Future bannings in the making

[DMCVegas]

OK, I'm going to say it, as I believe it needs to be said.

David is full of shit...


I knew he wouldn't answer the question, but rather find a way to dance around it.
:histerical1:

You know what? Why don't you just fuck right off and get your asses back over to DMCToday where you belong. All you tards ever do when you show up over here just troll people. That's it. You just lurk around and first chance you get you just jump on people. Teitelbaum has been around the DeLorean scene and the marque for a whole lot longer than any of you chucklefucks have. I can vouch that he's helped myself and others out over the past 18 years that's I've spoken with him more than you ever could hope to. In fact, you've absolutely done more damage to the community than you've ever helped it. Bitching, moaning, trolling, insulting the marque, and creating division between everyone.

Why are any of you still around here?

[DeLorean03]

The "DMC owners vs DMC owners" stuff is going to stop. Don't know why this has to keep happening.

While DMCVegas may not have had tact, he does have a point.

Guys, seriously, moderated status' and possible bans are going to come down if this does not stop. Please, stop disrespecting fellow owners. This is getting asinine, and it will be dealt with if members cannot treat each other with respect.

I am not here to make friends; I am here to keep the peace in this forum, and this got on our radar. STOP.

[NightFlyer]

While DMCVegas may not have had tact, he does have a point.

Excuse me???

Are you referring to the Prof, me, or both of us?

I didn't respond to Robert, nor was I going to because I actually do believe in keeping the peace around here, but quite frankly, I find the current insinuation somewhat insulting - especially if Jeremiah is joining in and concurring with Robert's tirade. Honestly, I thought that Jeremiah was better than this....

Before going nuclear, I'm going to give both Robert and Jeremiah a chance to prove the accusations that they have leveled against me.

Please show me where I've ever 'trolled' anyone here, making sure to include the full definition of the word as it applies to this forum, as I couldn't find it defined in any of the posted rules anywhere - I'd like links to specific posts that I've made please.

Please enlighten me as to how I've "damaged the community." In fact, I've helped a lot of members remedy problems with their cars, not to mention put together 8 new owners with their cars over the last 3 months. This month alone, I've walked at least three members through converting their A/C systems to use alternative refrigerants for a minimal parts expenditure. Lest anyone forget, I'm the one who found and posted about the SMC check valve for our fuel systems that was so good that DMCH started including it with all their shipped pump/sender combo units. I've sent members spare parts for their cars completely free of charge. Etc. And that's only a small sampling of what I've done for this community. If that's what you guys consider to be 'damage,' well then I guess we have a disagreement concerning a definition, though I do believe that it's you guys that aren't living in the consensus reality and perhaps should refer yourselves to Merriam-Webster before leveling such an unsupportable and ridiculous accusation such as this. So again, I await your proofs, and I'd like links to specific posts that I've made please.

"Bitching, moaning" - um yeah.... If anyone is guilty of this, it definitely isn't me. Perhaps the member that made such an accusation should try looking in the mirror if he wishes to see what a true instigator of such conduct looks like before he goes and starts pointing the finger. DMCVegas is infamous on both this forum, the DML, and other forums for his pages upon pages of irrelevant diatribes. And yet, I'm the one who's supposedly guilty of doing this??? ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE! Again, I'd like to see some proofs in the form of links to specific posts that I've made please....

"Insulting the marque" - REALLY?!?! Do you guys even read my posts??? I'm the freakin champion of concours/survivor level originality. I'm the only guy that drove his car 900 miles round trip to Dayton for DCS with the original NCTs, belts, plastic header bottle, coolant hoses, ect. If that's not demonstrating confidence and admiration for the marque, then I honestly don't know what is. Seriously, both of you guys need to pull your heads out of your respective asses before you go and accuse me of this. Again, I'd like links to post that I've made on this forum where I've "insulted the marque."

"Creating division between everyone" - And how exactly have I done this? Who exactly have I divided? Why would I do this? Yeah, I don't think so. I demand/promote respect amongst the membership, and that's all I've ever done since I became an 'active' member of the community. Oh, and BTW - I've owned my car for 12 years now, so I'm not some 'new comer' or 'outlander,' which is how I was treated by some people when I first started participating on this forum anyway. So again, I'd like specific examples of this please in the form of links to posts that I've made.

If I'm as bad as you guys have claimed me to be, then it should be easy for you guys to show me the definitive proofs that I'm asking for to support the rather serious accusations that you've leveled against me. If not, then I expect a public apology from both of you guys, because such accusations should have never have been blindly asserted against another member without supporting proofs/evidence. You guys talk about promoting respect and harmony, and yet make public accusations against me without any supporting proofs/evidence - that's just MIND BOGGLING. Do you realize how hypocritical you're appearing to the membership?

Vegas I can understand, but when an admin/mod of this site (and someone whom I previously had a lot of respect for in the community) concurs in such baseless and unsupported accusations such as the ones that were leveled against me here - well then, we have a real problem.

Thus, I'd like to see the proofs to support the claims that you've made against me please or I'd like an apology.

Me saying that David's estimate of the value of the OP's car was "full of shit" wasn't personal in anyway, nor do I believe that David took it as such, as we continued to converse with each other in a respectful and civil manner after-the-fact, as is evidenced in this very thread.

For the record, I've done nothing negative to Robert EVER, or anyone else here for that matter. Robert simply doesn't like me because I'm friends with Bill Robertson - and that's the truth of it whether he wants to admit to it or not. Whether Robert likes it or not, Bill, Steve, myself, Sam Hill, and all of us other "chucklefucks" are still members of this community too and should appropriately be respected as such on this forum if that's how this forum is going to work, but it most certainly hasn't applied such a principle to DMCVegas himself, has it?

Perhaps we should get Tamir involved on this one, as something just doesn't feel right to me - what's the deal with this and why was it resurrected nearly a week after Robert's comment that supposedly triggered it? It was already a dead issue. Honestly, what's going on here?

If this isn't dealt with in an equitable fashion, then perhaps I'll just leave the forum all together, as that's clearly what you guys seem to want anyway.

Good day to you both - I await seeing the proofs/evidence of the accusation leveled against me by you two or I'd like an apology. :smile:

BTW - Here's proofs/evidence of DMCVegas doing everything that he wrongfully accused me of doing (not to mention blatant rules violations that went unaddressed) as I'm not the kind of person who makes snipe unfounded/unsupported accusations against other members, unlike those who do and the admins/mods who support such individuals in such endeavors:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7678-I-got-banned-from-DMCToday!!&p=121961&viewfull=1#post121961
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7678-I-got-banned-from-DMCToday!!&p=122179&viewfull=1#post122179
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7678-I-got-banned-from-DMCToday!!&p=122991&viewfull=1#post122991
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7678-I-got-banned-from-DMCToday!!&p=123016&viewfull=1#post123016
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6373-300-NRA-Life-Membership&p=92206&viewfull=1#post92206 (politically charged content - I was banned for less)
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3055-Gullwing-doors-are-back-sort-of&p=104257&viewfull=1#post104257 (lots of "bitching and moaning" going on in that thread)

I could go on with other such examples if anyone needs them.

[DeLorean03]

If you're a problem, you were PM'd. If you didn't get a PM, you have not been designated a problem (at least by me).

I never specifically said "you, Nightflyer", so just dial it down a notch or two. Frankly put, I don't care for people who play the victim.

With that being said, you aren't getting an apology from me (I did get that far), and I am not reading your books. You can give me the cliff notes of your previous post if you like.

[David T]

If you're a problem, you were PM'd. If you didn't get a PM, you have not been designated a problem (at least by me).

I never specifically said "you, Nightflyer", so just dial it down a notch or two. Frankly put, I don't care for people who play the victim.

With that being said, you aren't getting an apology from me (I did get that far), and I am not reading your books. You can give me the cliff notes of your previous post if you like.

I think it's time for everyone to settle down and grow a thicker skin. The problem here was "Prof" Roy Hinlkly (sp) who was trying to bait me. Don't you just love it when someone chimes in, starts commotion and then disappears? They sit back and watch us fight among ourselves! Perhaps it is time to end this thread.

