Isn't there supposed to be a cover for the battery?

[AdamKontras]

Since this is my first experience with a Delorean, everything has seemed bizarre to me. Accessing the battery behind the seat was bizarre and always struck me as dangerous, but I just accepted it...

...however the more I tinker with it, the more it seems that really important pieces are missing. The grey carpet behind the passenger seat that covers the hole for the battery? It actually TOUCHES the battery. There HAS to be some sort of cover for that hole that's missing, but somewhere along the way was taken off and not replaced. Does anyone know what the name of this piece is? I cannot seem to find it online.

[ccurzio]

There is indeed supposed to be a cover. Part #110117.

[AdamKontras]

http://store.delorean.com/p-6757-cover.aspx

How remarkably dangerous has it been driving with this carpet laying on an exposed terminal. I'm beside myself.

Anyway, thanks for the info - Delorean.com's search function oddly doesn't bring that up if you put "battery" before "cover" in the search.

[Jonathan]

Don't feel too bad. My DeLorean didn't come with one of those either when I got it in 2007. In fact, I think my "missing parts" list of things I've bought for the car that were just flat out missing is getting close to $1,500. And that includes a couple freebie items from other local owners. And that's just the missing ones, i.e. not in attendance, and not counting the worn down or broken parts. On the plus side of things, I have developed quite a keen eye for scanning photos of other cars and seeing what parts are missing on those cars too.

[AdamKontras]

Don't feel too bad. My DeLorean didn't come with one of those either when I got it in 2007. In fact, I think my "missing parts" list of things I've bought for the car that were just flat out missing is getting close to $1,500. And that includes a couple freebie items from other local owners. And that's just the missing ones, i.e. not in attendance, and not counting the worn down or broken parts. On the plus side of things, I have developed quite a keen eye for scanning photos of other cars and seeing what parts are missing on those cars too.

I am but a young padawan in this game, but I too am now scanning Deloreans pics with visions of random details that differ from mine. It annoys my wife when I point them out. ;)

[Jonathan]

I am but a young padawan in this game, but I too am now scanning Deloreans pics with visions of random details that differ from mine. It annoys my wife when I point them out. ;)

The worst part for me is looking back at the same initial photos I bought the car from and seeing things I would later learn were missing or broken on the car, but didn't know enough to see them at the time. Damn you hindsight!! lol

[AdamKontras]

The worst part for me is looking back at the same initial photos I bought the car from and seeing things I would later learn were missing or broken on the car, but didn't know enough to see them at the time. Damn you hindsight!! lol

So far I have been lucky with that. My seller was so anal, it's a wonder he even sold it. Every receipt, every old part he had replaced as well as the new parts he hadn't yet installed. He even made color diagrams of the wiring system, laminated them - made booklets on every tweak he did as well as tweaks he WANTED to do (all of which is kinda outdated since the internet has all that). A list of every part he included NOT installed. You Delorean guys are insane. LOL. Love ya for it though. It has made my introduction far easier.

...now of course to talk to the "misplacer" of this battery cover. Wish me luck.

[mluder]

It's not really dangerous at all. Nothing will happen with the terminal touching the carpet. It's not like it will burst into flames or something. About the only danger in not having a cover is the potential for the battery to off-gas (some can). Even then the cover only offers minimal protection. I've driven with out a cover off and on for various reasons with no bad effects.

[Dangermouse]

Ditto.

I've driven without mine for years. At one point I was constantly disconnecting the battery to work on the car and just set that cover on the garage shelf.

Unless your carpet is wet there shouldn't be any problem. It probably touches 12v at various other places under the dash etc, never mind all your props.

[AdamKontras]

The urge to "like" the last two posts is very irritating since there isn't the option.

:D

But thanks for the info. However, the battery on my camry actually came loose a bit, sparked and started a fire. Thankfully it stayed local to the area - had I had a carpet under the hood however, it would probably be another story. The battery on this Delorean is unsecured and tends to move a bit when drwving and With the amount of things running through that car (there's so many damn batteries in this car) I would feel safer if the carpet wasn't touching the terminals...

[NightFlyer]

How remarkably dangerous has it been driving with this carpet laying on an exposed terminal. I'm beside myself.

No danger is posed by this what-so-ever.

The only issue that could arise is acidic degradation of the carpet caused by flooded lead acid battery out-gassing, as was previously mentioned.

