Car got a little warm

[alexwolf1216]

So i finally got all of the suspension worked out so I decided to take the car to school tonight. Everything was fine, until I got to the campus. I put the car in park and noticed that it was a little warm, and the idle was high, around 1500. I shut off the car, and there was a pretty loud whine behind the AC panel, like a squeal. I restarted, and heard the fans coming on, but for very short bursts, less than a second. The temp went right above the middle white line before i shut it off.

I have recently installed the relay update kit from DPI, Dave's fan fail and RPM relay. What else am I missing?2984829849

[Bitsyncmaster]

Only noise I could think of "behind the AC panel" would be the fuel pump.

Test if your fans come on by switching the AC on (key to on but engine not running).

[alexwolf1216]

Turning on the AC got them going again, still super short bursts.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Turning on the AC got them going again, still super short bursts.

So the fans run a few seconds and the turn off for how long? Maybe the fan circuit breaker is faulty.

[AugustneverEnds]

First things first: Were you running the A/C?

The cooling fans coming on for short intervals could be the circuit breaker tripping. Was that replaced with the DPI kit? Also do your fans always come on when the A/C is engaged? Usually should

[alexwolf1216]

I was running AC. Its 100 degrees here.

I really dont know if I replaced the circuit breaker, but I dont think so. I can run out an time the bursts if I need.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The fan circuit breaker should be a 40 amp. and the blower is a 30 amp. Maybe you got them swapped.

[alexwolf1216]

I seem to remember the fans always running only short burts, I noticed when I was charging my AC, but its never gotten hot

[alexwolf1216]

Where is it located?

[Bitsyncmaster]

What you could do to get home is only run one fan and see if it stays cool. Just pull one fuse from the fan fail.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Now after some thought of the noise, Maybe one of the fans has seized up. That could make the breaker open but I would think the fuse in the fan fail would have popped.

[alexwolf1216]

ill walk out there and check if i lost a fuse

[alexwolf1216]

So neither fuse was blown and the fans came on, but the actual blower motor didn't until I actually started the car. Not sure if that's relevant or not but something I noticrd

[NightFlyer]

So i finally got all of the suspension worked out

Did you - or is the rear end still sitting lower than the front end?

If the rear is sitting lower than the front, and if the coolant level in the header bottle isn't topped off, it's quite possible that you sucked a bunch of air into the coolant system, which is now trapped in the radiator and/or heater core and/or thermostat housing/water pump. Air in the system can also cause inconsistent operation of the cooling fans' otterstat switch.

First thing is first - you need to check the level of coolant (after a sufficient cool down - 5-6 hours after you shut the engine down on a hot day, as coolant expands/contracts based on heat soak and temperature) in the header bottle. If low, then your suspension setup probably allowed for the infiltration of air into your system by directing the rest level of coolant in the header bottle towards the rear of the car, as opposed to being level or towards the front of the car as it otherwise would be on a car where the rear is either level with or slightly higher than the front of the car. The discharge line from the header bottle back into the cooling system is at the front of the bottle, thus if the natural rest level is biased towards the rear of the bottle because of the inclination of your suspension setup, and if the level of coolant in the bottle was/is at all low, you're going to end up with air getting into and messing up the cooling system.

Once you've determined the amount of coolant that was/still is in the header bottle, and if low, then top off or even over-fill, especially if you still have the funky suspension setup. Don't ever worry about over-filling the system, as it will naturally purge whatever coolant it doesn't want from the system (in the same regard, don't be surprised when coolant is purged from the overflow hose if you do overfill the system).

If you believe that your cooling system was infiltrated with air (based on finding a low coolant level in the header bottle), there are several ways to purge the collected air from the cooling system, which I can expand upon should the need arise.

Best luck :thumbup:

[alexwolf1216]

The suspension is fixed, both gaps are the same.. I drove 20 miles from the shop to school which is where this started. Would it only arise when I stopped?

[AugustneverEnds]

Here's a reference if you need it: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2975-Relays-and-Fuses

The 40amp breaker for the cooling fans has a brown/orange and black/orange wire. The 30amp breaker to the right has four brown wires attached to it.

[alexwolf1216]

Here's a reference if you need it: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2975-Relays-and-Fuses

The 40amp breaker for the cooling fans has a brown/orange and black/orange wire. The 30amp breaker to the right has four brown wires attached to it.

Yeah, those didnt come in the kit, so I didnt touch them.

[AugustneverEnds]

Did you - or is the rear end still sitting lower than the front end?

If the rear is sitting lower than the front, and if the coolant level in the header bottle isn't topped off, it's quite possible that you sucked a bunch of air into the coolant system, which is now trapped in the radiator and/or heater core and/or thermostat housing/water pump. Air in the system can also cause inconsistent operation of the cooling fans' otterstat switch.

First thing is first - you need to check the level of coolant (after a sufficient cool down - 5-6 hours after you shut the engine down) in the header bottle. If low, then your suspension setup probably allowed for the infiltration of air into your system by directing the rest level of coolant in the header bottle towards the rear of the car, as opposed to being level or towards the front of the car as it otherwise would be on a car where the rear is either level with or slightly higher than the front of the car. The discharge line from the header bottle back into the cooling system is at the front of the bottle, thus if the natural rest level is biased towards the rear of the bottle because of inclination of your suspension setup, and if the level was/is at all low, you're going to end up with air getting into and messing up the cooling system.

Once you've determined that amount of coolant in the header bottle, and if low, then top off or even over-fill, especially if your still the funky suspension setup. Don't ever worry about over-filling the system, as it will naturally purge whatever coolant it doesn't want from the system (in the same regard, don't be surprised when coolant is purged from the overflow hose if you do overfill the system).

If you believe that you have air in the system, there are several ways to purge the collected air from the cooling system, which I can expand upon should the need arise.

Best luck :thumbup:

+1 for a probable cooling system bleed. These cooling systems seem to find ways to defy the laws of physics sometimes :what_the:

[alexwolf1216]

Did you - or is the rear end still sitting lower than the front end?

If the rear is sitting lower than the front, and if the coolant level in the header bottle isn't topped off, it's quite possible that you sucked a bunch of air into the coolant system, which is now trapped in the radiator and/or heater core and/or thermostat housing/water pump. Air in the system can also cause inconsistent operation of the cooling fans' otterstat switch.

First thing is first - you need to check the level of coolant (after a sufficient cool down - 5-6 hours after you shut the engine down) in the header bottle. If low, then your suspension setup probably allowed for the infiltration of air into your system by directing the rest level of coolant in the header bottle towards the rear of the car, as opposed to being level or towards the front of the car as it otherwise would be on a car where the rear is either level with or slightly higher than the front of the car. The discharge line from the header bottle back into the cooling system is at the front of the bottle, thus if the natural rest level is biased towards the rear of the bottle because of the inclination of your suspension setup, and if the level of coolant in the bottle was/is at all low, you're going to end up with air getting into and messing up the cooling system.

Once you've determined that amount of coolant in the header bottle, and if low, then top off or even over-fill, especially if your still the funky suspension setup. Don't ever worry about over-filling the system, as it will naturally purge whatever coolant it doesn't want from the system (in the same regard, don't be surprised when coolant is purged from the overflow hose if you do overfill the system).

If you believe that you have air in the system, there are several ways to purge the collected air from the cooling system, which I can expand upon should the need arise.

Best luck :thumbup:

Josh, I read your bleeding method but I dont have a spare pump at all. Is there a way to do it without one?

[AugustneverEnds]

Yeah, those didnt come in the kit, so I didnt touch them.

You can get circuit breakers at any auto parts store so those can be changed out pretty quick if necessary

[DMCMW Dave]

Yeah, those didnt come in the kit, so I didnt touch them.

Replace them. The originals are always bad.

http://store.delorean.com/c-285-3-7-4-fuse-boxrelays.aspx

#22 and #23


29850

[alexwolf1216]

Can you fax me a set haha....boy I hope I can make it home!

[NightFlyer]

Josh, I read your bleeding method but I dont have a spare pump at all. Is there a way to do it without one?