[DMCVegas]

Since you addressed me directly, I'll chime in on this one.


Robert simply doesn't like me because I'm friends with Bill Robertson


Far, far from it. Who you are friends with is your business and makes no never mind to me. Only on a schoolyard between boys and girls would such a childish accusation carry any weight. Bill is friends with other people who I am friends with, yet that hasn't impeded our friendships. So why would you assume that on such "merit" alone you would be singled out? The truth is your accusation has no truth. Your friendship with Bill has no bearing on why I don't get along with you; It's your actions. Why you and others choose to emulate Bill for the sport of starting arguments, I have no idea. But I don't hold him responsible for that. That's on you and everyone else who chooses to act out this way.

No, I do not get along with Bill, nor do I like him. My reasons and our history have been stated many times before. His attitude and actions seem to have manifested as some sort of folie Ã* plusieurs which has spread among his supporters which continue to bring this negativity, trolling, and self-victimization/martyring over to the Talk forums. Which it is very telling how you without hesitation nor direction called out your cohorts on this.

You don't want to be constructive in the least bit. You just wish to always assert yourself/yourselves as some sort of authority and will bully your way into do so. That's what I see. And no, I am not very tactful at times. I'm burned out on tact when it comes to dealing with you Today/Roberson people. For you all the argument is more important than the words themselves, so arguing is really all that you seem to actually respond to anymore. Which is really what you want.

[Kane]

If this isn't dealt with in an equitable fashion, then perhaps I'll just leave the forum all together, as that's clearly what you guys seem to want anyway.

Oh, please be serious about this. Good riddance.

[NightFlyer]

If you're a problem, you were PM'd. If you didn't get a PM, you have not been designated a problem (at least by me).

I never specifically said "you, Nightflyer", so just dial it down a notch or two. Frankly put, I don't care for people who play the victim.

With that being said, you aren't getting an apology from me (I did get that far), and I am not reading your books. You can give me the cliff notes of your previous post if you like.

Sorry - I was just upset that you appeared to agree with the unfounded/unsupported accusations that Robert logged against me. Respect, at least in my mind, is at least backing up your criticisms of others with proof/evidence if your going to assert them, otherwise, the accusations should never be made.

Even now, after having the chance to explain himself, Robert has been unable to support the accusations that he logged against me with any proof/evidence, other than to continue to call me names, wherein he just called me a "bully" in his last post.

Notice how I didn't call Robert any names in either of my posts directed at him - yeah, funny how that works, isn't it?

I get that he doesn't like me and that's fine - I won't be losing any sleep over it, trust me :wink:

What I don't get is what I ever did to him to command such vitriol and disrespect :confused:

He claims it's not because I'm friends with Bill, but then when he explains himself, all he can talk about is Bill. Personally, I think that Robert might have a personal obsession problem with Bill that he may want to seek out some professional help in dealing with, but I'm only suggesting that because I honestly want the guy to get better and purge himself of such unhealthy hostility.

Anyway, I'm done in this thread - peace out all :cool:

BTW - Just for the record, I'm cool with David and I hope that David is cool with me. I never intended anything personal against David and I believe that he knew that. :smile:

[NightFlyer]

Oh, please be serious about this. Good riddance.

But who would you send secret love PMs to if I left? :biggrin:

[OverlandMan]

Anyway, I'm done in this thread - peace out all :cool:


http://www.grayflannelsuit.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/kip-peace-out.jpg

[DMCVegas]

Even now, after having the chance to explain himself, Robert has been unable to support the accusations that he logged against me with any proof/evidence, other than to continue to call me names, wherein he just called me a "bully" in his last post.

Do I really have to write a massive thread-kill each and every single time where I have to reiterate everything again and again? Are you really that absent minded, or are you trying to simply goad me into a long response back simply so you can make fun of me? Because if that is indeed your goal, it's not going to happen. What I have written before is all right there, and I'm not taking your bait again. But if you're really intent, the answers are in the very threads which you cite.

Obviously I'm certainly not alone in my feelings as to what you all are doing to the community. It has been said in this thread as well as others.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10146-New-DeLorean-Owner-Advice&p=151526&viewfull=1#post151526
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7678-I-got-banned-from-DMCToday!!&p=122144&viewfull=1#post122144

And the list could go on. David T might not have taken offense with you, or perhaps he was simply taking the high road of ignoring you. I do not speak for him. I will however share my opinion about him as I did, and it remains the same that he's helped out tons of people over the years without ever engaging in this antics that you and your cohorts do. Both with the direct comments as well as the side ones trying to egg people on that you all insist upon engaging in.

I'm tired of this, and again, others are too. From DMCTalk to the DML it is painfully apparent. You all are so entrenched in the arguments for the sake of having an argument that you just don't see what's going on. And when you get ignored you escalate things so as to ensure a fight starts. You always want some sort of flaw to point out so you can feel that you're in the right and ultimately superior.

I'll tell you what though. I'll pull a page out of your Playbook of Martyrdom. You want equality, let's have it. I will accept a permanent ban if it means that all of you get to have one as well. That way the protection of the community is secured. No more putting people down, no more trolling, no more attacking the cars so as to insult other people in order to get a rise out of them so you can attack. None of it. We'll all go our separate ways, and the moderators will have a chance to start fresh. I'll sacrifice myself in order to protect other people from the likes of you and your gang.

[NightFlyer]

Do I really have to write a massive thread-kill each and every single time where I have to reiterate everything again and again? Are you really that absent minded, or are you trying to simply goad me into a long response back simply so you can make fun of me? Because if that is indeed your goal, it's not going to happen. What I have written before is all right there, and I'm not taking your bait again. But if you're really intent, the answers are in the very threads which you cite.

Obviously I'm certainly not alone in my feelings as to what you all are doing to the community. It has been said in this thread as well as others.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10146-New-DeLorean-Owner-Advice&p=151526&viewfull=1#post151526
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7678-I-got-banned-from-DMCToday!!&p=122144&viewfull=1#post122144

And the list could go on. David T might not have taken offense with you, or perhaps he was simply taking the high road of ignoring you. I do not speak for him. I will however share my opinion about him as I did, and it remains the same that he's helped out tons of people over the years without ever engaging in this antics that you and your cohorts do. Both with the direct comments as well as the side ones trying to egg people on that you all insist upon engaging in.

I'm tired of this, and again, others are too. From DMCTalk to the DML it is painfully apparent. You all are so entrenched in the arguments for the sake of having an argument that you just don't see what's going on. And when you get ignored you escalate things so as to ensure a fight starts. You always want some sort of flaw to point out so you can feel that you're in the right and ultimately superior.

I'll tell you what though. I'll pull a page out of your Playbook of Martyrdom. You want equality, let's have it. I will accept a permanent ban if it means that all of you get to have one as well. That way the protection of the community is secured. No more putting people down, no more trolling, no more attacking the cars so as to insult other people in order to get a rise out of them so you can attack. None of it. We'll all go our separate ways, and the moderators will have a chance to start fresh. I'll sacrifice myself in order to protect other people from the likes of you and your gang.

I'm only going to point out that once again, you neglected to actually prove any of the accusations that you previously lodged (hopefully auto-correct doesn't make it say 'logged' again) against me, and instead shifted the subject to others' posts about either not liking me (one person, with whom you appear to share a singular wit), or about the makeup of the membership of the two different forums. Both of those are completely irrelevant, nor do they prove/support any of the accusations that you've made against me.

If I was really as guilty of doing what you've asserted, then it should have been easy for you to cite at least one actual example, but you couldn't even do that. Thus, to anyone else following this, it's quite evident that your assertions are little more than pure fantasy/bullshit.

If you had any integrity at all, you'd just admit that you were wrong, pre-biased against me solely because of my associations in the community, and issue me the apology that I deserve from you for all of the name calling and baseless accusations that you've made in this thread.

Before you try to be a martyr (of what exactly, I honestly have no idea), you should make sure that you're at least righteous first. Just saying....