While only one battery box cover was produced, there were two different methods used in securing/fastening the cover to the plywood wall - VINs up to 4239 used three self-tapping phillips headed screws directly into the plywood, while VINs 4240 and up used three thumb/finger screws into spirol nuts that were pressed into the plywood.

[NightFlyer]

But thanks for the info. However, the battery on my camry actually came loose a bit, sparked and started a fire. Thankfully it stayed local to the area - had I had a carpet under the hood however, it would probably be another story. The battery on this Delorean is unsecured and tends to move a bit when drwving and With the amount of things running through that car (there's so many damn batteries in this car) I would feel safer if the carpet wasn't touching the terminals...

Under the hood of a regular car, there is a lot of electrically conductive material that a spark from the battery could potentially ground out on and cause bigger issues (although rare), but the same isn't true of the DeLorean's battery box, which is essentially a fiberglass and wood box, covered by some automotive grade carpet, all of which are electrically non-conductive.

The DeLorean's battery box is also very snug, with barely enough room for the battery itself, let alone any wiggle room, and given the weight of typical group size 34/78 battery of between 40-50 pounds, it shouldn't be moving around very much under normal driving conditions, even without being strapped down.

If you find it moving around excessively for some reason (aggressive driving), then you should of course strap it down.

[DMCMW Dave]

there were two different methods used in securing/fastening the cover to the plywood wall - VINs up to 4239 used three self-tapping phillips headed screws directly into the plywood, while VINs 4240 and up used three thumb/finger screws into spirol nuts that were pressed into the plywood.
?????????????????

[NightFlyer]

?????????????????

OK, so there were three different methods used, and I mixed up the big two a little in my previous post.

This should set the record straight.

My car uses three self tapping phillips head wood screws that go directly into the plywood - there are no nuts of any kind present in my plywood, nor does it appear that any were ever present and subsequently removed. I have no idea as to the VIN range of this method, but would guess that it's limited to early cars.

Somewhere along the line, this evolved into three phillips head machine screws into plastic spirol nuts that were pressed into the plywood. According to DMCH's website, this method was used up to VIN 4239, though we're not entirely sure as to when it started.

http://store.delorean.com/images/Product/medium/SP10232.jpg

http://store.delorean.com/images/Product/medium/sp10167.jpg

VINs 4240 and up used the thumb/finger screws into a metal t nut that was pressed into the plywood.

http://store.delorean.com/images/Product/medium/10597.JPG

http://store.delorean.com/images/Product/medium/SP10850.JPG

[Gfrank]

I've never had my cover in place as I've got a on/off switch on the battery, easier access to it. Hell I've never even used the battery strap in my one car lol

[Jonathan]

Josh, my car has those little ball and socket type things for the battery cover pretty similar to the ones that hold the front grille in place. My cover came from eBay so not that likely it exactly matched my VIN in terms of evolution (from the options you mentioned). I think there are three of those ball ended screws in the back of the cover and they more or less line up with the holes in the plywood. The plywood holes have the socket end which I think is just a metal clip folded in such a way to create a little indentation to pinch the ball end in. I don't firmly clip it in there most of the time as it just sits where it is, I fold the carpet down over it and put the seat back. I have a battery cut off in there too which I use enough to just leave the cover as I mentioned.

These are what I was trying to describe: http://store.delorean.com/p-9713-ball-stud.aspx

[Notifier]

My car uses three self tapping phillips head wood screws that go directly into the plywood - there are no nuts of any kind present in my plywood, nor does it appear that any were ever present and subsequently removed. I have no idea as to the VIN range of this method, but would guess that it's limited to early cars.

Somewhere along the line, this evolved into three phillips head machine screws into plastic spirol nuts that were pressed into the plywood. According to DMCH's website, this method was used up to VIN 4239, though we're not entirely sure as to when it started.

http://store.delorean.com/images/Product/medium/SP10232.jpg

http://store.delorean.com/images/Product/medium/sp10167.jpg

My car, early VIN 802, has the plastic spirol nuts. Although I am missing the original phillips screws. I have one screw that was there when I got the car but it's painted black and really doesn't secure the door, so doubt it was original.

[NightFlyer]

Josh, my car has those little ball and socket type things for the battery cover pretty similar to the ones that hold the front grille in place. My cover came from eBay so not that likely it exactly matched my VIN in terms of evolution (from the options you mentioned). I think there are three of those ball ended screws in the back of the cover and they more or less line up with the holes in the plywood. The plywood holes have the socket end which I think is just a metal clip folded in such a way to create a little indentation to pinch the ball end in. I don't firmly clip it in there most of the time as it just sits where it is, I fold the carpet down over it and put the seat back. I have a battery cut off in there too which I use enough to just leave the cover as I mentioned.

