New Starter, Now No Starting

[Addy]

Hi Everyone,

I was experiencing behavior that led me to believe that the starter solenoid was going out. Turn key, nothing, then all the way off and try again and it spins up. This problem was starting to get progressively worse (one try, two tries, etc.). So I replaced the starter last night with the Eagle starter and tapped the resistor bypass wire into one of the red/white wires. I was continuing to have the same issue, so I took the starter back to Autozone and had them test it. It was fine. Put it back in last night, and it starts fine. Go put fuel in the car, and the problem is back. Today I performed the starter relay mod fix, but this didn't help. Replaced the battery, and still no dice. I can hear the relays clicking, but there's nothing going on with the starter.

Extra info: It appears that the PO has replaced the 2 circuit breakers in the relay panel, as they are both 40A units as opposed to the 30A units.

Help!

[Bitsyncmaster]

So I assume your starter makes no noise when it fails. You must have a bad connection either ground or battery power. Start looking at those connections at the battery and work your way back. The OEM red battery wire has a "wrapped" type terminal that tends to go bad.

[DMCMW Dave]

Check the battery ground AT THE FRAME and the braided jumper at the RH engine mount.

[djdogbone]

Could this be a simple ignition switch issue?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Could this be a simple ignition switch issue?

If you don't hear the relay click or the solenoid then yes you would need to get out the voltmeter.

[Addy]

The starter relay is clicking, I can physically feel it if I hold it while trying to start. Can't tell if the solenoid is doing anything.

I've been working on the ground points that are relative to the starter, and still no luck. What other options should I be looking at? Is there a neutral start switch on these cars that might be causing this?


If you don't hear the relay click or the solenoid then yes you would need to get out the voltmeter.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The starter relay is clicking, I can physically feel it if I hold it while trying to start. Can't tell if the solenoid is doing anything.

I've been working on the ground points that are relative to the starter, and still no luck. What other options should I be looking at? Is there a neutral start switch on these cars that might be causing this?

If you have an auto there is a neutral start switch but if that was your problem you would not hear the relay click.

Check at battery red wire on the starter end.

[Addy]

Voltage is 12.51 at battery and 12.50 at starter terminal.

[DMC5180]

Which starter terminal? The big one or the small one with the W/R wire when the Key is turned to start.

Post a picture of your connections at the starter. If you have test light or DVM do a back probe of the Bulkhead connector (White 7-WAY) with the doubled W/R wires while someone else turns the key to the start position. you can at least confirm the Start circuit is functioning. Just for grins remove and reinstall the BH connector you may not have good contact of the pins or a terminal is pushed back.

[Addy]

Here's the images of the connections at the starter:
2925929260

I wired up the relay outside of the relay panel, just to make sure that it wasn't pushing any of the terminals down when the relay was inserted. No change. Tackling bulkhead connector now.

[Addy]

Also, Dennis, the voltages are from the large terminal, coming from the battery. I grounded to the point that the braided strap is on.

[Addy]

I'm not sure if I'm testing the bulkhead connector wrong, or we found the issue.
- Disconnected plug from socket
- Positive probe into the red/white wire on plug, negative probe into corresponding pin on socket.
- Reads 0.00v
- Turn key to starting position, reads 0.04v and holds until key released.

I assume I should be getting 12v here?

[DMC5180]

I'm not sure if I'm testing the bulkhead connector wrong, or we found the issue.
- Disconnected plug from socket
- Positive probe into the red/white wire on plug, negative probe into corresponding pin on socket.
- Reads 0.00v
- Turn key to starting position, reads 0.04v and holds until key released.

I assume I should be getting 12v here?


Put positive probe in socket or back probe the W/R wire in the plug while connected, put the other DVM probe to a ground (engine etc) then turn the key to see if it reads 12V.

[Addy]

Getting nothing at that connector. I'm getting 11.58v at the relay off the switch when cranking. Nothing on the 12v out prong that goes to the solenoid. Replaced relay, no change.

If the PO had swapped the circuit breakers (19 & 20) when they were replaced, could that cause the issue, since now the relay is going to one of them?

[Addy]

Getting nothing at that connector. I'm getting 11.58v at the relay off the switch when cranking. Nothing on the 12v out prong that goes to the solenoid. Replaced relay, no change.

If the PO had swapped the circuit breakers (19 & 20) when they were replaced, could that cause the issue, since now the relay is going to one of them?

Yep, that fixed it.