Sorry, I was amending the sloppy/incomplete grammar in my first post - which is now (after several edits) finally good to go :)

Anyway, the pump is only used to fill the system in an air-free manner after a complete evacuation and back-flush. Even though doing so prevents having to further bleed/purge the radiator/heater core, I still do it as a matter of completeness.

Anyway, to bleed air from the radiator and heater core without any modifications/alterations/add-ons and without having to remove any hoses from the radiator (which if yours is a stock/OEM one like mine with the plastic side tanks, you really don't want to be doing all too often if you can avoid such), you simply top off the header bottle with coolant (you can over-fill it without issue - just be prepared for purging from the overflow if there's a hot ambient temp - have a catch container ready and positioned appropriately if you want to recover purged coolant as opposed to just discharging it onto the ground) jack the rear end about 3-4 feet into the air, start it up, and let the engine run up to temperature. As the temp gauge rises significantly above the second mark (or what Dave M likes to call 'normal' - which I wholly concur with), the fans should kick on and cycle. If they don't, it's because air is in the system and is preventing proper operation of the otterstat switch, thus you'll have to jump the otterstat to engage the fans or turn on the a/c to engage the fans and let them run until the temp dips ever so slightly below the 'normal' mark. Do this a few times, keeping on eye of engine temp and of how much if any coolant is being purged from the overflow hose (if a lot, then shut down before you'll exhaust the supply of excess coolant in the header bottle, as you don't want to introduce new air into the system) and then turn the engine off and check the level of coolant in the header bottle (be careful to depressurize the system first before fully unscrewing the header bottle cap when the system is hot, otherwise you could end up with a face full of boiling hot coolant). Add additional coolant as necessary to the header bottle and repeat. Keep repeating until the system won't take any additional coolant in. Any air in the system behind the water pump (ie radiator, heater core, lines, etc) should now be purged via the header bottle.

Lower the rear end. Overfill the header bottle again. Get a hose that will fit over the bleed valve/nipple on the thermostat housing and direct it either onto the ground or into a catch container if you want to recover purged coolant. Start the car and let it run up to temp. Immediately start opening and closing the thermostat's bleed valve/nipple in short bursts, allowing it to purge the air from the housing and water pump. Do this through a cycling of the coolant fans, which should be operating normally via the otterstat by now if the switch is still good and provided that the rest of the electrical system for them is OK and they themselves are in operable condition. Be mindful that you don't allow too much coolant to purge out via the bleed valve/nipple, as you don't want to now introduce new air back into the system via a low level in the header bottle. Close and tighten the bleed valve nipple after a couple cyclings of the fans. Kill the engine, remove your temporary purge hose, and top off the header bottle one final time.

Take for the car for a good 20 minute drive, being mindful of the temperature gauge and fan cycling.

Things should look good, unless you have other issues going on elsewhere.

Best luck :thumbup:

[NightFlyer]

Replace them. The originals are always bad.

http://store.delorean.com/c-285-3-7-4-fuse-boxrelays.aspx

#22 and #23


29850

Mine aren't - work perfectly.... :biggrin:

[DMCMW Dave]

Mine aren't - work perfectly.... :biggrin:

So what.

[NightFlyer]

So what.

:neener:

[alexwolf1216]

Uploading a video. Drive home was 31 mins in stop and go traffic . Started to get warm again right at 20 mins, got to highway speeds and it came down to normal. Pulled in the driveway, it got warm and idle was high again. I did notice the brake light flickered on dimly a bit.

[NightFlyer]

Uploading a video. Drive home was 31 mins in stop and go traffic . Started to get warm again right at 20 mins, got to highway speeds and it came down to normal. Pulled in the driveway, it got warm and idle was high again. I did notice the brake light flickered on dimly a bit.

Air in system preventing proper otterstat triggering of the fans is my best guess as to the cooling system problem. It's also possible that the breakers are bad, as others have suggested, but if they never showed an issue before, don't know why they'd all of a sudden start now for (especially if you confirmed that both fans are freely working normally when actually engaged)....

As for the brake light activation, two possibilities exist, assuming unaltered original wiring: 1) the float in the brake master cylinder reservoir is tripping the activation of the circuit, in which case you'd make sure that the hydraulic fluid (DOT 4) is topped off; and 2) the switch on the parking/emergency brake lever is completing the circuit and triggering the light on (the carpet surround/cover over the lever will sometimes prevent the handle from lowering enough to disengage the light switch, requiring you to jiggle it downward (with the release button depressed) until the handle is resting such that the light switch isn't being triggered. It's also possible that the switch is failing and/or is being triggered because of corrosion caused by prolonged moisture exposure in that area (common occurrence on many cars).

Best luck :thumbup:

[alexwolf1216]

Yall done with the oogling eyes? Lol....

Delorean fan issue: http://youtu.be/aW_MyH9Qcrc

[NightFlyer]

Did you visually confirm that both fans are spinning when they're being cycled on, or is it just one?

If you have a clamp meter that can measure amperage draw, you may want to put it on each fan's power wire to see how much juice each is drawing when they do engage.

[alexwolf1216]

Did you visually confirm that both fans are spinning when they're being cycled on, or is it just one?

If you have a clamp meter that can measure amperage draw, you may want to put it on each fan's power wire to see how much juice each is drawing when they do engage.

I have not, I couldnt see anything and with the front end lowered I didnt think I could get under there.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I have not, I couldnt see anything and with the front end lowered I didnt think I could get under there.

With my fan fail, it would flash the fan fail light if both fans were not drawing at least 2 amps each. That would also show you if a fuse had blown.

[AugustneverEnds]

I have not, I couldnt see anything and with the front end lowered I didnt think I could get under there.

You can see the fans from the trunk. You will have to get the spare tire out and remove the inspection cover.

http://store.delorean.com/c-306-8-2-1-plastic-mouldingsinfill-panels.aspx

#2 IIRC

Are you familiar with how to jump the otterstat wires? Jump them and see if both fans are working

[alexwolf1216]

You can see the fans from the trunk. You will have to get the spare tire out and remove the inspection cover.

http://store.delorean.com/c-306-8-2-1-plastic-mouldingsinfill-panels.aspx

#2 IIRC

Are you familiar with how to jump the otterstat wires? Jump them and see if both fans are working

I am not, but it cant be that hard. I will take out the stuffs this weekend.

[NightFlyer]

You can see the fans from the trunk. You will have to get the spare tire out and remove the inspection cover.

http://store.delorean.com/c-306-8-2-1-plastic-mouldingsinfill-panels.aspx

#2 IIRC

Are you familiar with how to jump the otterstat wires? Jump them and see if both fans are working

Not going to see much pulling the fuel pump access infill panel, other than the fuel pump, sender, fuel tank, fuel lines, and heater core cooling lines. :wink:

Perhaps you meant to say to pull infill panel #3, the brake master cylinder et al access. Although, by the time you pull and reinstall the infill panel you could have gotten a jack on the front end and raised it a foot or two to inspect that way, which is what I'd do.

I also like jumping the otterstat. If in jumping the otterstat, the fans don't come on and stay on, then you know you have an electrical problem upstream of the switch - most probably in the circuit breaks or the fan motor(s) themselves, but could also be compromised wiring which would need to be traced out.

[AugustneverEnds]

I am not, but it cant be that hard. I will take out the stuffs this weekend.

There are two wires that plug into the otterstat, black/green and black/orange. Unplug them and make a quick jumper wire (a short wire with a female terminal on each end) Plug the otterstat wires into your jumper wire and the fans should run continuously (you need to have the ignition in position 2 or fully running)

Hope you get your problem fixed soon

[AugustneverEnds]

Not going to see much pulling the fuel pump access infill panel, other than the fuel pump, sender, fuel tank, fuel lines, and heater core cooling lines. :wink:

Perhaps you meant to say to pull infill panel #3, the brake master cylinder et al access. Although, by the time you pull and reinstall the infill panel you could have gotten a jack on the front end and raised it a foot or two to inspect that way, which is what I'd do.