These are what I was trying to describe: http://store.delorean.com/p-9713-ball-stud.aspx

That's very interesting - thanks for sharing :thumbup:

[NightFlyer]

My car, early VIN 802, has the plastic spirol nuts. Although I am missing the original phillips screws. I have one screw that was there when I got the car but it's painted black and really doesn't secure the door, so doubt it was original.

I'm surprised that yours didn't use the wood screws straight into the plywood as my VIN 1798 does.

Again, very interesting and thanks for sharing :thumbup:

[BABIS]

Josh, my car has those little ball and socket type things for the battery cover pretty similar to the ones that hold the front grille in place. My cover came from eBay so not that likely it exactly matched my VIN in terms of evolution (from the options you mentioned). I think there are three of those ball ended screws in the back of the cover and they more or less line up with the holes in the plywood. The plywood holes have the socket end which I think is just a metal clip folded in such a way to create a little indentation to pinch the ball end in. I don't firmly clip it in there most of the time as it just sits where it is, I fold the carpet down over it and put the seat back. I have a battery cut off in there too which I use enough to just leave the cover as I mentioned.

These are what I was trying to describe: http://store.delorean.com/p-9713-ball-stud.aspx

mine too!

[NightFlyer]

The more I look into this, the more I'm convinced that there is no traceable uniformity/consistency from Dunmurry in regards to how the cover was affixed/fastened/secured to the plywood wall.

While the parts manual references only two methods with a VIN change over of 4240, as previously mentioned, I'm beginning to think that such isn't inclusive of all the various ways in which these covers were actually originally mounted.

I'll try to get some pics of mine with the wood screws posted later today.

Below are a couple of pics that I took of VIN 7092's (Nov '81 build, with less than 5,000 miles on the clock when I did my inspection/assessment of it last summer) battery cover. Note the empty holes in the plywood that probably contained some type of nut at some point, but were subsequently removed for some reason or another - my guess is that the nuts fell off with use (maybe even upon the first removal of the cover) and subsequent mounting solutions were employed by the QACs/dealerships that were never actually authorized or even known about by corporate/Dunmurry. I also can't explain the reason for the two pop rivets that appear to surround the left-hand hole in the plywood, as they prevented the cover from sitting flush against the plywood, thus I'm guessing that they're the remnants of some type of previous failed solution. Also note the pull strap that was riveted in the cover's center screw/fastener hole. And the two fasteners actually on the cover (look like some type of studs that were nutted to the plastic cover) aren't readily identifiable from my photos, but don't appear to be either of the two types mentioned in the parts manual - perhaps they're Jonathan's ball press/snap studs???

Anyone else ever look into this phenomena and attempt to track the various methods used, who performed each method (ie factory, QACs, dealerships, etc), and whether or not there's an identifiable VIN range for each solution utilized?

Seems that I never stop finding little differences and discrepancies between cars or the factory manuals (a few months ago, I had discovered a small variation in the air filter assembly/housing).

Yet another peculiarity about our cars - truly snowflakes.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=30232&d=1408802528

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=30231&d=1408802518

[Jonathan]

I'm going to mention this Josh, not because I doubt you wouldn't already know it, but because it may be the source of Adam's battery movement... in your photos there from your last post, the battery generally is meant to sit rotated 90 degrees from how you see it, right? Such that the terminals are on the side (driver's side that is). The fiberglass base it sits in is molded in such a way that it sits pretty well assuming you have the correct size and shape of battery with side terminals.

Like I said, I expect you are well aware of this after following all the Concours stuff for so long, but others that are new to our silly cars might not be. Add to that the (useless) battery strap and shear weight of the battery and it won't be too likely to move a great deal if you have it in there properly.

(I can imagine that with so many cars with new owners, if there was a battery drain problem during shipping or whatever, the transporter or tow truck drivers might have pulled the battery out of it's spot to charge it and not known how to put it back properly, or didn't care enough to put it back where it was. A new owner sees it sticking out slightly and might just try to push it back as is and not realize it needs to be rotated... which makes the terminals a PITA to reach, but that's another matter.)

[NightFlyer]

in your photos there from your last post, the battery generally is meant to sit rotated 90 degrees from how you see it, right?