Note to admins/mods - instead of closing the thread (which really only acts to punish the innocent OP), might I suggest that you move the offending conversions into a new thread titled 'Robert doesn't like Josh' or something of the sort, and locking that one? Thanks :)

[Soundkillr]

Guys, against my better judgement, I have moved the thread. Keep it civil, try and hash it out. No one is innocent here. Read between the lines. Admins are getting complaints, people are getting fed up, and some are leaving. I am going to leave it at that. I will remind nightflyer and dmcvegas and anyone else who wants to throw blows...you guys are free to take it to pm if you wish. I'd love to see a group hug, and everyone singing around the camp fire.

[DMCVegas]

Really? You came out guns blazing calling David T's post "bullshit" and attacked his credibility. Then your other little buddy "RoyHinkley" showed up and started goading him too trying to get a response.

This is the whole cycle all of you guys go through each and every single time. Troll, bait, fight, paint yourselves as the victims, demand "proof" of your actions, and then deny to acknowledge it all and try to blame everyone else in the subsequent pity party. You all do this time and time again. You want proof? Read the threads from the very links that you posted. It's all there. Though it won't matter, because you won't. So what's the point?

[Kane]

Really? You came out guns blazing calling David T's post "bullshit" and attacked his credibility. Then your other little buddy "RoyHinkley" showed up and started goading him too trying to get a response.

This is the whole cycle all of you guys go through each and every single time. Troll, bait, fight, paint yourselves as the victims, demand "proof" of your actions, and then deny to acknowledge it all and try to blame everyone else in the subsequent pity party. You all do this time and time again.

I completely agree with this. You say David T is full of shit and then Roy Hinkley comes in to stir the pot trying to get a rise out of people. Someone calls you out on it, and then you get all defensive like you are completely innocent and never did anything to deserve the attacks. Then you get to write one of your insanely long responses where you act like you're Atticus Finch or something.

And to top it all off, you come here to start shit and then go back to Today to complain about how everyone here is hurting your feelings and being big meanie heads. Grow up, already.

[Rich_NYS]

I think it's time for everyone to settle down and grow a thicker skin.

+1

[NightFlyer]

Really? You came out guns blazing calling David T's post "bullshit" and attacked his credibility. Then your other little buddy "RoyHinkley" showed up and started goading him too trying to get a response.

This is the whole cycle all of you guys go through each and every single time. Troll, bait, fight, paint yourselves as the victims, demand "proof" of your actions, and then deny to acknowledge it all and try to blame everyone else in the subsequent pity party. You all do this time and time again. You want proof? Read the threads from the very links that you posted. It's all there. Though it won't matter, because you won't. So what's the point?

Quite LYING. This goes for Kane as well.

I NEVER called David T's post "bullshit." In fact, if you read my posts, you'll see where I agreed with him about a running car being worth significantly more than a non-running car. What I called "bullshit" was his extremely low estimation of the current value of the OP's car and somewhat in how he was reacting to the OPs post - which peaked my curiosity as to what he thought his own car was worth, just so that myself and others following the thread would know his frame of reference / basis of comparison.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10146-New-DeLorean-Owner-Advice&p=150446&viewfull=1#post150446

David T is not as righteous as you appear to think he is - he was very snide/rude/insulting/condescending towards some of the OP's comments, despite not knowing all the facts (the OP appears to be very proud of the condition in which he has kept his tires, as I would be as well):

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10146-New-DeLorean-Owner-Advice&p=150376&viewfull=1#post150376

And I fully stand by my assessment - his estimate was bullshit. I'm not backing down from that because 1) it's merely my opinion, which I'm entitled to have and freely make, just is David is free to voice his opinion, and 2) I fully backed up my position by citing to recent parts car sales from this very forum that netted not much less than what David claimed the OP's car was fairly worth. Personally, if I was the OP, I'd be insulted that David thought that such a well maintained car with a lot going for it would only be fairly worth slightly more than a parts car wreck. Apparently you do not, but then launch into tirades about me hurting the community - REALLY?!?!? OK, whatever you say....

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10146-New-DeLorean-Owner-Advice&p=150572&viewfull=1#post150572

Your big MISTAKE was in thinking that my opinion was in any way personal, either intended or inferred, which I can assure you that it most definitely WAS NOT, which is evidenced in how I carried on civil and respectful discourse with David after-the-fact.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10146-New-DeLorean-Owner-Advice&p=150575&viewfull=1#post150575

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10146-New-DeLorean-Owner-Advice&p=150612&viewfull=1#post150612

As you yourself have consistently repeated, it's all right there in the thread. Only difference is that there's actual proof/evidence to backup all my assertions, which I've provided for you. I'm still waiting for your proofs of everything that you've alleged against me or your apology.

As for the Prof - I have no idea who he is. How are you holding me accountable for what he does? If you'd like to know, I came down pretty hard on the Prof plenty of times in the past because of his conduct here, to the point where he didn't like me very much either.

http://www.dmctoday.com/showthread.php?610-Talk-Lurking-Today&p=10216&viewfull=1#post10216

That's just a snippet of that thread, but seeing as how you've asserted to knowing what's going on and holding me accountable for the Professor, I suggest that you read the whole thing, as you obviously DO NOT know as much as you think you do.

BTW - in the last 24 hours, I've responded to roughly 32 member inquiries on this forum (and even more via PM) alone. All you've done is engage in a picking fight with me. And yet, I'm the one who's toxic to the community?!?! Yeah....

One last time: Prove your accusations against me or issue me the apology that I rightfully deserve if you have any integrity at all.

Good evening to both you and Kane :)

[NightFlyer]

Guys, against my better judgement, I have moved the thread. Keep it civil, try and hash it out. No one is innocent here. Read between the lines. Admins are getting complaints, people are getting fed up, and some are leaving. I am going to leave it at that. I will remind nightflyer and dmcvegas and anyone else who wants to throw blows...you guys are free to take it to pm if you wish. I'd love to see a group hug, and everyone singing around the camp fire.

Please inform me as to what I did to violate the rules of the forum - and please do so publicly.

Robert (DMCVegas) made a lot of unfounded/unsupported accusations against me, which he has thus far been unable to prove despite having several opportunities to do so. In fact, he has called me several negative names. I have not called him a single negative name.

While I don't mind criticism, as everyone is entitled to their own opinions, Robert has made several objective charges against me, and no one is entitled to their own facts. The facts are the facts - they don't change. He said that I trolled - I asked for proof. He said that I spoke poorly of the marque - I asked for proof. He said that I'm damaging the community - I asked for proof.

He has been unable to provide any proof substantiating any of the ridiculous assertions against me, and yet refuses to apologize, instead choosing to continue to attack me and call me names, which BTW is against the forum rules.

There aren't two sides here - it's simply Robert picking a fight because he simply doesn't like me, but can't provide a valid reason for not liking me, other than that Kane doesn't like me either (which I didn't do anything to him either), which actually doesn't prove anything. These are their own personal issues to work out, and they should be dealing with it themselves instead of making blind unfounded/unsubstantiated attacks on people on the forum.

If I'm wrong - then by all means PLEASE PROVE OTHERWISE. But just don't make a decision without proving it and explaining your reasoning, as doing so would be very totalitarian/stasi.

Thank you.

[Soundkillr]

Did I call you out against a specific infraction publicly? I started the thread because you and Vegas are hashing it out. The fact is, we are getting complaints about how many threads are turned into a pissing match or an advertisement for a moderation free forum. Nightflyer, you need to calm down against the admins. If you didn't get a pm you have not been singled out. Again, I am giving you guys a boxing ring to call each other out. Nothing else (aside from banning or moderated status) has worked, so who knows, maybe this will? Perhaps you guys can meet in the middle? When I have a problem with you, you will be pm'd, as I would prefer the courtesy of working it out privately, as I feel that's a better solution and less cumbersome to forum members. In this case I felt the title was warning enough for those weak at heart to steer away.
Fwiw, I know you understand this, but just so we are clear, if mods receive complaints about members, we don't have to prove anything. We research it, and can base judgement on past posts, allegations against, or actions of said members. We do not have to re hash 3 years worth of data to prove a point. No one has time for that. We as mods/admins collectively make a decision. No one person does anything based on a rash decision.