I also like jumping the otterstat. If in jumping the otterstat, the fans don't come on and stay on, then you know you have an electrical problem upstream of the switch - most probably in the circuit breaks or the fan motor(s) themselves, but could also be compromised wiring which would need to be traced out.

My bad, your right, #3

[alexwolf1216]

There are two wires that plug into the otterstat, black/green and black/orange. Unplug them and make a quick jumper wire (a short wire with a female terminal on each end) Plug the otterstat wires into your jumper wire and the fans should run continuously (you need to have the ignition in position 2 or fully running)

Hope you get your problem fixed soon

Specific gauge of wire? i think I have some 16/2 laying around

[AugustneverEnds]

Specific gauge of wire? i think I have some 16/2 laying around

Since you're only using this for a test almost anything will do

[alexwolf1216]

My bad, your right, #3

Ill just jack it up, floor jack is nice and fast.....glad I bought that crimper set now ha

[alexwolf1216]

Not going to see much pulling the fuel pump access infill panel, other than the fuel pump, sender, fuel tank, fuel lines, and heater core cooling lines. :wink:

Perhaps you meant to say to pull infill panel #3, the brake master cylinder et al access. Although, by the time you pull and reinstall the infill panel you could have gotten a jack on the front end and raised it a foot or two to inspect that way, which is what I'd do.

I also like jumping the otterstat. If in jumping the otterstat, the fans don't come on and stay on, then you know you have an electrical problem upstream of the switch - most probably in the circuit breaks or the fan motor(s) themselves, but could also be compromised wiring which would need to be traced out.

Would a bad voltage regulator cause this? It tested bad, and I saw my clock flickering last night as well as the dash lights (all led) dimming a bit, as well as the headlights.

[alexwolf1216]

Also guys, I sincerely want yo thank you. This is the first car I have ever worked on. I'm as green as green can be. If I had the money I would ship it off and have the work all done, but not likely lol.....so I'm learning with each problem. This is in case some of my questions are stupid

[NightFlyer]

Would a bad voltage regulator cause this? It tested bad, and I saw my clock flickering last night as well as the dash lights (all led) dimming a bit, as well as the headlights.

Didn't you have the alternator recently replaced?

What alternator are you currently running on your car?

Are you watching the voltage gauge on the dash? When you notice things flickering/dimming, is such reflected by a low voltage reading on the dash gauge?

Are there any other high draw electrical add-ons in your car - ie stereo with external amplifiers, custom lighting system, running your laptop off the cigar lighter electrical port, etc?

With both stock/OEM alternators, it's normal to notice a voltage dip as you engage high draw electrical components, and more-so if you're using several high-draw components at once - ie the worst possible condition is night when you have the running lights and headlights on, the stereo on, the A/C on, the HVAC blower motor on, the cooling fans on, etc.

That said, a bad regulator could be restricting the flow of power from the alternator, though I'd image that such would be casuing your battery to get very weak, which would cause harder starts and possibly no starts at all as battery cells start to die.

If the alternator/regulator is known to be bad, then you want to get it replaced ASAP. Also have the battery checked by your local favorite auto parts retailer - they'll test them for free for you. If the battery is good, trickle charge it full outside the car before reinstalling it, as that way you'll know that you'll be working from a full battery the next time you use the car.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Every owner should carry one or two of those jumpers in the glove box. You use them often for testing but in an emergency when something fails you can get the car home using a jumper.

[AugustneverEnds]

Ill just jack it up, floor jack is nice and fast.....glad I bought that crimper set now ha

I hear you, I've needed my crimpers, well let's just say on more than one occasion :shhh:

You can get a jack under the front of your car?!?! :hysterical: mine was lowered so much by the PO I could only dream about using a floor jack on the front

[alexwolf1216]

Oh hell i don't know

[NightFlyer]

Every owner should carry one or two of those jumpers in the glove box. You use them often for testing but in an emergency when something fails you can get the car home using a jumper.

+1

I have two very thick paper clips, the middle of which are wrapped in electrical tape, that I carry (though haven't had an emergency where I've had to use them yet, knock on wood)

[alexwolf1216]

Didn't you have the alternator recently replaced?

What alternator are you currently running on your car?

Are you watching the voltage gauge on the dash? When you notice things flickering/dimming, is such reflected by a low voltage reading on the dash gauge?

Are there any other high draw electrical add-ons in your car - ie stereo with external amplifiers, custom lighting system, running your laptop off the cigar lighter electrical port, etc?

With both stock/OEM alternators, it's normal to notice a voltage dip as you engage high draw electrical components, and more-so if you're using several high-draw components at once - ie the worst possible condition is night when you have the running lights and headlights on, the stereo on, the A/C on, the HVAC blower motor on, the cooling fans on, etc.

That said, a bad regulator could be restricting the flow of power from the alternator, though I'd image that such would be casuing your battery to get very weak, which would cause harder starts and possibly no starts at all as battery cells start to die.

If the alternator/regulator is known to be bad, then you want to get it replaced ASAP. Also have the battery checked by your local favorite auto parts retailer - they'll test them for free for you. If the battery is good, trickle charge it full outside the car before reinstalling it, as that way you'll know that you'll be working from a full battery the next time you use the car.

Sorry for the short replies earlier, was stuck in an awful 6 hour meeting. I have the stock motorola. Both battery and alternator tested OK, but the voltage reg was bad. Ordered a new alternator from DMCMW, which arrived today. I have been fighting a hard start, and the voltage stays low for a while after its been started.

I did a quick search for a trickle charger, but I dont really understand what to buy. I have a jumpbox for my VW, but I dont think it charges. Can you recommend me one on Amazon with Prime?

[DMCMW Dave]

Sorry for the short replies earlier, was stuck in an awful 6 hour meeting. I have the stock motorola. Both battery and alternator tested OK, but the voltage reg was bad. Ordered a new alternator from DMCMW, which arrived today. I have been fighting a hard start, and the voltage stays low for a while after its been started.

I did a quick search for a trickle charger, but I dont really understand what to buy. I have a jumpbox for my VW, but I dont think it charges. Can you recommend me one on Amazon with Prime?

Look up C-tech or Ctech charger. Expensive but worth it.

[alexwolf1216]

Update. Jumpered the otterstat and both fans come on

[NightFlyer]

Sorry for the short replies earlier, was stuck in an awful 6 hour meeting. I have the stock motorola. Both battery and alternator tested OK, but the voltage reg was bad. Ordered a new alternator from DMCMW, which arrived today. I have been fighting a hard start, and the voltage stays low for a while after its been started.

I did a quick search for a trickle charger, but I dont really understand what to buy. I have a jumpbox for my VW, but I dont think it charges. Can you recommend me one on Amazon with Prime?

Go with what Dave suggested, as I couldn't find any made in USA chargers on Amazon.

I'm actually kind of surprised that Dave thinks that the Ctech chargers are expensive (made in China). :confused:

I use an old (from the late '70's) Sears brand (made in USA) roll around charger. If I had to buy a new one today, I'd spend at least $300-$400 for a decent made in USA charger, which is probably way more than you were looking to spend.

[NightFlyer]

Update. Jumpered the otterstat and both fans come on

OK, so it sounds like the breakers and the fans themselves are good.

So either they weren't getting enough power with other loads on the car while it was running because of your bad regulator, or there's air in your cooling system interfering with the proper operation of the otterstat.

Replace the alternator and bleed the cooling system (at a minimum, or do a complete evacuation, backflush, and refill of the whole system if you don't know when the coolant was last changed).

Best luck :thumbup:

[alexwolf1216]

OK, so it sounds like the breakers and the fans themselves are good.

So either they weren't getting enough power with other loads on the car while it was running because of your bad regulator, or there's air in your cooling system interfering with the proper operation of the otterstat.

Replace the alternator and bleed the cooling system (at a minimum, or do a complete evacuation, backflush, and refill of the whole system if you don't know when the coolant was last changed).

Best luck :thumbup:

http://www.amazon.com/CTEK-800-Smart-Battery-Charger/dp/B002QUT8IC/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1407462483&sr=8-5&keywords=ctech+battery+charger

this one?