Correct, the battery should be oriented vertically in relation to the plywood wall, and NOT horizontally as is depicted in the above photo. The dealer that was selling that car didn't install the battery properly - I'm not even sure that car had a properly sized battery (group size 34/78 is stock/OEM) in it, but it worked well enough to permit me to take the car on an extensive test drive. Stock/OEM batteries had side terminals only, and when oriented correctly in the battery box, the terminals would face towards the driver's side of the car, as you previously mentioned.

[Jonathan]

Stock/OEM batteries had side terminals only, and when oriented correctly in the battery box, the terminals would face towards the driver's side of the car, as you previously mentioned.

The more I think about it, it definitely sounds like Adam's battery was facing towards the front and thus prompted the thought of the terminals touching the carpet. If the battery has side terminals and is snugged back in there, they aren't really within range of getting touched by the carpet for the most part. Hopefully he'll chime in and let us know.

[AdamKontras]

30234

My battery (the one on the right) has a terminal on the top and it doesn't sit in as far as the other ones I've seen. While I was removing the wires it sparked (didn't know about the cut-off switch) which made me concerned when I later laid the carpet back down on top of the terminal.

If everyone seems to think this isn't a big deal, I guess I won't try to replace that cover... but everything in my being says that's not safe. Maybe I've just seen too many pictures of Delorean car fires, but I'm trying to be proactive.

[NightFlyer]

30234

My battery (the one on the right) has a terminal on the top and it doesn't sit in as far as the other ones I've seen. While I was removing the wires it sparked (didn't know about the cut-off switch) which made me concerned when I later laid the carpet back down on top of the terminal.

If everyone seems to think this isn't a big deal, I guess I won't try to replace that cover... but everything in my being says that's not safe. Maybe I've just seen too many pictures of Delorean car fires, but I'm trying to be proactive.

Your battery is what's referred to as a DT, or dual top - both top posts and side mounted terminals. A logical choice considering all the BTTF props/effects on your car, as it allows multiple connection points as opposed to trying to jam everything onto a single post/terminal. And it's oriented correctly in the battery box.

The only time it's going to spark is when you're removing or connecting wires from the posts/terminals, as the connecting wires are electrically conductive and the battery's stored energy will reach out to them in attempt to find a path way to ground. It's possible that it could spark if the connections ever become lose and vibrated on the posts/terminals, although if that occurred, you wouldn't have a running car or a full battery for very long. Even then, the sparks probably wouldn't be enough to actually ignite any of the surrounding materials - carpet, plywood, fiberglass, etc. That's not to say that it couldn't happen, as it very well could - only that the odds of such a problem developing are about equivalent to your winning a multistate lottery jackpot.

That said, your car isn't stock/OEM, and your electrical system experiences A LOT more electrical draw/load due to all the BTTF crap on it. Thus, I don't blame you for being somewhat paranoid about the situation and would probably seek out and install a cover myself if I were in your shoes, if for nothing else than some added insurance against the extreme odds from occurring.

Not sure exactly what type of battery you have there, but you may want to look into running an AGM or gell cell if you're not already running one, as they tend to outgas significantly less than a typical flooded lead acid does (even those of the 'fully sealed' variety). Given your cars' extensive added electrical connections and wiring, I'd again see this as added insurance against future electrical problems instigated by acidic battery outgassing causing corrosion/deterioration of said electrical connections and wiring.

[mluder]

Josh, my car has those little ball and socket type things for the battery cover pretty similar to the ones that hold the front grille in place. My cover came from eBay so not that likely it exactly matched my VIN in terms of evolution (from the options you mentioned). I think there are three of those ball ended screws in the back of the cover and they more or less line up with the holes in the plywood. The plywood holes have the socket end which I think is just a metal clip folded in such a way to create a little indentation to pinch the ball end in. I don't firmly clip it in there most of the time as it just sits where it is, I fold the carpet down over it and put the seat back. I have a battery cut off in there too which I use enough to just leave the cover as I mentioned.

These are what I was trying to describe: http://store.delorean.com/p-9713-ball-stud.aspx

Howdy...

My car - 4456 - also has the ball and socket on the battery cover.

[mluder]

I also can't explain the reason for the two pop rivets that appear to surround the left-hand hole in the plywood, as they prevented the cover from sitting flush against the plywood, thus I'm guessing that they're the remnants of some type of previous failed solution. Also note the pull strap that was riveted in the cover's center screw/fastener hole. And the two fasteners actually on the cover (look like some type of studs that were nutted to the plastic cover) aren't readily identifiable from my photos, but don't appear to be either of the two types mentioned in the parts manual - perhaps they're Jonathan's ball press/snap studs???

