3 starts, 3 dies, then runs

[penciltester]

Yes a cold start question, unfortunately.

The car will start and immediately die 3 times. Then it will run and idle hunt for a minute or two.If I try to give it gas before it warms up it kills the car. Also smells rich. If I unplug the csv ,blue plug, it doesnt want to turn over. I can hear the fuel pump prime.

Once again any and all help will be appreciated.

Thanks

[NightFlyer]

Yes a cold start question, unfortunately.

The car will start and immediately die 3 times. Then it will run and idle hunt for a minute or two.If I try to give it gas before it warms up it kills the car. Also smells rich. If I unplug the csv ,blue plug, it doesnt want to turn over. I can hear the fuel pump prime.

Once again any and all help will be appreciated.

Thanks

So, what happens once the engine is warmed up to regular operating temperature?

Potentially sounds like a problem with the WUR/CPR (warm up regulator / control pressure regulator) or the CIS (constant idle speed) system. If I'm following you correctly, it sounds like the CSV is operating as it should, with no issues there.

The WUR/CPR is hard to trouble shoot without pressure gauges. Though if it's only causing a problem when cold, then this suggests an issue with its vacuum control system. You can pull the vacuum line there and confirm whether you're getting vacuum there immediately after starting from cold. In the current ambient temps though, it shouldn't be long before the three-port switch re-directs the vacuum to the electrical distributor's vacuum advance system though. If you're not getting vacuum there at all when cold, then you could have a defective three-port switch, which you can only access by pulling the intake. About the only thing maintenance wise that you can do with the CPR/WUR is remove the fuel lines and clean the port screens to make sure that they're not blocked. If you have or get CIS gauges, and the pressures don't check out, you can crack the unit open and attempt to rebuild/repair it yourself, but unless you know what you're doing, it's probably best to core the defective unit to one of the vendors and get a new/rebuilt one.

The heart of the CIS system is the ISM (idle speed motor). Its function is triggered by the idle micro-switch and is controlled by the idle speed ECU. As you don't mention having any issues once the vehicle is warmed up to regular operating temperature (around 182F), I'm hesitant to believe that anything in this system is causing your problem though.

Best luck :thumbup:

[David T]

How long has it been since the motor was tuned up? Worn ignition parts can also make it difficult to get the car started/warmed up. After that I agree the WUR, aka Control Pressure Regulator, could be the problem. Before going too deep make sure all of the vacuum hoses to it are hooked up correctly and are not leaking.

[dmc6960]

Rest pressure. When cold, jump the fuel pump to run manually. Let it run for over 30 seconds then try starting the car. If it starts and stays running then its a rest pressure issue.

[NightFlyer]

Rest pressure. When cold, jump the fuel pump to run manually. Let it run for over 30 seconds then try starting the car. If it starts and stays running then its a rest pressure issue.

Rest pressure causing a problem when cold suggests a faulty fuel pump check valve.

If you haven't done so already, you may want to consider adding an external inline check valve regardless of what fuel pump you're running. Doing so eliminates a potential failure point and makes trouble shooting fuel related issues much easier in the future IMHO.

I RARELY advise preventative modifications from stock/OEM, but this is one that I personally strongly advocate.

This is the check valve that I personally recommend (which DMCH started sending out with all new pump/sender combo unit kits shortly after I made my recommendation):

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=85394&catid=945

Post about installation of my valve (with pictures):

http://www.dmctoday.com/showthread.php?276-K-Jet-DMCH-Fuel-Pump-Sender-Combo-External-Inline-Check-Valves&p=3911&viewfull=1#post3911

[DMCMW Dave]

I recall one car we had in here with the same issue. It was the fuel pump, it appeared that it just took an extra second or two to get enough pressure up to start the car.

This was a long time ago with a relatively new Bosch-style pump. No idea if it was the check valve but it was something in the pump. It would only do this on the first start of the day.

I've seen cars come in completely missing the check valve (someone bought a new style pump to replace the long neck pump, so they removed the check valve so that the old style banjo bolt would work). I don't recall that causing a cold start issue, but it acted like the world's worst accumulator with respect to hot start problems.

[penciltester]

After it idles for a few minutes it's good to go. Runs like a champ, always smells rich though. Then I can shut it down and it starts up fine.

New spark plugs and wires have been installed. Did not fix the problem.

PO installed SpecialTAuto fuel pump before handing the care over to me. So I don't know if this is an issue with his pumps or not. Going to start checking all that has been suggested tomorrow, hopefully.

I also have a new accumulator laying around. Might install it.