[NightFlyer]

http://www.amazon.com/CTEK-800-Smart-Battery-Charger/dp/B002QUT8IC/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1407462483&sr=8-5&keywords=ctech+battery+charger

this one?

Rated for 100 Ah (amp hours).

Group 34/78 batteries are usually rated with a reserve capacity (RC) of 120 Ah.

This one will work (but there's not any overhead):

http://www.amazon.com/CTEK-Multi-12-Volt-Battery-Charger/dp/B000FQBWCY/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1407464040&sr=1-1

This one would be better (as there's a little overhead):

http://www.amazon.com/CTEK-Multi-7002-Battery-Charger/dp/B000FRLO9Y/ref=pd_sbs_auto_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1M8XSSBWD3YA46ZRDMTD

Maybe Dave has a specific one in mind :dunno:

[AugustneverEnds]

We forgot to ask you a question Alex (if I may call you Alex): Is your otterstat pointing up or down? It should be facing downward. Also, do you know if the otterstat has ever been replaced? So far you can rule out the fans themselves, relays, and circuit breakers so maybe the otterstat is the problem

[alexwolf1216]

It's facing down. I had to crawl under the rear of the car to unplug it. I'm not sure if it's been replaced but I have a new one. I read it can be tricky to install.

[alexwolf1216]

How do we know the circuit breaker is good? And did you see what they were doing on the video? Why the heck would the idle jump up?

Yep.....Alex is good

[AugustneverEnds]

It's facing down. I had to crawl under the rear of the car to unplug it. I'm not sure if it's been replaced but I have a new one. I read it can be tricky to install.

Ok facing down is good. It's not too terrible to replace unless its stuck in the rubber seal. Usually you pull it out to replace so its no problem if you destroy the old one. You do need to try to be as quick as possible if you intend to swap it out with the cooling system full. It's a good idea to bleed the system of air after replacing the otterstat.

[AugustneverEnds]

How do we know the circuit breaker is good? And did you see what they were doing on the video? Why the heck would the idle jump up?

Yep.....Alex is good

When you jumpered the otterstat and the fans came on that ruled out the circuit breaker. Didn't see the video, lemme check that out

[alexwolf1216]

Yall done with the oogling eyes? Lol....<br />
<br />
Delorean fan issue: http://youtu.be/aW_MyH9Qcrc<br/>

[NightFlyer]

We're assuming that when you jumpered the otterstat, that the fans came on and ran smooth and continuously without interruption, because you didn't report otherwise.

If that's correct, then it rules out the circuit breakers, as we know that 1) the fans aren't drawing so much power so as to trip them on/off, and 2) that the breakers themselves aren't malfunctioning as you otherwise would have experienced the same on/off jumpiness as we saw in your video (unless the breakers are only failing intermittently and when you jumpered the otterstat they just so happened to want to behave that time for some reason).

So, again, it's either 1) air in cooling system preventing the proper operation of the otterstat, 2) the otterstat itself has failed and needs to be replaced, or 3) the regulator on the alternator wasn't providing enough power to run the fans continuously while also providing power to other components on the car (the fans are a very high drain/amperage draw).

If I were you, I'd 1) replace the alternator stat, and 2) bleed the cooling system. If after doing both these things you're still having problems, only then would I replace the otterstat with your new one.

Best luck :thumbup:

[Bitsyncmaster]

I would check that breaker to see if it is a 40 amp. It may be it is intermittent. You really don't need the breaker if you have fuses in the fan fail or fan fail jumpers.

[Jonathan]

If you know the alternator is bad and have a replacement, put that in first. Ensure the alternator belt is on properly when finished. Then bleed the cooling system as mentioned.

Needing a trickle charger isn't necessary unless you are fixing the symptom instead of the problem.

It amazes me how often we acknowledge a problem on our car, know that we need to fix or address it with a replacement, yet keep going with troubleshooting as if there is something else. There can be more than one separate problem of course, but there are many things on these cars which are very much interrelated. Not you inparticular Alex, it just seems we all do it to some extent for some reason. Easier to see others doing it than realize we're doing it ourselves.

Fix what you know doesn't work and then move forward.

Alternator. Bleed cooling system. Then next steps.

[alexwolf1216]

Righto, the plan is to do the alternator tonight. I will also drain the cooling system, since I have no idea how long its been. I dont have a pump, so I will likely use the tech bulletin method. Ill have to run and grab some antifreeze too. Havent had a chance to look up what to use, but I have some time this afternoon.

[alexwolf1216]

I should mention that I plan to put in the new otterstat while the system is drained. Im guessing thats the best time anyway.

[alexwolf1216]

Change the alternator they said.....itll be simple they said......yea right...

I got in and fought with the bolts and finally got it removed. It was covered in this nasty sticky substance, no clue what it was. 29979

I was planning to add the easy tensioner, so I got everything ready to go, and alas, the M7x1.00 20mm bolt that went through the stock tensioner was a little too short. Off to find a slightly longer one. Yea, 4 stores and noone had any. Finally hit the last Autozone and they had one dusty pack of M7x1.00 40mm. It fit perfectly!

Got home and installed the new alternator. There is a little wire that I had to cut, and crimp to the new one. WWEELLL.....evidently there is a little brown/white wire that connects to some other part that goes into the engine. I accidentally pulled that one out and crimped it to the alternator.....way to go dumbass! A final look through led me to the loose wire, so I had to cut and recrimp. It BARELY fit, but I got it back on.

I started the car and let it get to temp. It started right up, and I wanted to check the fans. They did come on, right when they were supposed to, and cooled it down to where it was supposed to as well. I figured while I waited I would replace my steering wheel. I screwed in the M7 rod, tightened everything down, and cranked away. Yay! Stripped both holes.....now I really have no clue how the heck to get this wheel off....

I was then going to drain and bleed the cooling system, so I got under the car and someone replaced the left engine block with some random star plug. I also looked at the otterstat, and realized I didnt order the seal. Think im going to call it for the night haha.....

[NightFlyer]

It was covered in this nasty sticky substance, no clue what it was.

Degraded/melted potting material from the regulator's internal PCB - not necessarily an indication of a failed regulator, but greatly increases the probability of such.


I figured while I waited I would replace my steering wheel. I screwed in the M7 rod, tightened everything down, and cranked away. Yay! Stripped both holes.....now I really have no clue how the heck to get this wheel off....

Dave M is a great resource on changing out the steering wheel - I'm sure he'll have some expert advice for you :thumbup:


I was then going to drain and bleed the cooling system, so I got under the car and someone replaced the left engine block with some random star plug.

That's what we in the community refer to as a DPO ('D'readed or 'D'amned 'P'revious 'O'wner) surprise :)


I also looked at the otterstat, and realized I didnt order the seal. Think im going to call it for the night haha.....

Ha - welcome to the wonderful world of classic/vintage/collector car ownership. It's an acquired taste, but can be a lot of fun once you get into it :biggrin:

[Bitsyncmaster]

My steering wheel and a few others I've pulled used M6 bolts to pull it. If that stripped out I drilled and re tapped to 5/16 bolts (I think that was the size) and had no problem with that larger bolt.

[AugustneverEnds]

Hey Alex that's fantastic you got the new alternator in and the car starts and runs and the fans are behaving!! :rock_on:

You might be green but you're doing a really great job already. Like Nightflyer said, once you get past the DPO-induced nonsense the fun factor grows exponentially. Keep up the good work!

[alexwolf1216]

I don't think you can, I replaced the entire alternator. I didn't look at the ac cycling, just turn it on and see if the clutch engages when the fans come on?

No clue what an idle micros wit h is but it idles at 750 when the temp is normal.

[DMCMW Dave]

I also looked at the otterstat, and realized I didnt order the seal. Think im going to call it for the night haha.....

http://store.delorean.com/p-6348-cooling-fan-switch-with-seal-otterstat.aspx

COOLING FAN SWITCH WITH SEAL (OTTERSTAT) 100816

???

[alexwolf1216]

http://store.delorean.com/p-6348-cooling-fan-switch-with-seal-otterstat.aspx

COOLING FAN SWITCH WITH SEAL (OTTERSTAT) 100816

???