Please inform me as to what I did to violate the rules of the forum - and please do so publicly.

Robert (DMCVegas) made a lot of unfounded/unsupported accusations against me, which he has thus far been unable to prove despite having several opportunities to do so. In fact, he has called me several negative names. I have not called him a single negative name.

While I don't mind criticism, as everyone is entitled to their own opinions, Robert has made several objective charges against me, and no one is entitled to their own facts. The facts are the facts - they don't change. He said that I trolled - I asked for proof. He said that I spoke poorly of the marque - I asked for proof. He said that I'm damaging the community - I asked for proof.

He has been unable to provide any proof substantiating any of the ridiculous assertions against me, and yet refuses to apologize, instead choosing to continue to attack me and call me names, which BTW is against the forum rules.

There aren't two sides here - it's simply Robert picking a fight because he simply doesn't like me, but can't provide a valid reason for not liking me, other than that Kane doesn't like me either (which I didn't do anything to him either), which actually doesn't prove anything. These are their own personal issues to work out, and they should be dealing with it themselves instead of making blind unfounded/unsubstantiated attacks on people on the forum.

If I'm wrong - then by all means PLEASE PROVE OTHERWISE. But just don't make a decision without proving it and explaining your reasoning, as doing so would be very totalitarian/stasi.

Thank you.

[TheDon]

And this is why I avoid the online community

[Spittybug]

Obviously not enough real problems in life to worry about. Kind of a microcosm for America today; focusing on Kim K. instead of real issues......................

[NightFlyer]

Did I call you out against a specific infraction publicly? I started the thread because you and Vegas are hashing it out. The fact is, we are getting complaints about how many threads are turned into a pissing match or an advertisement for a moderation free forum. Nightflyer, you need to calm down against the admins. If you didn't get a pm you have not been singled out. Again, I am giving you guys a boxing ring to call each other out. Nothing else (aside from banning or moderated status) has worked, so who knows, maybe this will? Perhaps you guys can meet in the middle? When I have a problem with you, you will be pm'd, as I would prefer the courtesy of working it out privately, as I feel that's a better solution and less cumbersome to forum members. In this case I felt the title was warning enough for those weak at heart to steer away.
Fwiw, I know you understand this, but just so we are clear, if mods receive complaints about members, we don't have to prove anything. We research it, and can base judgement on past posts, allegations against, or actions of said members. We do not have to re hash 3 years worth of data to prove a point. No one has time for that. We as mods/admins collectively make a decision. No one person does anything based on a rash decision.

Fair enough :)

[NightFlyer]

Obviously not enough real problems in life to worry about. Kind of a microcosm for America today; focusing on Kim K. instead of real issues......................

Apparently not for you either, considering that you took the time to read it and then the effort to formulate, type out, and post a response to it.

Just sayin.... :wink:

[Soundkillr]

:thumbup:
Fair enough :)

[NightFlyer]

BTW - The FACT that Robert (DMCVegas) continues to associate me with Professor Roy Hinkley's comments just goes to definitively prove positive my original assertion that Robert doesn't like me simply because of the people that I chose to associate with and call my friends within the community.

Thanks for proving my point Vegas :biggrin:

Now then, are you going to man up and apologize or stand by the vitriol that you've leveled against me and continue to belittle me and call me names for no actual real/valid reason what-so-ever..... :what_the:

@Kane - if you have something against me, why don't you say it big man? Apparently that's what this thread is here for....

[Soundkillr]

One more request, guys please keep your problems in THIS thread, do not bring out your issues in other threads, or even reference an argument from this thread in other threads. Try and solve your issues here! Thanks! We may have to lock this eventually but for now, try and resolve it.

[Kane]

OK, I'm going to say it, as I believe it needs to be said.

Nightflyer is full of shit

[NightFlyer]

One more request, guys please keep your problems in THIS thread, do not bring out your issues in other threads, or even reference an argument from this thread in other threads. Try and solve your issues here! Thanks! We may have to lock this eventually but for now, try and resolve it.

Sounds good, but as no one is forced to read the thread, not sure why it would need to be locked???

[NightFlyer]

OK, I'm going to say it, as I believe it needs to be said.

Nightflyer is full of shit

And why am I full of shit? Care to elaborate, or do you just make unfounded/unsupported snipe attacks on other owners/members?

Come on big man....

[NightFlyer]

OK, I'm going to say it, as I believe it needs to be said.

Nightflyer is full of shit

If this is about something I've asserted above, then please elaborate so that we can fully discuss it for the benefit of those who follow this thread.

But if it's merely a personal vendetta against me, then please respect the admins/mods and keep it in the other thread.

Thanks twinkle toes :wink:

[Soundkillr]

Sounds good, but as no one is forced to read the thread, not sure why it would need to be locked???

Again, the thread lock may not be entirely up to me. I may be out voted.

[NightFlyer]

Again, the thread lock may not be entirely up to me. I may be out voted.

Gotcha - understood.

[Kane]

And why am I full of shit? Care to elaborate, or do you just make unfounded/unsupported snipe attacks on other owners/members?

Come on big man....

That's a verbatim quote of what you said to David T which spawned this whole thread. Now you are saying it is a snipe attack? Funny how that works when the same words are directed at you.

[DMCVegas]

I am not lying, nor are any of the other people who have disagreed with you and your behavior.

Your simple associations with other people are not why we don't get along. Your actions which mimic those of these other people are what I despise.

I have already spoke of my position, and likewise referenced the link YOU provided. Your refusal to acknowledge is not my problem.

Along these lines, you cannot simply nit-pick to remove/ignore or outright twist or crawfish out what doesn't suit you. You were only referring to David T's estimate as "bullshit"? Come now. That reflects directly upon the man as a whole and challenges his integrity as well as knowledge, and you know it. Which BTW, nice job with the name calling and accusations against him.

Again you just goaded Spittybug & Kane and started name calling with the latter right there. What better example, let alone a real-time one of your actions do you need?

And yes, you are indeed hurting the community here. What more proof do you need than the posts here and even one that you yourself have replied to in this very thread?

Simply stating your "opinion" does not give you carte blanche to undertake any of these actions of trolling, goading, nor name calling that you freely choose to engage in.

As for apologies? You will not be receiving any from me as you do not deserve one. I stick by my statements, and likewise will contain everything in this thread. Along those lines too, I'm not going to whiteknight any more. I'll let the mods take over and enact whatever actions they see fit.

[NightFlyer]

That's a verbatim quote of what you said to David T which spawned this whole thread. Now you are saying it is a snipe attack? Funny how that works when the same words are directed at you.

So, you just completely ignored the context of the remainder of my post, wherein I fully stated and supported why I thought David's estimate was full of shit.

That's a whole lot different than just saying that someone is full of shit and leaving it at that without explaining yourself or backing up your assertion, isn't it?

BTW - Here's the remainder of what I said in that post, as you obviously neglected to read it:


that number is WAY too low IMHO. We just had a member sell a half disassembled rolling project car for $9.5k and David thinks this car is only worth slightly more than that one was?!?!? Yeah....

If you know what you're doing and are capable of doing so without making things worse, then I'd put a little time and money into the car to get everything working. This doesn't mean replacing things that are old merely because they're old - but rather only rebuilding/replacing things that have suffered an actual failure.

Follow my flush and refill procedure for doing the coolant fluid change - that should get the coolant system all set for another 6-8 years.

http://dmctoday.com/showthread.php?6...Avoid-Bleeding

If the brakes were working well when last driven, then I'd merely flush new DOT 4 hydraulic fluid through the system. Check the pads for even wear and amount of meat left - if they're even with 50% or more meat left on each pad, then I'd leave them. If not, then put new pads on all around and check/rebuild any calipers that aren't resulting in uneven pad wear.

If the car is shifting fine, I'd leave the ATF alone for now based on the mileage. At 20k though, it'd be good to change out the final drive / transaxle oil - use regular 80W90 gear oil, as nothing fancy is required. I personally use Lucas 80W90 gear oil.

