Vibration and sloppy steering feel

[alexwolf1216]

OK, so I replaced the following parts:

Wheel hubs
Wheel bearings
cut rotors
upper and lower ujoints
steering column bushings
tires
tie rod ends

I charged up the AC and took the car for a little drive today. I felt some vibration at low speeds, but it was pretty minimal. Once I got it up on the highway, it felt sloppy. There was vibration in the steering, so bad that the drivers outside mirror was vibrating. I really dont know how else to describe it. I also heard something clunking around the rear, but it could have been my lower engine cover not latched down.

I did not have the car aligned yet after the new tie rod ends, so I know that needs to be done. From what I read on here, that wouldnt cause vibration though. Its pretty annoying, to the point where I am leery to take it on the highway. What else should I check? I dont think the suspension would cause vibration.

[ccurzio]

The alignment won't solve the vibration like you mentioned, but it will definitely make the steering feel more "correct." I replaced my tie rod ends not too long ago and the difference between driving it to the alignment place and driving away from it was like night and day.

Silly question, but did you make sure everything was tightened up properly?

[alexwolf1216]

You know, that was my first thought too because it almost felt like something was loose. I torqued everything down and it all looks right.

[NightFlyer]

Might be a stupid question/comment, but did you make sure that the wheels/tires were balanced? Also, what air pressures are you running in your tires?

[alexwolf1216]

The shop just installed them. Suppose I shouldn't take for granted that they did it right eh

[NightFlyer]

The shop just installed them. Suppose I shouldn't take for granted that they did it right eh

I never take anything for granted when it comes to other people's work. When I have tires mounted/dismounted/balanced, I watch the guys as they're doing the work.

Are wheel weights on the wheels anywhere (either lip weights (front or back) or stick-on weights on the inside of the wheel) and do they look new? If not, or if the weights look old, then they probably weren't balanced.

The Workshop Manual differentiates between "normal" and "high speed" driving, calling for the following tire pressures:

Normal Driving:
Front - 23 LB F/IN2
Rear - 30 LB F/IN2

High Speed Driving:
Front - 29 LB F/IN2
Rear - 34 LB F/IN2

I originally had my car running the factory spec tire pressures for high speed driving and found the ride to be overly stiff/harsh, especially on less than perfect road surfaces (as most tend to be here in the Midwest).

I'm currently running the following configuration, which I find to give a sports car like stiff feeling, without being overly stiff/harsh:
Front - 26 LB F/IN2
Rear - 32 LB F/IN2

[DMCMW Dave]

I'm seeing new problems with stick-on wheel weights. Lead in wheel weights has been banned, not sure if everywhere or just here but the problem is that now they are using steel weights.

Steel isn't as dense so it takes more of them.

Steel isn't as flexible as lead, so they tend not to conform to the inside of the wheel unless the installer knows what he's doing. So they fall off.

I'd go back and have them rebalanced, this time watch and make sure the tires are round as well. You'd be surprised how often cheap tires are oval.

Steel will eventually rust, which is going to make for some interesting looking wheels in a few years.

[David T]

I'm seeing new problems with stick-on wheel weights. Lead in wheel weights has been banned, not sure if everywhere or just here but the problem is that now they are using steel weights.

Steel isn't as dense so it takes more of them.

Steel isn't as flexible as lead, so they tend not to conform to the inside of the wheel unless the installer knows what he's doing. So they fall off.

I'd go back and have them rebalanced, this time watch and make sure the tires are round as well. You'd be surprised how often cheap tires are oval.

Steel will eventually rust, which is going to make for some interesting looking wheels in a few years.

They also want to take the lead out of ammo! If the tires are old or the car has been siting for a long time they could be flat-spotted too. If they are not too old they will eventually ride smoother but if they are over 7 years old they should be replaced. Tire pressure is very important, so important every owner should check it at least once a month.

[alexwolf1216]

Brand new Cooper tires

[NightFlyer]

Brand new Cooper tires

Cobras, CS4 Touring, or a mis-matched set?

[DMCMW Dave]

Brand new Cooper tires

Lift the car off the ground and spin them.

[Josh]

My car is like this due to a dud passenger front tire. The shop couldn't get it to balance properly so they tried their best and indicated so. issues with the toe can cause vibration as well. But make sure the tires are properly balanced and not out-of round as others mentioned

[NightFlyer]

I'm seeing new problems with stick-on wheel weights. Lead in wheel weights has been banned, not sure if everywhere or just here but the problem is that now they are using steel weights.

Steel isn't as dense so it takes more of them.

Steel isn't as flexible as lead, so they tend not to conform to the inside of the wheel unless the installer knows what he's doing. So they fall off.

I'd go back and have them rebalanced, this time watch and make sure the tires are round as well. You'd be surprised how often cheap tires are oval.

Steel will eventually rust, which is going to make for some interesting looking wheels in a few years.

That SUCKS - thank big daddy government for banning the lead ones.

Lucky the place that I go to still has a large assortment of lead weights available.

[NightFlyer]

My car is like this due to a dud passenger front tire. The shop couldn't get it to balance properly so they tried their best and indicated so. issues with the toe can cause vibration as well. But make sure the tires are properly balanced and not out-of round as others mentioned

Wheels might not be true for whatever reason. If that's that case, then you'll never get a round mounted tire. Have to have them trued or get replacement ones.