I dont think this is one of your otterstats...its got a black rubber gasket around it.... maybe this is a seal?

29980

[DMC5180]

I dont think this is one of your otterstats...its got a black rubber gasket around it.... maybe this is a seal?

29980

Last time I got an Otterstat seal from DMCMW it was Black. That was a few years ago.

Remove the new seal from the otterstat and instert into the pipe port. Then insert the otterstat.

[DMCMW Dave]

I dont think this is one of your otterstats...its got a black rubber gasket around it.... maybe this is a seal?

29980

Yes that is the seal.

[NightFlyer]

Havent had a chance to look up what to use, but I have some time this afternoon.

Personal choice that you'll have to make for yourself.

I run Prestone Dexcool (the orange stuff) in my car, as the chemical composition of the coolant is a little nicer than the traditional ethyl glycol on the aluminum components of the engine and system. It's also a long life coolant, and so long as you flush and dry the system well before refilling (and don't introduce any contaminates or hard water into the system), can be run for a long while before needing to be changed again (recommended schedule is 6-8 years, however, I've had no problems doing 15+ years on Dexcool without a change).

As you like the pre-mixxed stuff:

http://prestone.com/sites/default/p/products/prestone_dex_cool_50_50_prediluted_extended_life_a ntifreeze_coolant.png

Others will have an opinion differing from mine.

As stated in my flush/refill procedure write-up, I also like to add a bottle of this to the system (I mix it with the raw coolant and distilled/deionized water in a 5 gal plastic bucket):

Note: If you're going to use a bottle of this during your refill, make sure that the bottle you purchase looks exactly like the one pictured, as opposed to a similar looking bottle that also contains stop leak. The label on the correct bottle simply reads: Prestone Radiator Complete Care.

http://prestone.com/sites/default/p/products/prestone_radiator_complete_care.png

[NightFlyer]

Why the heck would the idle jump up?

Are you still idling at 1,500RPM?

If so, is this all the time, or only when the A/C is turned on?

In the video, that you posted, was this with the A/C on or off?

[NightFlyer]

No clue what an idle microswitch is but it idles at 750 when the temp is normal.

Ah, OK - I see what you're saying - when the engine (coolant) temp is cold or normal (around 185F), the car idles at roughly 750RPM, but when engine temp creeps upwards (200+), the idle increases to 1,500RPM.

Is that correct?

If so, it could mean that your thermistor is bad and is engaging the idle ecu's throttle enrichment mode (even though it should only be engaging it with cold engine temps).

Sometimes a crudded up cooling will interfere with and wreak havoc with the various temperature sensors and switches.

Thus, do your coolant drain, flush, refill, and bleed first and see how everything is running then. :thumbup:

We'll proceed forward from there if things are still goofy afterwards

[alexwolf1216]

It only idled high with ac on and temp over 220.

I don't have this weird star plug to get the drivers drain....will the. Passenger drain accomplish enough?

[NightFlyer]

It only idled high with ac on and temp over 220.

I don't have this weird star plug to get the drivers drain....will the. Passenger drain accomplish enough?

That will be just fine :)

[alexwolf1216]

That will be just fine :)

I got a chance to take it out and diagnose it a little more, (not enough time to flush yet, going to the beach tomorrow)

Drove it up to Boerne, around 12 miles, outside temp of 101. Its virtually all highway, there is roughly 5-8 minutes of stop an go from my house to the highway, then all smooth sailing to Boerne. Never got hot, ran AC on 3 the entire way. As I entered town and slowed down (IDK how fast exactly, my speedo isnt working) 35~ MPH, it creeped to 220. I miraculously found a carshow and parked it there for a few hours.

On the drive home, it did the same thing. Cool all the way until the house, at which point I observed the fans a little more. Their speed is truly random, sometimes they try to spin up and dont, then it will run for a second, then 2, then back to on/off. I also noticed my oil pressure gauge was bouncing when I would come to a stop, almost as if it was synced with the transmission shifts. Never paid attention before, but it was doing it tonight.

Turned off the engine, then turned the key on one stop, the fans engaged, ran for 20 seconds ish, shut down and never came back on.

On a positive note, the car show was a HIT. there were crowds around mine, which was in the middle of some pretty cool rides...29989

[NightFlyer]

I got a chance to take it out and diagnose it a little more, (not enough time to flush yet, going to the beach tomorrow)

Drove it up to Boerne, around 12 miles, outside temp of 101. Its virtually all highway, there is roughly 5-8 minutes of stop an go from my house to the highway, then all smooth sailing to Boerne. Never got hot, ran AC on 3 the entire way. As I entered town and slowed down (IDK how fast exactly, my speedo isnt working) 35~ MPH, it creeped to 220. I miraculously found a carshow and parked it there for a few hours.

On the drive home, it did the same thing. Cool all the way until the house, at which point I observed the fans a little more. Their speed is truly random, sometimes they try to spin up and dont, then it will run for a second, then 2, then back to on/off. I also noticed my oil pressure gauge was bouncing when I would come to a stop, almost as if it was synced with the transmission shifts. Never paid attention before, but it was doing it tonight.

Turned off the engine, then turned the key on one stop, the fans engaged, ran for 20 seconds ish, shut down and never came back on.

On a positive note, the car show was a HIT. there were crowds around mine, which was in the middle of some pretty cool rides...29989

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10378-Car-got-a-little-warm&p=152807&viewfull=1#post152807

The more you describe, the more I'm with Dave M on his previous conjecture.

Here's the order in which I'd tackle this (you'd only move on to the next step if the previous one didn't take care of the problem):

1) assure that there's no trapped air in the cooling system by bleeding the system at a minimum (or in your specific case, the complete evacuation, backflush, blow out, change the otterstat, complete refill of the system, and bleed);

2) replace the breakers, as they're cheap - just to rule them out;

3) checking and cleaning the fan grounding point won't cost you or hurt anything (though nothing else that shares that grounding point appears to be giving you any problems, so it's probably OK) - it's located on a chassis bolt directly behind the driver's side front wheel;

4) if problems persist at this point, then I'd be at the conclusion that 1 or both of the fan motors may be going bad. A tip to prove this is to call for the fans to turn on with the mode switch and get under the front of the car with a ball peen hammer. Tap the motors on the side to jar loose any stuck brushes. Or, you can pull them and bench test them with a decent amperage 12V power source.

[alexwolf1216]

Are the fans a tough install?

[NightFlyer]

Are the fans a tough install?

Don't get ahead of yourself (you can waste a lot of money doing that) :wink:

They're not easy, but they're not overly difficult either...

http://www.delorean.eu/catalog/images/categorie/367.gif

[AugustneverEnds]

So sorry to hear about your continuing drama.... At least you found a show to cool off at and got to be a celebrity :lol:

Definitely drain, flush and purge the cooling system of air and change out the circuit breaker before committing to new fans (unless of course you REALLY want some sweet new lower amperage draw fans)

[Bitsyncmaster]

It sounds like you have two problems. Some air in the cooling system and something with the fans is bad. Have you just opened the air bleed at the thermostat? Just make sure your coolant tank is over half full and open that bleed until you get coolant coming out. Engine can be cold or hot but that coolant tank has to be filled so it's higher than that bleed point.

Fans running for a few seconds is a strange one. I suspect you have a bad fan and that is making the fan breaker open the circuit. You can try spinning your fans by hand to see if one feels like it is not turning free.

I have also seen some relay socket pins not have good tension. A good test which everyone should do is to get a male pin (auto stores should have them), crimp it onto a wire and use that as a tool to test all your relay pins. The test jumper everyone should carry would work as the same tool. I found my fan relay power pin had poor tension that way. Just stick that tool pin in each relay socket pin and feel the tension when you pull it out.

[alexwolf1216]

I'm going to drain the entire thing, install this new otterstat and stainless cooling bottle and go from there. It will likely be Tuesday or Wednesday cause I'm going to the beach!

Both fans seem to be spinning free. They run for full cycles at the beginning, just not after the car gets hot. Fun times! I guess this is my lesson on how to learn my car

[alexwolf1216]

Pulled the drain plug on the right side of the block, looks like there is a copper washer. I dont have any of those, can this be reused/purchased locally or should I get some on order?