As you stated that you were driving it last fall, I don't anticipate the fuel system to be a total disaster as David does. Remove the access panel to the fuel tank in the luggage compartment spare tire well, and pull the sending unit. You can drain it from there and use a mirror to inspect the condition of the pump components. If you see debris, floating chunks, or sparkling on the bottom of the tank through the gas, then you'll want to pull the pump, clean the tank thoroughly, and reassemble with new rubber at a minimum. If everything looks good though, then refill with some good ethanol free gas mixed with a bottle of SeaFoam. If you've never changed the fuel filter or don't know when it was last done, then do it - they're cheap. After that, it's a matter of diagnosing K-Jet and only fixing/replacing/rebuilding that which actually needs it. We'll help when you get that far

Once she's running reliably, if everything is functional, and if nothing is leaking, then after you give the car a good clean up / detailing, I think it's very possible that you could turn $30k+ for the car at one of the national auctions, should you decide to go that route.

Anyway, best luck

And as I previously stated, I fully stand by all of it.

So again, Kane, how am I full of shit, or do you just enjoy engaging in snipe attacks on other owners/members?

[NightFlyer]

I am not lying, nor are any of the other people who have disagreed with you and your behavior.

Your simple associations with other people are not why we don't get along. Your actions which mimic those of these other people are what I despise.

I have already spoke of my position, and likewise referenced the link YOU provided. Your refusal to acknowledge is not my problem.

Along these lines, you cannot simply nit-pick to remove/ignore or outright twist or crawfish out what doesn't suit you. You were only referring to David T's estimate as "bullshit"? Come now. That reflects directly upon the man as a whole and challenges his integrity as well as knowledge, and you know it. Which BTW, nice job with the name calling and accusations against him.

Again you just goaded Spittybug & Kane and started name calling with the latter right there. What better example, let alone a real-time one of your actions do you need?

And yes, you are indeed hurting the community here. What more proof do you need than the posts here and even one that you yourself have replied to in this very thread?

Simply stating your "opinion" does not give you carte blanche to undertake any of these actions of trolling, goading, nor name calling that you freely choose to engage in.

As for apologies? You will not be receiving any from me as you do not deserve one. I stick by my statements, and likewise will contain everything in this thread. Along those lines too, I'm not going to whiteknight any more. I'll let the mods take over and enact whatever actions they see fit.

WOW

It's like you're living in a whole other universe my man.

Where did I call David T or anyone else names in this thread? Links please or your apology.

His estimate was bullshit - I stated my reasons why. What you haven't stated is why my assertion about his estimate as being bullshit is wrong, have you? No, instead you choose to personally attack me and call me names. Real mature mister....

I didn't goad Spittybug or Kane.

Spittybug made a very ironic hypocritical post and I called him out on it, which wasn't personal at all (either intended or implied). You saw where the admin/mod said that they named the thread accordingly to discourage others from participating, thus Spittybug had full knowledge/warning about the ramifications involved in posting in this thread. And why are you making a deal out of it? Spittybug is a big boy and fully capable of speaking for himself. Stop trying to police / moderate the forum according to your own standards and show respect to others by treating them like adults instead of calling them names and directing vitriol as you do (which is actually expressly against the forum rules BTW).

As to Kane, he said that I was full of shit without giving any references as to what I'm allegedly full of shit about. Thus, without a point of contention, it appears that he's doing so just to be unsocial. Not to mention that such is also expressly against the forum's rules on decorum. And again, why are you worried about how I interact with Kane? It's not your place to decide such things on this forum unless you're paying the bill for it my man. If you don't like what I'm doing, report it to the admins/mods and let them do their jobs. If you don't like the responses that you get from them though, that's something that you'll have to reconcile with yourself and there's not much more that I can say about that.

If you won't apologize for making unfounded/unsupported accusations and for calling me names, then you've just proven that you have no honor/integrity/class.

[DMCVegas]

Where did I call David T or anyone else names in this thread? Links please or your apology.

So you didn't write any this?


And why am I full of shit? Care to elaborate, or do you just make unfounded/unsupported snipe attacks on other owners/members?

Come on big man....


If this is about something I've asserted above, then please elaborate so that we can fully discuss it for the benefit of those who follow this thread.

But if it's merely a personal vendetta against me, then please respect the admins/mods and keep it in the other thread.

Thanks twinkle toes :wink:

As for everything else, again, already covered and demonstrated by your actions so I'm not rehashing as there is no need. You're backed into a corner and just can't stand it. So again here come the denials. Let me guess, you'll now state how the quotes were taken out of context, right?

[Rich_NYS]

Can I say something objective, or is this thread only for the guys involved?

[NightFlyer]

Can I say something objective, or is this thread only for the guys involved?

Absolutely, you can say whatever you like, so long as it doesn't violate any forum rules - the two biggies being no politics and no religion.

[NightFlyer]

So you didn't write any this?





As for everything else, again, already covered and demonstrated by your actions so I'm not rehashing as there is no need. You're backed into a corner and just can't stand it. So again here come the denials. Let me guess, you'll now state how the quotes were taken out of context, right?

Again, where did I call David T any names, as you specifically alleged I did? Either prove it or apologize for the outright lying/false accusations.


Which BTW, nice job with the name calling and accusations against him.


I stick by my statements,

So, still going to stick by that one? If so, proof, or apology, or you prove you have no class and make-up lies about others and then attack them with your lies (which BTW, is against the express forum rules of conduct/decorum).

Neither 'big man' or 'twinkle toes' were directed at David T, and how do you qualify those as derogatory names exactly? They were attempts at injecting some light-hearted playfulness, as indicated by the emoticon after-the-fact.

Apparently, that's lost on you though, even though you like to use witty memes and the like all the time...

Compare to "tards," "troll," "lurk[er]," "chucklefucks," "bitching," "moaning," etc....



And no - you still haven't covered anything with any proof.

[Rich_NYS]

Absolutely, you can say whatever you like, so long as it doesn't violate any forum rules - the two biggies being no politics and no religion.

David T seems like a nice guy, and is very helpful. Josh is a nice guy, and is also very helpful. I'm a new owner; they both have helped me with info since I've been here, and I expect they'll both help me again sometime in the future. Full disclosure: Josh helped me before, during & after my car purchase and we've become friends (doesn't influence my opinion....I'm an independent thinker.)

It seems like the catalyst for this issue was Josh saying David was full of shit. I read Robert's take on that, but I still don't think it should be a problem to say someone here is full of shit on a forum full of dudes.

IMO, it's fairly normal for guys to tell each other they're full of shit. It also appears that David was completely unfazed by it, so maybe he feels the same.

So....two good guys and one said the other is full of shit. Seems like no biggie to me; guys calling each other "full of shit" is what I call normal, but let me know if I'm the one who's full of shit (or not.)

[NightFlyer]

What makes this whole thing completely ridiculous is that the "full of shit" remark was expressly limited to David's estimate of the value of the OP's car - that's it. It wasn't against David in general as Robert/Kane appear to believe it was. If they thought that, then they obviously stopped reading at the end of "shit," and went no further, or they both have severe reading comprehension problems, or they were just never taught the rules of sentence/paragraph construction in their elementary English classes (either that or they completely neglect to follow them) - actually, they both apparently have a problem with that third one, as they believe that context isn't important at all, when nothing could be further from the truth.

I actually agreed to some of what David said and he and I continued on in a civil and respectful manner - it's all there in the thread.

It was only when Robert decided to white-knight it based on false accusations and his own personal dislike of me (which I still don't understand if what he says is true, but I think it's pretty apparent that it's because I'm friends with the Today crowd and was a founding member over there), and then failed to support any of his assertions against me, that it became a problem.

Now Robert is misinterpreting light-hearted playfulness as being hostile aggressions, despite the fact that he commonly uses light-hearted/playful memes when engaging with other members, thus I find it quite hard to believe that he really couldn't tell the difference.

No, instead, he chooses to make up even more lies about me and says that he's sticking to his guns.

I NEVER called David T any names on this forum - Robert is a LIAR.