[penciltester]

When we first drove my car down the road we had some odd steering and loud thudding noise from the drivers side rear wheel. Long story short, the previous owner had the lug nuts on finger tight all around. Hopefully it's something as simple as that.

[NightFlyer]

I've never used an impact gun on my D's lugs, and never will. Always tighten them by hand with a socket wrench :thumbup:

[Josh]

Wheels might not be true for whatever reason. If that's that case, then you'll never get a round mounted tire. Have to have them trued or get replacement ones.

im hoping not! However these tires are living on borrowed time so I wouldnt put it past them. Ill chase that issue down if my new tires dont balance properly.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Look at the tire for the bead line being even all around. The tire people should check that but who knows what they do now.

I had to buy lead stick on weights on Ebay. They all are using steel weights now. You would also want to clean the inside of the rim before you get the wheels balanced so the weights stick good to the wheels.

[alexwolf1216]

Cobras, CS4 Touring, or a mis-matched set?

CS4's

[alexwolf1216]

Lift the car off the ground and spin them.

I do realize that I need an alignment, so Ill prob just go back to the shop and have them put it up on the lift and I can get a good look then. I was hoping to get the suspension/springs installed before but I dont think the $$$ is in the cards just yet

[alexwolf1216]

Here at the shop getting it aligned and the balance checked on the tires. I sure would like a lift at home.....#liftenvy

[NightFlyer]

Here at the shop getting it aligned and the balance checked on the tires. I sure would like a lift at home.....#liftenvy

Say what?!?!?!

You should be watching the people doing the work on your car.

I'd never leave my car in the care of another where I'm not personally supervising everything that's happening on it, but that's your prerogative. I had friends that worked in shops/dealerships and I know what they used to do to the cars that they would work on, and it ain't pretty....

That's why my car has NEVER been to a shop and never will be (except to visit and say hi).

[alexwolf1216]

I'm still here watching and waiting patiently.

[alexwolf1216]

Well, got it aligned......they said the rear toe was off as was the front......They rebalanced the tires,....I got to take it on a longer drive and the vibration isnt what i thought it was. I feel absolutely everything on the road. It rides rough, and now it feels like its idling rough too.....

Im wondering if the shocks need to be done, and I hate to admit it but i think i would rather have a softer ride......is there a shock option out there that will make it a little softer?

[NightFlyer]

Many options available for the front. Rear gets a bit tricky with not many options available.

Some have reported great results with KYB's while others have referred to them as harsh junk. It's a very subjective issue.

I've only ever ran the stock/OEM Girlings so I'm unable to provide you with any insight on this.

BTW - What tire pressures are you running (as they make a HUGE difference as far as ride comfort/smoothness is concerned)?

[alexwolf1216]

I had them fill to your previous specs. 23/30 Its really tough to describe, but the ride is so harsh its not even enjoyable to drive at the moment :(

[DMCMW Dave]

I had them fill to your previous specs. 23/30 Its really tough to describe, but the ride is so harsh its not even enjoyable to drive at the moment :(

It's the OEM Girlings. Nightflyer's experience notwithstanding, most of the OE shocks are insanely stiff at this point. Occasionally we find a nicely stored cars where the OEM shocks are still compliant, but it's few and far between.

[alexwolf1216]

I read up on the Spaxx option that DPI has, but what shocks do you offer with the Eibach springs?

[NightFlyer]

It's the OEM Girlings. Nightflyer's experience notwithstanding, most of the OE shocks are insanely stiff at this point. Occasionally we find a nicely stored cars where the OEM shocks are still compliant, but it's few and far between.

When driving from DCS to DPI for their open house, Steve Rice commented that he couldn't believe how smooth my ride was despite having the stock/OEM Girling shocks and stock/OEM NCTs tires on the car :biggrin:

I think what helped the shocks the most was storing it on jack stands with the suspension left hanging, as opposed to being stored with the weight of the car on the suspension.

[NightFlyer]

I had them fill to your previous specs. 23/30

That's NOT my spec.

That's the Workshop Manual spec for what it refers to as 'normal driving'

My spec is as follows:

Front - 26 LB F/IN2
Rear - 32 LB F/IN2

23 in the front is too low for my comfort - I'd be worried about there not being enough pressure to keep the tire's bead sealed to the wheel in a hard braking situation.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10277-Vibration-and-sloppy-steering-feel&p=151303&viewfull=1#post151303

Sounds like you need some new shocks.

[alexwolf1216]

sorry, I meant specs you posted.

Teh shop will install all 4 sprongs/shocks for $350. Anything else I should do while i have them out

[NightFlyer]

sorry, I meant specs you posted.

Teh shop will install all 4 sprongs/shocks for $350. Anything else I should do while i have them out

No problem - it's all good in the neighborhood :wave2:

Nothing else that I can think of for any good reason - but then again, I'm an 'if it ain't broke, then don't fix it' kind of guy.

Perhaps others will have some advice pertaining to meaningful upgrades, modifications, or 'while you're in there' jobs - but those aren't really my forte :wink:

How's the A/C treating you?

[alexwolf1216]

It was 100 out today, and i was comfortable in the car. While stuck in traffic, it was warmer.....but cooled down as soon as I started moving

[NightFlyer]

It was 100 out today, and i was comfortable in the car. While stuck in traffic, it was warmer.....but cooled down as soon as I started moving

Nice!

[alexwolf1216]

I will enjoy it more when it drives better haha.......