[DMCMW Dave]

Pulled the drain plug on the right side of the block, looks like there is a copper washer. I dont have any of those, can this be reused/purchased locally or should I get some on order?

It is the same one used on the oil drain (as well as the three on the automatic trans). I believe it's 17mm. Not sure how common they are "locally" but they come from somewhere!

[NightFlyer]

Pulled the drain plug on the right side of the block, looks like there is a copper washer. I dont have any of those, can this be reused/purchased locally or should I get some on order?

It's a sealing/crush washer, thus technically, you're not supposed to reuse it, but rather replace with a new one. It's the same size as the one used on the oil pan drain plug.

That said, I reused mine twice now and haven't had an issue in over 12 years. YMMV.

Best luck :thumbup:

[alexwolf1216]

Ill prob just order a few as I plan to flush the transmission soon as well. I need a new AC belt due to stupidity anyway.

[alexwolf1216]

Well, that sucked like a mother.....!@#!$!@#....Here is what I did:

I removed the drain plug, removed the plastic coolant bottle, and the hoses as detailed in Nightflyers post. I replaced the two circuit breakers and the otterstat. So, I then filled the system via the new shiny stainless bottle, which doesnt seem to me that was the right place. I then tried to fill via the little hose from the coolant bottle, which is where Josh pumps his. I dont have a pump, but I realized that all I was accomplishing was dumping coolant all over my garage.

Did I hose myself by filling the bottle first? I managed to get around 1.5 gallons in the system, but who knows how much is all over my floor. Where the heck am I supposed to fill from? The fans did cycle when they were supposed to, and stay on, but I noticed that there was a voltage drop about 20 seconds in, sounded like they were engaging again, then the voltage returned to normal. I now wonder if I got the circuit breakers installed properly?

Also, I am seriously considering DMCNW bleeding system. This is such a PITA I dont ever want to do it again.......any thoughts??

I also think I am going to write a book about how everytime I do something, I jack it up and learn the hard way.

[DMC5180]

A tip with system bleeding that tends to get overlooked is that you need to pull the little Bleed hose from the Upper RH radiator nipple to let the trapped air out at that point. If you have a OEM plastic tank radiator this Nipple is very fragile and can break off. ( (the fix is a new radiator) You only need pull the hose back enough to hear the air hiss out followed by liquid. Quickly slip it back on and tighten the clamp.

[DMCMW Dave]

A tip with system bleeding that tends to get overlooked is that you need to pull the little Bleed hose from the Upper RH radiator nipple to let the trapped air out at that point. If you have a OEM plastic tank radiator this Nipple is very fragile and can break off. ( (the fix is a new radiator) You only need pull the hose back enough to hear the air hiss out followed by liquid. Quickly slip it back on and tighten the clamp.

Or just bleed it at the other end of that hose.

[alexwolf1216]

How about more basic....where do I fill it

[NightFlyer]

A tip with system bleeding that tends to get overlooked is that you need to pull the little Bleed hose from the Upper RH radiator nipple to let the trapped air out at that point. If you have a OEM plastic tank radiator this Nipple is very fragile and can break off. ( (the fix is a new radiator) You only need pull the hose back enough to hear the air hiss out followed by liquid. Quickly slip it back on and tighten the clamp.


Or just bleed it at the other end of that hose.

Or not touch the radiator bleed hose at all, and just jack the back end of the car up in the air, burring the front end into the ground. Let the system naturally gravity pull/purge any air that's trapped in the radiator. That's how I've been doing mine ever since owning the car, and my car has always run nice and cool - usually around the second mark (normal), and never more than 1/2 way between the second mark (normal) and the 220 mark.

[NightFlyer]

How about more basic....where do I fill it

Filling the system does indeed suck (no pun intended), which is why I started using whatever old electric pump that I had laying around to accomplish such task for me.

If manually filling, I'd start with the rear end in the air, and before reconnecting either the main feed or return pipes to their respective hoses, I'd fill both sides of the radiator via the pipes, and only then reconnect both hoses to their pipes. I'd then level out the car and proceed to fill the rest of the way via the header bottle (or at least as much as the system will take until the water pump starts cycling and the system starts getting purged and pressurized). Manually filling anything other than the radiator or the heater core (which really can't be easily done directly (unless you modified your hose layout), which is why I push all my new coolant through the system skim hose that connects to the header bottle) with the rear up in the air isn't the best of ideas and probably won't work well, because while such an angle helps to fill the downstream components, it's NOT conducive to get any coolant remotely close to the water pump. The pump likes/needs a nearby fluid presence in order to properly prime, which is why many recommend also filling via the two main pump hoses.

Once you get enough coolant evenly dispersed into the system to sufficiently prime the pump, then you can put the rear end back into the air to perform the bleed procedure :thumbup:

BTW - Another reason I like using an old/spare pump is that it's MUCH cleaner/neater :wink:

Best luck :biggrin:

[alexwolf1216]

Here is a video of what its doing now. The fans ran for a good long while.....and the clock is flickering.

I bled at the radiator, off the hardline until solid stream of green from both sides. Went to the back and bled at the engine from the bleed valve. Still was too warm, a TON of air came from the engine. Its too hot to remove the radiator cap right now.

Sorry for the annoying door buzz.
http://youtu.be/Yez18T6PA3Q

[DMC Fanatic]

Do the cooling fans eventually bring the temperature down or does it eventually reach the 220 mark? I just got through flushing and bleeding my cooling system yesterday and the temperature was about as high as yours until I figured out there was still an air pocket in the radiator. Once I re-bled the radiator the fans kicked on between the second hash mark and the 220 mark and brought it down to the second mark. Try re-bleeding the radiator once more and see what happens and obviously from the engine again. I had to do this a few times.

[alexwolf1216]

I had a large pocket in the engine, so I was scared to start it up again. Ill try in a few mins

[NightFlyer]

I bled at the radiator, off the hardline until solid stream of green from both sides.

D'oh!

Wasn't necessary - all you had to do was follow my procedure (slightly modified to include level filling after butt-up filling before going butt-up again to perform the bleed).

If you follow my procedure, you should NEVER have to touch the radiator bleed hose.

And not that it matters, as both types are fine, but why are you running the green stuff for when I personally recommended DexCool (the orange stuff) to you :confused:


Went to the back and bled at the engine from the bleed valve. Still was too warm, a TON of air came from the engine. Its too hot to remove the radiator cap right now.

You can always remove the header bottle cap unless the system is so hot that it's boiling - just make sure to depressurize the system BEFORE fully removing the cap, otherwise you'll end up with hot coolant puked all over the place and possibly on you. As I like to check my coolant level upon arriving to a car show, I've taken my cap off when the engine was hot many a times without incident. Just be careful, depressurize the system first, and only then fully remove the cap.

Otherwise, your bleed procedure is going to take you significantly longer than it otherwise would/should.

As for the video - what was the ambient air temp when the video was taken?

Personally, I don't like seeing my gauge ever go that high. Of what temperature range is the otterstat that DMCMW sent you? Also, do you know what temp thermostat you're running?

I like to see the gauge consistently pegged at the second mark (aka normal). If I'm in bumper to bumper stop and go traffic and it's a high ambient temp (90F+) day, then my car will run up to about half way between the second mark and the 220F mark, but never any higher, as the fans engage and bring the running temp back down to normal. That's what I like to see.

That said, there's variation in the temp sending units and dash gauge calibration, so it's hard to say for sure if your car is in fact running a little warm or if that's just normal for your car. Assuming that the gauge is calibrated accurately and that the sender unit is functioning accurately, then it's my opinion that you're still running a little hot.

I couldn't hear the fans kick on/off in the video because of the door buzzer - my ears aren't the best (after years of doing outdoor concert speaker staging).

If you're running normal temps, you should be able to bleed the system with the pressure cap off the header bottle - of course, you'll want to watch and make sure that you're not puking coolant from running abnormally high/hot temps and shut things down if you are, but when I bleed with the rear end up in the air, I never put the header bottle cap back on the tank until I'm done with my bleed procedure.