For someone who accuses me of creating discontent in the community, you'd think that he might stop and look in the mirror at what he's been doing ever since he started this whole thing....

As I actually do have honor/integrity/character, if Kane was at all offended by the names 'big man' and 'twinkle toes,' well then, I formally apologize to him for such. It was my error for not realizing that he's as sensitive as Robert appears to believe he is. I've interacted with him before in such a light-hearted/playful manner, and he never appeared to care, knew how I was intending it, or just wasn't offended because such names really aren't derogatory. But again, I'm genuinely sorry for calling Kane such names and extend a hand of friendship to him, should he choose to accept it.

[NightFlyer]

Full disclosure: Josh helped me before, during & after my car purchase and we've become friends (doesn't influence my opinion....I'm an independent thinker.)

I would definitely hope and expect you to be independent :)

If I'm wrong or full of shit, I want my friends to call me out on it. I have no ego to bruise and will always gladly fully admit when/if I'm wrong. I've been wrong plenty in my life and I've always fully admitted to such when proven so.

BTW - Car's looking FANTASTIC Rich :thumbup:

[NightFlyer]

tards

BTW - Ever stop to think that our autistic members might take offense to the use of that name in the derogatory fashion in which you intended and used it?

Real classy my man....

[Kane]

BTW - Ever stop to think that our autistic members might take offense to the use of that name in the derogatory fashion in which you intended and used it?

Real classy my man....

Who's white knighting now?

[NightFlyer]

Who's white knighting now?

I admit it.

I usually only do it when I see an egregious offense though, that most everyone should be able to agree with (if they're being honest with themselves), and even then I didn't try to impose my will on him by asking him to change his conduct or go away, as he did with me, did I? NO - instead, I simply pointed it out and made a judgment call about it not being very classy and in poor taste (the part where I said "real classy my man" was not meant to be taken literally).

I thought that this was one of those appropriate situations.

[Kane]

I admit it.

I usually only do it when I see an egregious offense though, that most everyone should be able to agree with (if they're being honest with themselves), and even then I didn't try to impose my will on him by asking him to change his conduct or go away, as he did with me, did I? NO - instead, I simply pointed it out and made a judgment call about it not being very classy and in poor taste (the part where I said "real classy my man" was not meant to be taken literally).

I thought that this was one of those appropriate situations.

I love how you are so arrogant and condescending to anyone who disagrees with you. As if the only reason anyone would disagree with you is if "they...have severe reading comprehension problems, or they were just never taught the rules of sentence/paragraph construction in their elementary English classes (either that or they completely neglect to follow them) - actually, they both apparently have a problem with that third one, as they believe that context isn't important at all, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Yes, that must be why someone is disagreeing with the all knowing NightFlyer. They must be uneducated because any true scholar would of course think NightFlyer has done nothing wrong. It's so obvious, of course.

(the part where I said "I love" it was not meant to be taken literally)

[Jonathan]

Full on tangent coming here... but oh well...

On the subject of spelling and correcting people's grammar...

Why is it that the more knowledgeable someone seems to be here on DeLorean related topics, the more people want to pick out spelling or grammar mistakes?

And I say that not being some governing body deciding who it is that knows a lot about DeLoreans, but there is no consistency. There are some down right awful spellers on here and the grammar is just as bad, but so rarely do they get called out or corrected in the same order of magnitude that a few others do.

Add to that, many of the folks on here who are quite knowledgeable and are respected for one reason or another, seem to make their fair share of spelling or grammar mistakes yet are not crucified for doing so.

So what gives?

I'll tell you what I think.

Grammar and spelling are about the least important things that are ever going to be discussed here.

When someone needs to correct another for some stupid, irrelevant mistake, I think it is more about that person themselves having issues either with their own self esteem or they have some bone to pick with that particular poor grammar student for one reason or another.

We often have some good discussions on technical topics that get all sideways because the only thing some spelling-Nazi-troll can dream up as a suitable counter argument is to point out he missed an apostrophe or didn't realize his phone's auto-correct messed up a word.

Do you know how very little people like to be corrected or criticized? Just about zero. Just let it go. If the mistake is so troublesome for you because it completely changes the meaning of the message, than yea, go ahead and ask about it. But do so with some tact. And if you are really just pissed at someone and are using spelling corrections to get back at them, please grow a set and have the courage to tell them what it really is that irked you. None of us on here or anywhere else are ever expected to get along all buddy buddy with every other person you'll ever meet. So none of us care if you don't like someone. Just have the decency to stop camouflaging it as spelling corrections.

None of us look like anything other than an ass when all you've added to the conversation is some pro-tip advice on when to use your and you're. We get it. You're your local high school's essay writing champ. Terrific. I'm very proud of you. Now take this opportunity to be humble about it and keep your grammar rules observations to yourself. We'll all be better for it.

I will say out of anyone I have ever met in person from the forum, not one guy has been anything other than easy to get along with. Quite true for Josh, Rich, Steve, Bill, Chris Burns and many others. The forum stuff can make things unnecessarily awkward when you do get to meet and that's no fun for anyone. We all have some bad days and plenty of those show up in posts here unfortunately. Keep in mind all of us go through some rough stretches in life that you don't see coming. I can think of a few for some of the guys here right now. Those things will pass and hopefully so too will any angst towards each other if you caught one another on a bad day. I know I'm glad to see it works out that way.

Now, big group hug and go get yourself a giant sloppy ice cream cone :)

[valdez]

:boxface::fu:

Is that all you guys got?
Surely this can be taken to a whole nother level of stupidity!

:popcorn:

I find this amusing because of how ridiculous it is.

[DMCVegas]

:boxface::fu:

Is that all you guys got?
Surely this can be taken to a whole nother level of stupidity!

:popcorn:

I find this amusing because of how ridiculous it is.

Ridiculous? You have no idea. This all started over an empty tuna fish can about 11-12 years ago. Yes, you read that right.

Reader's Digest condensed version:
Living in the desert I had a problem with a buzzing fuel pump due to a collapsing fuel inlet hose. After speaking with David T. who gave me a great idea about a reinforcement spring that worked pretty well for a while, I created a how-to guide on DMCNews.com where I gave David T. equal credit for having the initial idea. Later on one of the ideas that started being kicked around the community was a way to remove the hose entirely and have the pickup filter sit right on the end of the pump. Bill Robertson emailed me and stated that he had used the idea of a large, empty tuna can. Clean the can, remove the label, and drill holes around the bottom edge like the stock baffle. The can could fit inside of the tank, and the pump would hold the entire assembly in place. A fine idea indeed which I thanked Bill for, and told him that I would be drafting up the installation instructions for the fix, which just like the previous write-up I would ensure he would get full credit for the original idea. It was at this time that Bill started to flip out and became a different person. He demanded that I NOT post the write-up at all. Which I wanted to know why? He would not say. About this time John Hervey contacted me separately and after seeing the separate conversation online and was working on his own variation of the baffle for which he sent me out a prototype unit to test in my car. Given the hassle of the sudden personality clash, I merely cut-off conversing with Bill and spoke with John for his solution. It went from copper wires soldered onto the bottom (I have the original somewhere in storage) to the final design that he sells to this day that use the metal straps across the bottom. Hervey's unit was bigger and could hold more fuel so it caught my attention more. At this time Bill's sudden change in attitude left me with a bad impression, but things got worse years later.

As a way to try and get my car back on the road, I was interested in a carb conversion. So again I spoke with Bill, only this time here on DMCTalk trying to start fresh. Everything was going ok until it got to the point where I wanted to know the specifics for a carb conversion, and documentation on how to perform the conversion as well as how to tune the carb. I had two very good reasons for this. The first being that if there is a specific procedure for performing a conversion of this sort, it can easily be done by a user, but more importantly can be accepted by the community as a sort of "Standard procedure" where it can maintain values. The second big thing was that I don't have experience with carbs. I grew up around fuel injection and actually cut my teeth on K-Jetronic of all things. I understand how to tune & troubleshoot CIS & EFI, but carbs are a different story. Certainly I know *how* they function, but I've only ever owned a single car that had one, and never worked on the carb before I sold it. I am a big stickler for documentation when it comes to cars. I don't like the idea of needing to rely upon other people/mechanics and want to be independent. This also continued on to question Bill on alternative sources for manifolds and carburetors, and the blunt saying that this information should be out in the open for anyone to utilize.

