle went forward to almost 6 o'clock, but when turning the power off again, it goes back to 4 o'clock or so.

Is the needle just floating in there using some kind of electrical potential set-up when the power gets turned on? Is it held on by the Force? Where should I gently turn it to sit prior to buttoning things back up? I don't want to break it as you can likely guess.

Thanks!

[sdg3205]

#*^$&@^)*&$^)&# DELOREAN @*(#@&#)(@#&(*@#@ PIECE OF #&(*$&*@&#&*#$&(#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope that helps!

[NightFlyer]

S:01:04 of the workshop manual cover this situation...

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6684&d=1320785759

[SIMid]

S:01:04 of the workshop manual cover this situation...

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6684&d=1320785759

Is that you Josh in the pic?

[Jonathan]

Thanks for the help, jerky!! (j/k)

(I didn't see the attachment imbedded when looking on my phone and wondered wtf when I couldn't find a chapter S in the manual. D'oh!!)

Just found a thread on whacking the side of your binnacle (gently of course) when your temp needle isn't reading right. Yea, cause these cars are good like that!!!

Brutal. I do now have another thing to add to my "sarcastic window sticker" version... so far are my "4x4 appearance package: STD" and my "Lotus engineered plywood" parcel shelf: STD. "Manually improved performance cluster gauges": STD.

The car is getting closer to the Millenium Falcon I always wanted though. The whacking it to get it to work properly part that is :)

[NightFlyer]

The whacking it to get it to work properly part that is :)

I prefer "emergency repair procedure number one" from Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone (1983).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW0-nbERIzY

[NightFlyer]

Is that you Josh in the pic?

Sam really captured my good side, didn't he? :wink:

[Jeff K]

S:01:04 of the workshop manual cover this situation...

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6684&d=1320785759

This is absolutely awesome and describes my ownership experience perfectly.

[AugustneverEnds]

I think my temp gauge got stuck once at approx. three o'clock. Fixed by giving the cluster a few good flicks with the always useful index finger. Has been fine since :headbang:

[Bitsyncmaster]

I think my temp gauge got stuck once at approx. three o'clock. Fixed by giving the cluster a few good flicks with the always useful index finger. Has been fine since :headbang:

My fuel gauge got stuck also. There are no stops on some of our gauges and I do think they get stuck if they move to far off scale.

[DMC5180]

[QUOTE=Jonathan;151188]
Last thing is about the engine temperature gauge. What keeps the needle in one place? I don't get the sense there is some physical stop like on the speedo and when I put it all back in the car for test trial one, my needle had spun around the other way and was pointing kind of like at 4 o'clock or so. I turned the key and battery back on to test my bulb replacement work and when I turned the key to accessories, the needle went forward to almost 6 o'clock, but when turning the power off again, it goes back to 4 o'clock or so.

Is the needle just floating in there using some kind of electrical potential set-up when the power gets turned on? Is it held on by the Force? Where should I gently turn it to sit prior to buttoning things back up? I don't want to break it as you can likely guess.

Thanks![/QUOTE


This happened to me at the beginning of the 2013 driving season after sitting 5 months along with a few instrument bulbs not lighting up. I removed all Instrument bulb sockets and gauge retaining nuts and then cleaned cleaned ALL points of contact (exposed copper) on the PCB with TARNEX and Q-tips and the Brass tabs on the bulb holders with fine emery paper. I reassembled the cluster and every issue was FIXED. No more wonky temp gauge either.

[robvanderveer]

I think my temp gauge got stuck once at approx. three o'clock. Fixed by giving the cluster a few good flicks with the always useful index finger. Has been fine since :headbang:

my fuel gauge was always 1/4th off, because i flicked it round once too many. With recent work on my binnacle, i rotate it back one full turn, and now it looks fine again. This probably has something to do with the tension of the spring inside..

[David T]

my fuel gauge was always 1/4th off, because i flicked it round once too many. With recent work on my binnacle, i rotate it back one full turn, and now it looks fine again. This probably has something to do with the tension of the spring inside..

I did find one speedo head with the metal clip and a piece of a post floating around and another was stuck on the magnet of the speedometer jamming it and causing all of the usual problems of a broken angle drive and a messed up dust cover. Many of the electrical problems in the binnacle are caused by bad connections to the flexible PCB. Clean up the contact points of the PCB with some Scotch-Brite or fine sandpaper. The gauges do not have hard stops and sometimes they get stuck.

[Jonathan]

Ok, I'm making some progress.

I took the advice to get my cleaning tools out and did each washer/nut combo on the backside of the cluster as well as each bulb socket/plug's tabs. My high beams bulb is now working again and so is my brake light bulb. Giddyup.

I also see the engine temperature gauge isn't pointing the wrong way, but I haven't run the engine yet so we'll see if it functions normally later. The mention of contacts cleaning solving other issues will likely affect my tach in a good way as every so often it would bounce while driving. Nothing consistent and hopefully this makes that feature go away.

One question though... remind me what the difference is between a 161 bulb and a 194 bulb? I put new bulbs into the brake and high beams sockets even though I don't think they were actually burned out. I want to change out my battery bulb as it's not as bright as the brake one below and yet I can't see any markings on the bulbs well enough to tell which are which.

I had bought 6 bulbs over the years, two together and four earlier. In the photo here, the four original order bulbs are on the left, the ones I took out of the high beams and brake are in the middle, and the original battery bulb is on the right. You can see the little blob inside them is blue coloured on the ones on the right and is more clear coloured on the ones on the left. Don't know if that helps identify them?