Just follow the procedure (and the slight modifications that I gave you) and you'll be ready to rock and roll in no time.

[alexwolf1216]

D'oh!

Wasn't necessary - all you had to do was follow my procedure (slightly modified to include level filling after butt-up filling before going butt-up again to perform the bleed).

If you follow my procedure, you should NEVER have to touch the radiator bleed hose.

And not that it matters, as both types are fine, but why are you running the green stuff for when I personally recommended DexCool (the orange stuff) to you :confused:



You can always remove the header bottle cap unless the system is so hot that it's boiling - just make sure to depressurize the system BEFORE fully removing the cap, otherwise you'll end up with hot coolant puked all over the place and possibly on you. As I like to check my coolant level upon arriving to a car show, I've taken my cap off when the engine was hot many a times without incident. Just be careful, depressurize the system first, and only then fully remove the cap.

Otherwise, your bleed procedure is going to take you significantly longer than it otherwise would/should.

As for the video - what was the ambient air temp when the video was taken?

Personally, I don't like seeing my gauge ever go that high. Of what temperature range is the otterstat that DMCMW sent you? Also, do you know what temp thermostat you're running?

I like to see the gauge consistently pegged at the second mark (aka normal). If I'm in bumper to bumper stop and go traffic and it's a high ambient temp (90F+) day, then my car will run up to about half way between the second mark and the 220F mark, but never any higher, as the fans engage and bring the running temp back down to normal. That's what I like to see.

That said, there's variation in the temp sending units and dash gauge calibration, so it's hard to say for sure if your car is in fact running a little warm or if that's just normal for your car. Assuming that the gauge is calibrated accurately and that the sender unit is functioning accurately, then it's my opinion that you're still running a little hot.

I couldn't hear the fans kick on/off in the video because of the door buzzer - my ears aren't the best (after years of doing outdoor concert speaker staging).

If you're running normal temps, you should be able to bleed the system with the pressure cap off the header bottle - of course, you'll want to watch and make sure that you're not puking coolant from running abnormally high/hot temps and shut things down if you are, but when I bleed with the rear end up in the air, I never put the header bottle cap back on the tank until I'm done with my bleed procedure.

Just follow the procedure (and the slight modifications that I gave you) and you'll be ready to rock and roll in no time.


Hey hey calm down! I had a couple gallons of green stuff, and just bought some more. I tried your method and jacked it up, so I finished it off using the recommendation of DMCMW on how to clear the radiator. I didnt use the bleed, but disconnected the small hose from the metal hardline. It gave me a chance to replace the super rusty clamp anyway.

In the video, the car was too hot, but I was showing the power draw, and the fan dip. The car usually runs at the second mark, and I had missed the bleed from the engine. The ambient was around 100, but again it was running hotter, After I bled the engine, a bunch of hot steam came out and the fans turned on when they were supposed to. I am still a little leary to drive the car, as traffic has been a bear lately and I am afraid it will heat on an incline again. I hope its bled properly, but the fan draw and clock flicker concern me now.

[Bitsyncmaster]

What I've found with all my cars after an empty coolant system is to run the engine until the temp gauge hits a little hot (thermostat opens), let it cool, bleed and keep repeating. It usually only takes two times to get the normal running temp.

[alexwolf1216]

Bled again, no air came out of the engine bleed. Ran the car with AC off, fans turned on a ran at the second mark, ran for two cycles. Turned on the AC, it got to 220. The fans still engaged but its like they couldnt keep up. It came down a bit when I turned on the heater instead of the AC, but I killed the engine at that point.

The fans seem to run for 30-45 seconds. Is that sound like a normal run time? The voltage is still dropping in the middle of the cycle, but it looks like both fans are engaging.

[DMCMW Dave]

The fans should run continuously if the water is hot. If the breaker is still tripping (with the new breaker) you probably have one fan that's failing and pulling very high current.

This may sound counterintuitive but unplug ONE of the fans right at the fan motor (or pull one of the fan fuses in the jumper). One fan will adequately cool the engine at idle. If it still trips, connect it back up and unhook the other one. If a single fan will run continuously and pull down the temp, you've probably found the problem.

Also - when the fan is running, is the air coming out the back hot? I've seen the occasional plugged radiator that just doesn't dump enough heat. But if that was the only problem the fans would not be cycling, so I'm still aiming toward a bad fan motor.

Also are the water pipes going in and out of the radiator hot (the left side should be hotter than the right!)?

[alexwolf1216]

AAAHHHH I just jacked up my car to look at the radiator, and I think the shop that installed my shocks damaged up my frame!!!!

300473004830049

Theyre upside down.....my bad

[alexwolf1216]

The fans should run continuously if the water is hot. If the breaker is still tripping (with the new breaker) you probably have one fan that's failing and pulling very high current.

This may sound counterintuitive but unplug ONE of the fans right at the fan motor (or pull one of the fan fuses in the jumper). One fan will adequately cool the engine at idle. If it still trips, connect it back up and unhook the other one. If a single fan will run continuously and pull down the temp, you've probably found the problem.

Also - when the fan is running, is the air coming out the back hot? I've seen the occasional plugged radiator that just doesn't dump enough heat. But if that was the only problem the fans would not be cycling, so I'm still aiming toward a bad fan motor.

Also are the water pipes going in and out of the radiator hot (the left side should be hotter than the right!)?

The circuit breaker pops loudly when the fans cut off. My superior deduction skills tell me that they are indeed tripping it. I will try the fuses tomorrow. Its tough to get under there with the lowering springs

[DMC5180]

It's not uncommon too the fans come on at the 220 mark. I've had two different otterstats in my car over my 20 year ownership. Both would turn the fans on at the 220 mark. I consider this to be normal for my cars temp gauge. 100 degree ambient is HOT. Plus the heat load from the condenser is also high. For the fans to run 35-45 seconds is not uncommon. I'm surprised it's not longer with all things considered. The real question is, what position is the temp needle when the fans turn off and what is the needle position when you Are cruising down the highway? The fans OFF should be higher than the cruising temp.

[alexwolf1216]

It alway ran and stayed at the first mark until my shock/spring install, even at 100. The fans turn on at the first mark, turn off right beneath. They then turn on higher and higher with each cycle. It definitely seems like it's running hotter since the work was done.

[DMC5180]

If you are tripping the breaker then you do probably have one bad fan motor. Definitely do the isolation test Dave suggested. I can confirm the engine will cool fine on one fan. I had my car for nearly two years before I discovered one of fans had fallen off the RH motor. The motor ran fine while the fan sat inside the shroud. All I needed was Retaining clip to fix it.

[DMCMW Dave]

It alway ran and stayed at the first mark until my shock/spring install, even at 100. The fans turn on at the first mark, turn off right beneath. They then turn on higher and higher with each cycle. It definitely seems like it's running hotter since the work was done.

That's an interesting coincidence. Are you sure both fans are turning? If they bent something and locked a fan blade that would explain a lot.

[NightFlyer]

Here's what I'd do - put the entire car in the air on at least 4 jack stands. Make sure that the shop didn't crush any of the cooling system pipes/hoses. Confirm that the driver's side pipe/hoses are hotter than the passenger side's pipes/hoses. Then visually confirm operation of the cooling fans. If you're tripping the breaker, then it's either a wiring problem or a fan problem of some sort. As Dave suggested, I wouldn't put it past the shop (sounds like a butcher shop IMHO) to have crushed something when they were doing the suspension work, which is now causing your cooling system problem.

Best luck :thumbup:

[alexwolf1216]

I will check tonight after work. I have an instant meat thermometer I can use on the pipes. I crawled under there and both fans are spinning, so it doesnt look like anything is broken on the fans themselves. I will get the car up on stands and check again.

[alexwolf1216]

So I pulled fuses one at a time. The drivers fan caused the voltage dip more than the passenger. It looked like the passenger was going to keep up but they both let it get over 220. Measured the metal pipe temp on drivers side and it read 130, passenger read 140. I lifted up the car but don't see any visible hose damage. What else do I check for?