Needless to say, Bill did not like this. He reverted back into the same person years before, only worse. He berated me for not being smart enough to know how to tune a carburetor, let alone install one and perform the entire conversion. Around this time as well Bill started in with some massive attacks against other members when he started making accusations against other people for supporting K-Jetronic when they dared to challenge him on his inaccurate statements about it. And it was the same M.O. from years ago where there would just be one strawman argument after another when you'd get him cornered on one point, and he'd change the subject entirely to avoid accountability. Then finally he changes things into personal attacks starting with people's pride in their cars and then against their intelligence. In the end when it's all said and done, Bill will ultimately revert to his persecution complex about how he helps soooooo many people and yet is soooooo unappreciated for his selflessness. Something that you, Josh, and starting to emulate to a "T".

Now I don't post to DMCToday as I am not a member, and choose not to be. But damn. If you google my name over there you can see where absolutely out of nowhere Bill will name drop and stir up some anger against me. I'm not alone in this either. Even David T. is on Bill's little list of people he despises, as are others. The goal though is always the same with Bill getting people to come over start up fights here on DMCTalk. They do it in groups, as demonstrated by this thread. Get two or more people to goad, then put out the flimsy excuse they have nothing to do with each other. Even though this keeps happening over and over again. When it does happen in a big enough blow-up like this one, there's usually even a thread over there with people egging each other on, laughing about the whole thing at the expense of others.

People are not always going to agree online. I get this, and understand it. When I started trying to source the specs for the Legend Twin Turbo engine for the passage sizes for the vacuum lines that run the Bias Boost control, I was denied the information. I wasn't happy about it, but it wasn't the first time I'd hit a brick wall. But as normal there were not lingering hard-feelings nor ongoing trolling. Most important of all though is the marque. The first iteration of the DeLorean community was maintained by the DOA, and the second iteration of it when it went online started on USENET and evolved here to these very message boards. All the while the goal was to spread as much information as possible, and keep it publicly accessible. Not all people are online, and many of the ones that are do not like this kind of conflict and will lurk more often than not. That's fine. Keep the information available for them too. I don't want to have numerous PMs with people to help them. I would rather post something in a thread or a collection of information where people can go to access it if they wish. When I offer up help, I do it as a way to pay back those who have helped me in order to foster a community of communication and friendliness. I don't do it in order to gain favoritism and debts such as Bill and others do.

As such when I help, that extends both to defending someone who I know is in fact quite knowledgeable when they and their reputation is attacked (when you attack someone's knowledge it extends to that person, and "snide" is also indeed a noun and a derogatory name), as well as when you pass out outright dangerous information to people. The danger of old tires is very well known and documented. And yes, when this keeps on happening that others are complaining, this is indeed damaging the community and the marque as a whole.

Now, if everyone wants to start over, and if something is disagreed upon, keep it in a friendly manner. I have no problems with this. There are absolutely certain people who do, which is why we keep ending up in these situations. As I've already said, if there is a problem from now on, I'm going to let the moderators have at it. Is this not something that can be agreed upon?

[Ryan]

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140418001414/walkingdead/images/2/26/DidntRead.gif



I just like to post gifs

[Michael]

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140418001414/walkingdead/images/2/26/DidntRead.gif



I just like to post gifs

Really? I thought the talk boys were somehow forced to read every thread here...hence all the whining and complaining about political and religious nature conversations. You mean to tell me that you chose not to read this? Imagine that, talk members choosing not to read a thread that doesn't interest them.

[Kane]

Really? I thought the talk boys were somehow forced to read every thread here...hence all the whining and complaining about political and religious nature conversations. You mean to tell me that you chose not to read this? Imagine that, talk members choosing not to read a thread that doesn't interest them.

OK, I'm going to say it, as I believe it needs to be said.


Michael is full of shit...

[Ron]

Really? I thought the talk boys were somehow forced to read every thread here...hence all the whining and complaining about political and religious nature conversations. You mean to tell me that you chose not to read this? Imagine that, talk members choosing not to read a thread that doesn't interest them.
NSFW


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbfzahtZsN8&authuser=0

[NightFlyer]

OK, I'm going to say it, as I believe it needs to be said.


Michael is full of shit...

Once again, you're snipe attacking other members I see.

And yet, somehow, I'm allegedly the bad guy here.... :confused: :dunno: :umm:

[NightFlyer]

Ridiculous? You have no idea. This all started over an empty tuna fish can about 11-12 years ago. Yes, you read that right.

Reader's Digest condensed version:
Living in the desert I had a problem with a buzzing fuel pump due to a collapsing fuel inlet hose. After speaking with David T. who gave me a great idea about a reinforcement spring that worked pretty well for a while, I created a how-to guide on DMCNews.com where I gave David T. equal credit for having the initial idea. Later on one of the ideas that started being kicked around the community was a way to remove the hose entirely and have the pickup filter sit right on the end of the pump. Bill Robertson emailed me and stated that he had used the idea of a large, empty tuna can. Clean the can, remove the label, and drill holes around the bottom edge like the stock baffle. The can could fit inside of the tank, and the pump would hold the entire assembly in place. A fine idea indeed which I thanked Bill for, and told him that I would be drafting up the installation instructions for the fix, which just like the previous write-up I would ensure he would get full credit for the original idea. It was at this time that Bill started to flip out and became a different person. He demanded that I NOT post the write-up at all. Which I wanted to know why? He would not say. About this time John Hervey contacted me separately and after seeing the separate conversation online and was working on his own variation of the baffle for which he sent me out a prototype unit to test in my car. Given the hassle of the sudden personality clash, I merely cut-off conversing with Bill and spoke with John for his solution. It went from copper wires soldered onto the bottom (I have the original somewhere in storage) to the final design that he sells to this day that use the metal straps across the bottom. Hervey's unit was bigger and could hold more fuel so it caught my attention more. At this time Bill's sudden change in attitude left me with a bad impression, but things got worse years later.

As a way to try and get my car back on the road, I was interested in a carb conversion. So again I spoke with Bill, only this time here on DMCTalk trying to start fresh. Everything was going ok until it got to the point where I wanted to know the specifics for a carb conversion, and documentation on how to perform the conversion as well as how to tune the carb. I had two very good reasons for this. The first being that if there is a specific procedure for performing a conversion of this sort, it can easily be done by a user, but more importantly can be accepted by the community as a sort of "Standard procedure" where it can maintain values. The second big thing was that I don't have experience with carbs. I grew up around fuel injection and actually cut my teeth on K-Jetronic of all things. I understand how to tune & troubleshoot CIS & EFI, but carbs are a different story. Certainly I know *how* they function, but I've only ever owned a single car that had one, and never worked on the carb before I sold it. I am a big stickler for documentation when it comes to cars. I don't like the idea of needing to rely upon other people/mechanics and want to be independent. This also continued on to question Bill on alternative sources for manifolds and carburetors, and the blunt saying that this information should be out in the open for anyone to utilize.

Needless to say, Bill did not like this. He reverted back into the same person years before, only worse. He berated me for not being smart enough to know how to tune a carburetor, let alone install one and perform the entire conversion. Around this time as well Bill started in with some massive attacks against other members when he started making accusations against other people for supporting K-Jetronic when they dared to challenge him on his inaccurate statements about it. And it was the same M.O. from years ago where there would just be one strawman argument after another when you'd get him cornered on one point, and he'd change the subject entirely to avoid accountability. Then finally he changes things into personal attacks starting with people's pride in their cars and then against their intelligence. In the end when it's all said and done, Bill will ultimately revert to his persecution complex about how he helps soooooo many people and yet is soooooo unappreciated for his selflessness. Something that you, Josh, and starting to emulate to a "T".