My replacement battery light is coming on as the car is at accessories at the key, but I have not run the engine to see if the alternator will charge the battery. Should I just put the original bulb back in to be safe? I wasn't sure if a lower charge on the actual battery (after turning on the lights a bunch of times in the past few days) would make the bulb dim according to the charge?

29144

[DMC5180]

One question though... remind me what the difference is between a 161 bulb and a 194 bulb? I put new bulbs into the brake and high beams sockets even though I don't think they were actually burned out. I want to change out my battery bulb as it's not as bright as the brake one below and yet I can't see any markings on the bulbs well enough to tell which are which.

I had bought 6 bulbs over the years, two together and four earlier. In the photo here, the four original order bulbs are on the left, the ones I took out of the high beams and brake are in the middle, and the original battery bulb is on the right. You can see the little blob inside them is blue coloured on the ones on the right and is more clear coloured on the ones on the left. Don't know if that helps identify them?

My replacement battery light is coming on as the car is at accessories at the key, but I have not run the engine to see if the alternator will charge the battery. Should I just put the original bulb back in to be safe? I wasn't sure if a lower charge on the actual battery (after turning on the lights a bunch of times in the past few days) would make the bulb dim according to the charge?



The difference in the bulbs is wattage (brightness). The 194 is a higher watt rating than the 161. The 194 bulbs are intended for cluster illumination. The 161 bulbs are for the indicator illumination.

I know of several people that have converted too LED's however they are TOO BRIGHT for some locations in my opinion. The HIGH BEAM and DIP BEAM can be particularly annoying because of this. I don't recommend changing those from the stock 161 bulbs. also you must keep the 161 in the BATT location too.

No Lights should be lit with the key in ACC. Key ON (not running) should have OIL and BATT. Others will be ON if switches are closed (DOOR,BRAKE, LOW FUEL).

[Jonathan]

The difference in the bulbs is wattage (brightness). The 194 is a higher watt rating than the 161. The 194 bulbs are intended for cluster illumination. The 161 bulbs are for the indicator illumination.

I know of several people that have converted too LED's however they are TOO BRIGHT for some locations in my opinion. The HIGH BEAM and DIP BEAM can be particularly annoying because of this. I don't recommend changing those from the stock 161 bulbs. also you must keep the 161 in the BATT location too.

No Lights should be lit with the key in ACC. Key ON (not running) should have OIL and BATT. Others will be ON if switches are closed (DOOR,BRAKE, LOW FUEL).

Good explanation on the wattage, Dennis. Sort of like putting a 100W bulb in your living room light fixture instead of the 60W to brighten the room up.

The part about the BATT location needing to be kept at the 161 brightness/wattage, can you tell me why that is?

I know if you think of lights in terms of the living room fixture, many are rated for only a certain range of wattage. Your living room lights can often handle 60W as well as 100W but perhaps not 120W. They'll use more electricity too as a trade off for keeping the room brighter.

Is there any dire consequence with using a 161 bulb in the BATT socket? I was not able to see very well the markings on the bulbs but I may have inadvertently got it right anyway. When I have the BRAKE bulb on and the BATT one is too, the BRAKE one is noticeably brighter than the BATT one. By quite a bit honestly. That might be telling me I have the lower wattage bulb (161) in the BATT socket and the brighter one (191) in the BRAKE socket.

[NightFlyer]

Is there any dire consequence with using a 161 bulb in the BATT socket? I was not able to see very well the markings on the bulbs but I may have inadvertently got it right anyway. When I have the BRAKE bulb on and the BATT one is too, the BRAKE one is noticeably brighter than the BATT one. By quite a bit honestly. That might be telling me I have the lower wattage bulb (161) in the BATT socket and the brighter one (191) in the BRAKE socket.

The BATT light needs the correct bulb in the socket in order for the charging circuit to operate properly. Running the wrong intensity bulb in the Batt light socket has been known to cause charging problems on otherwise unaltered stock/OEM systems.

[DMC5180]

Is there any dire consequence with using a 161 bulb in the BATT socket? I was not able to see very well the markings on the bulbs but I may have inadvertently got it right anyway. When I have the BRAKE bulb on and the BATT one is too, the BRAKE one is noticeably brighter than the BATT one. By quite a bit honestly. That might be telling me I have the lower wattage bulb (161) in the BATT socket and the brighter one (191) in the BRAKE socket.


The charging circuit needs the bi-directional continuity of the incandescent bulb filament. (LED's are NOT Bi-directional). I don't believe bulb wattage is too important here. It just means IF you have a 194 (3.8w) in there instead of the 161 (2.7w), it will be brighter. The 161 is the stock bulb for the BATT and ALL other Indicator locations in the cluster. FWIW: a 168 bulb is (4.9w)

[Bitsyncmaster]

The alternator probably does not provide full voltage to the battery light to illuminate it. That is probably why you don't see the same intensity as other lights. You may not even get more light using a higher power bulb if the alternator regulator is current limiting when illuminating the light.

[NightFlyer]

All I know is that there have been reports of wonky behavior caused by running a 194 instead of a 161 in the battery light socket with certain alternators/voltage regulators. And yeah, you cannot use an LED in that socket without additional modifications to the circuit (which just aren't worth it IMHO).

Personally, I'd stick with running a 161 in the battery light socket, as there's no good reason to run anything else in there. But of course, the choice is yours.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3709-Battery-light-or-alternator&p=63840&viewfull=1#post63840


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRjsbtd6uP4