[DMCMW Dave]

So I pulled fuses one at a time. The drivers fan caused the voltage dip more than the passenger. It looked like the passenger was going to keep up but they both let it get over 220. Measured the metal pipe temp on drivers side and it read 130, passenger read 140. I lifted up the car but don't see any visible hose damage. What else do I check for?

Sounds like coolant is not moving through the system. Measure the temp on the hose where it leaves the engine. It should read over 200, and still be 200 on the driver side of the radiator. It should not be higher on the outlet of the radiator (the right side). No way can water go through the radiator with fans running AND get warmer or stay the same!

I'm guessing your thermostat is stuck. The next thing would be to replace it (or just remove it as an experiment, but don't run the car that way forever).

[alexwolf1216]

Sounds like coolant is not moving through the system. Measure the temp on the hose where it leaves the engine. It should read over 200, and still be 200 on the driver side of the radiator. It should not be higher on the outlet of the radiator (the right side). No way can water go through the radiator with fans running AND get warmer or stay the same!

I'm guessing your thermostat is stuck. The next thing would be to replace it (or just remove it as an experiment, but don't run the car that way forever).

The hose should be over 200? Does it leave on the drivers side of the engine?'

Where is the thermostat?

[DMCMW Dave]

The hose should be over 200? Does it leave on the drivers side of the engine?'

Where is the thermostat?

The hose leaves the center rear of the engine toward the driver side. The thermostat is in that housing where the hose connect. The same housing where you have been hopefully bleeding the engine. If you haven't been bleeding the engine, it's full of air. Water pumps can't pump air, so nothing moves.

[alexwolf1216]

Yes, I have been bleeding the engine. Its dribbles out coolant, no real air there. I have not tried to bleed the radiator again, i jacked the back end of the car WAY up....

Ill go back through my receipts, but I thought we replaced the tstat while it was at your shop?

If I pull it out, it should run cool?

[DMCMW Dave]

Yes, I have been bleeding the engine. Its dribbles out coolant, no real air there. I have not tried to bleed the radiator again, i jacked the back end of the car WAY up....

Ill go back through my receipts, but I thought we replaced the tstat while it was at your shop?

If I pull it out, it should run cool?

I don't see it on the invoice. We did a hot test on the car and everything worked.

If you remove the thermostat and run without it, the car should run cool, in fact too cool (bad for gas mileage and other things) but it's a valid test.

Things that stop coolant flow - bad thermostat, plugged radiator (not likely), lots of air in the engine, bad water pump (impeller failure, not likely and will overheat VERY quickly).

If the radiator is full of air the hose going in should still get hot, but the radiator won't remove much heat and the car will get hot. If the engine is full if air the pump can't move it. If you are getting heat from the heater the engine is full of coolant.

[alexwolf1216]

I noticed that the ac didn't blow cool when it was heating up and the fans weren't blowing.

I'll try to bleed the radiator one more time, but it's so messy doing it from the little pipe

[alexwolf1216]

I assume if this is where the thermostat is, I will make a huge mess getting it out? So, I am supposed to remove it, put the hose back, rebleed the system, run the car and see if it stays cool finally? If it does, get a new tstat on order and call it a day?


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[AugustneverEnds]

Yep that's the thermostat. It's not that messy of a job. You probably can see for yourself what parts need to be unbolted to get at the 2 thermostat housing bolts. You can test your thermostat easily enough. Put it in to a pot of boiling water and see if it opens or not. Doesn't open you need a new one

[DMCMW Dave]

Be careful running the ac if the fans are not working properly. Head pressure goes way up and can pop a hose or the blow odd valve. If the compressor runs and the fans are not on. You still have electrical issues.

[alexwolf1216]

Be careful running the ac if the fans are not working properly. Head pressure goes way up and can pop a hose or the blow odd valve. If the compressor runs and the fans are not on. You still have electrical issues.

I guess thats a nightmare to diagnose? Where would one start?

[alexwolf1216]

I also am considering Toby's fans.....do I need the ones with the shroud? I am going to add his bleeder kit just to make sure about the air......

[alexwolf1216]

To me, it looks like the tubes to the intake manifold need to come off. Can I refuse the gaskets or should I replace them? The diagram also shows some O rings. Replace?

Part 49

http://store.delorean.com/c-334-1-4-1-air-induction-system.aspx

[AugustneverEnds]

To me, it looks like the tubes to the intake manifold need to come off. Can I refuse the gaskets or should I replace them? The diagram also shows some O rings. Replace?

Part 49

http://store.delorean.com/c-334-1-4-1-air-induction-system.aspx

You got it. Gaskets should be replaced, optimally but if they're not the original ones maybe you can get away with it this one time :shhh: Rings needs replacing if they are damaged, otherwise you should be fine

[alexwolf1216]

You got it. Gaskets should be replaced, optimally but if they're not the original ones maybe you can get away with it this one time :shhh: Rings needs replacing if they are damaged, otherwise you should be fine

Got it out. Looks pretty new, but the bolts/gaskets look like crap. I am heating up some water to test.

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[alexwolf1216]

30062

[DMC5180]

30062

Not sure what you showing here. You have a 79 C = (174.2 F) thermostat. Put the thermostat and your meat thermometer in a pot of water bring the the heat up slowly and observe where and IF the thermostat opens.

I did this test several years ago with my suspect OE thermostat and a NEW replacement. Watching both units at the same time. The OE thermostat began opening a little above it's spec and did so very slowly. It opened only half the amount of the new thermostat. The NEW thermostat opened at it's spec 91 C very quickly to FULL open. It seemed to have a fair quick reaction time.

[alexwolf1216]

Sorry that was for Dave. It's opening just fine so I'm going to test the fans some more

[AugustneverEnds]

A made in the Fatherland thermostat! You know a German thermostat wouldn't dare fail! :fancy:

[alexwolf1216]

Dave was so gracious to walk me through some tests today. I removed relays, built jumpers, took out the thermostat, tested on a hill. The car maintains perfect cooling at idle with no AC. After I turn on the AC, the breakers (recently replaced) trip between 5-6 minutes so the fans stop running. If I pull the fuse on one fan or the other, the car temperature starts to creep up a little at idle with AC on, but either fan stays on. I guess its time to replace those puppies! It also idles a little high with the AC on, right at 1000, then when i turn it off, the idle jumps to 1500 until I rev the engine, then it comes down to 750. Bizarre.

Kudos to Dave for wasting a Saturday helping me out

[DMC5180]

Your 1500 rpm issue is likely worn linkage. Bumping the gas pedal quickly usually is enough to get the IDLE Microswitch to trip. This is what controls the idle @ 775 +/- 25. You will need to shorten the linkage adjustment rod slightly, that connects too the throttle unit. This is a very common issue.

[alexwolf1216]

Your 1500 rpm issue is likely worn linkage. Bumping the gas pedal quickly usually is enough to get the IDLE Microswitch to trip. This is what controls the idle @ 775 +/- 25. You will need to shorten the linkage adjustment rod slightly, that connects too the throttle unit. This is a very common issue.

My entire throttle assembly is all gummy. If I manually pull it, I can feel the resistance and it doenst snap back into place. Can I clean this on the car or does it have to come off? Would it be bad to just douse it in brake cleaner?

[Bitsyncmaster]

My entire throttle assembly is all gummy. If I manually pull it, I can feel the resistance and it doenst snap back into place. Can I clean this on the car or does it have to come off? Would it be bad to just douse it in brake cleaner?

I had problems and greasing the spring fixed it.

[alexwolf1216]

I had problems and greasing the spring fixed it.

I have this large tub of wheel bearing grease, red stuff, can I use that?

[NightFlyer]

I have this large tub of wheel bearing grease, red stuff, can I use that?

Sure.

[alexwolf1216]

Sure.

I cant tell if there is sarcasm there? :nervous:

[Bitsyncmaster]

I cant tell if there is sarcasm there? :nervous:

Wheel bearing grease should be fine. If you were to drive in very cold weather you may want a lighter grease

[alexwolf1216]

Ha I'm in Texas. Cold is like 60 here