Now I don't post to DMCToday as I am not a member, and choose not to be. But damn. If you google my name over there you can see where absolutely out of nowhere Bill will name drop and stir up some anger against me. I'm not alone in this either. Even David T. is on Bill's little list of people he despises, as are others. The goal though is always the same with Bill getting people to come over start up fights here on DMCTalk. They do it in groups, as demonstrated by this thread. Get two or more people to goad, then put out the flimsy excuse they have nothing to do with each other. Even though this keeps happening over and over again. When it does happen in a big enough blow-up like this one, there's usually even a thread over there with people egging each other on, laughing about the whole thing at the expense of others.

People are not always going to agree online. I get this, and understand it. When I started trying to source the specs for the Legend Twin Turbo engine for the passage sizes for the vacuum lines that run the Bias Boost control, I was denied the information. I wasn't happy about it, but it wasn't the first time I'd hit a brick wall. But as normal there were not lingering hard-feelings nor ongoing trolling. Most important of all though is the marque. The first iteration of the DeLorean community was maintained by the DOA, and the second iteration of it when it went online started on USENET and evolved here to these very message boards. All the while the goal was to spread as much information as possible, and keep it publicly accessible. Not all people are online, and many of the ones that are do not like this kind of conflict and will lurk more often than not. That's fine. Keep the information available for them too. I don't want to have numerous PMs with people to help them. I would rather post something in a thread or a collection of information where people can go to access it if they wish. When I offer up help, I do it as a way to pay back those who have helped me in order to foster a community of communication and friendliness. I don't do it in order to gain favoritism and debts such as Bill and others do.

As such when I help, that extends both to defending someone who I know is in fact quite knowledgeable when they and their reputation is attacked (when you attack someone's knowledge it extends to that person, and "snide" is also indeed a noun and a derogatory name), as well as when you pass out outright dangerous information to people. The danger of old tires is very well known and documented. And yes, when this keeps on happening that others are complaining, this is indeed damaging the community and the marque as a whole.

Now, if everyone wants to start over, and if something is disagreed upon, keep it in a friendly manner. I have no problems with this. There are absolutely certain people who do, which is why we keep ending up in these situations. As I've already said, if there is a problem from now on, I'm going to let the moderators have at it. Is this not something that can be agreed upon?

Supposedly, you had a beef with me, which I claimed was really about the friends that I keep in the community - namely, Mr. Bill R. You repeatedly denied my assertion, despite mentioning Bill's name more than mine in your responses.

And now, we get yet another diatribe that's essentially all about Bill.

Yeah - am I the only one here who's NOT living in bizzaro land :bang: :confused: :umm:

[DMCVegas]

Supposedly, you had a beef with me, which I claimed was really about the friends that I keep in the community - namely, Mr. Bill R. You repeatedly denied my assertion, despite mentioning Bill's name more than mine in your responses.

And now, we get yet another diatribe that's essentially all about Bill.

Yeah - am I the only one here who's NOT living in bizzaro land :bang: :confused: :umm:

As an explanation of what is going on, that was the purpose of the length. The length of my posts also has to serve a purpose for people like you who want to nit-pick one thing at a time. So I get it all knocked out at once.

Yes, I do have a beef with you. And once again we go around in this circle of having to re-explain things because you either don't want to understand and wish to continue to goad, or you just lack the basic comprehension: You are mimicking the same exact behavior over and over again. You and others like you come over here, post in arguments, and then go back to laugh about it over on your other site. The excuses used to avoid responsibility is first that you have no control over the other's posts. Then it's that you should be allowed to stay because you help others. Again, the same persecution complex that seems to spread amongst you via some emotional contagion that you all willingly participate in.

I don't know why, but you just seem to get-off on these fights.

[Ron]

Once again, you're snipe attacking other members I see.

And yet, somehow, I'm allegedly the bad guy here.... :confused: :dunno: :umm:How dare he snipe the troll!
All kinds of good fishing here, huh? :tongue:

[alexwolf1216]

NSFW


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbfzahtZsN8&authuser=0

Best. Post. Ever.

[NightFlyer]

As an explanation of what is going on, that was the purpose of the length. The length of my posts also has to serve a purpose for people like you who want to nit-pick one thing at a time. So I get it all knocked out at once.

Yes, I do have a beef with you. And once again we go around in this circle of having to re-explain things because you either don't want to understand and wish to continue to goad, or you just lack the basic comprehension: You are mimicking the same exact behavior over and over again. You and others like you come over here, post in arguments, and then go back to laugh about it over on your other site. The excuses used to avoid responsibility is first that you have no control over the other's posts. Then it's that you should be allowed to stay because you help others. Again, the same persecution complex that seems to spread amongst you via some emotional contagion that you all willingly participate in.

I don't know why, but you just seem to get-off on these fights.

I see - so now I'm personally/individually responsible for everything that someone else posts here...

Yeah..... OK, whatever you say chief.... :screwy: :banghead: :8ball: :mallet: :nutkick:

You really need to look in the mirror, as you're the one who seems to have a problem here and are guilty of everything that you've falsely and maliciously accused me of.

End of line.

[NightFlyer]

How dare he snipe the troll!
All kinds of good fishing here, huh? :tongue:

I honestly don't see how Michael was trolled anyone - he made a rational observational comment that was fully explained/supported :confused:

If anything, it's Kane who's trolling now. Apparently, he doesn't seem to understand the term 'context' and why it's so very important in written communications. Perhaps some remedial schooling would do him well, though that's only meant as a helpful suggestion and nothing more :smile:

[Ron]

I honestly don't see how Michael was trolled anyone - he made a rational observational comment that was fully explained/supported :confused:

If anything, it's Kane who's trolling now. Apparently, he doesn't seem to understand the term 'context' and why it's so very important in written communications. Perhaps some remedial schooling would do him well, though that's only meant as a helpful suggestion and nothing more :smile:I thought Michael's post was at least half tongue-in-cheek and my reply fitting, or a nibble if you wish??

BUT, painting members' desire not to have to ignore or drudge through posts that violate: rules reflecting the majority of the members wishes, common knowledge, common courtesy, and common sense in order to determine if they are interested in a thread, not to mention when they ARE interested in the thread, and reporting these violations as whining and being forced to read them is just one of the same ol' rhetorical spins from what should remain in the past. [Those people who can't live without the BS have a very nice place where it is tolerated/enjoyed -- They should go there and stay there -- If one can discipline themselves for both, it can be fun FOR ALL!]

RE: "Kane who's trolling." Forgive me, but "Johnny did it/first" is another. But as you might guess after reading the above, for once, I think maybe Johnny believed he had good basis...which I expressed my humble opinion about already, which fits even more now, so I will repeat it- Tongue-in-cheek, tit for tat, WTF (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbfzahtZsN8) !!!

ALL OF THIS IS THE SOS AND NONE OF IT IS WORTH THE DRAMA -- BE NICE -- CYA!

P.S. You SUCK, but not as much as you used to, nor as much as Bill Robertson.

[Kane]

You really need to look in the mirror, as you're the one who seems to have a problem here and are guilty of everything that you've falsely and maliciously accused me of.

I have a problem with you, also. Or can you not see that from so high on the soapbox? So about that you leaving the forum thing... that's still a good idea.

[NightFlyer]

P.S. You SUCK, but not as much as you used to, nor as much as Bill Robertson.

I resent that - I suck more than anyone on this or any other DeLorean forum, including Bill :biggrin:

[NightFlyer]

I have a problem with you, also. Or can you not see that from so high on the soapbox? So about that you leaving the forum thing... that's still a good idea.

You love me and you know it :wink:

[Michael]

Oh dear...not 1 but 2 faceless people whom you will probably never meet have a problem with you Josh, and they are not afraid to tell you about it on the internet.

How will you sleep tonight?

[NightFlyer]

Oh dear...not 1 but 2 faceless people whom you will probably never meet have a problem with you Josh, and they are not afraid to tell you about it on the internet.

How will you sleep tonight?

Obviously with a great sadness in my heart - in fact, it could be so bad that I might not be able to fall asleep at all.

Damn my assholishness - it's going to cause me even more insomnia than I already have.... :p