The two pop rivets you note are fore the aforementioned sockets that accept the ball studs you see on the cover. My car has two of them, one on each corner.

On a side note, this is the first time I've see n the pull strap on the cover. Early on in the ownership of my car I discovered a piece of pleather in among the spare parts the previous owner turned over. I had no idea what it was so I hung on to it. Now I know - it's that strap. Makes sense because the cover can be difficult to remove when popped in place.

What still remains is the origination of this method of attachment. Was it factory or QAC driven?

[DMCMW Dave]

Interesting discussion. I've never really paid attention to which are which, but my personal guess is that most of the cars regardless of VIN have the ball and snap socket setup. I've seen the pull strap missing (often the ball sockets are so tight the strap will pull off, for this reason I never use the strap!).

I've seen a few (very few) cars with the wood screw fix and always wrote it off as a DPO thing. I'll have to keep a closer look going forward just out of curiosity.

The other thing I'd mention is that most cars come in with the cover just laying there not secured in any way, "because easy battery access" . . .

[refugeefromcalif]

Howdy...

My car - 4456 - also has the ball and socket on the battery cover.

6599 also has the ball and socket.
With only my car as a reference, I didn't realize there were variations.

George

[NightFlyer]

The two pop rivets you note are fore the aforementioned sockets that accept the ball studs you see on the cover. My car has two of them, one on each corner.

That's what I was thinking about the pop rivets in the plywood, but wasn't sure. Thanks for confirming. I'm certain that the right hand side mounting hole had them as well - I just didn't have the carpet lifted up enough when I snapped the photo to actually see them, but they were probably there.


What still remains is the origination of this method of attachment. Was it factory or QAC driven?

That's the big question here....

The parts manual shows/lists the thumb/finger screws into metal t nuts pressed into the plywood as being used on VINs 4240 and up. As your VIN is extremely close to the alleged change over, and yet doesn't have this method of attachment, I'm now doubting the accuracy/validity of the parts manual on this issue.

The ball/socket method may very well have been the factory method that was changed over at VIN 4240. It could have been a last minute decision vs using the thumb/finger screws, and the people putting together the parts manual were just never informed about such last minute change before publishing the manual.

It's also possible that it was a QAC implemented change, as I could very well see every car's battery being charged by the QACs before being sent to the dealerships, and if the pressed in nuts weren't secured all that well to the plywood, I could see them easily falling out upon the first time that the battery compartment/box was accessed outside the Dunmurry factory. As replacement of a pressed in nut would be timely/costly (as you'd have to rehab the plywood well enough so that it wouldn't just fall out again), the ball/socket method was a much easier/simpler/cheaper retrofit.

Not sure if this was ever discussed/debated/verified by the Concours committee or not, but the Concours manual doesn't specify any type of attachment method or VIN range for such, so either it was just overlooked by the committee (as I've been told that they're not really all that concerned about actual parts originality, but rather that a car contain the "correct part" - whatever that's supposed to mean), OR they knew that there are a lot of variations of the original method, with no real record of how to confirm exactly what each car should appropriately have.

The method used on my car, of self tapping phillips headed wood screws straight into the raw plywood, isn't mentioned in any of the parts literature, but then again, neither is the ball stud / socket method, despite it appearing to be quite popular / widespread.

I find crap like this interesting, even though most owners could probably care less. Of course, it would be even better if there were an interesting story behind the issue, such as JZD bounced a check with the supplier of the thumb/finger screws and/or metal t nuts, thus that's why it was changed to the ball stud / socket method, or some other such anecdote.

Maybe someone with some knowledge about this issue will chime in - though, the admins/mods should really split the discussion into a separate thread.

[jawn101]

Interesting discussion. I've never really paid attention to which are which, but my personal guess is that most of the cars regardless of VIN have the ball and snap socket setup. I've seen the pull strap missing (often the ball sockets are so tight the strap will pull off, for this reason I never use the strap!).

I've seen a few (very few) cars with the wood screw fix and always wrote it off as a DPO thing. I'll have to keep a closer look going forward just out of curiosity.

The other thing I'd mention is that most cars come in with the cover just laying there not secured in any way, "because easy battery access" . . .

Dave - my exceptional snowflake (remember our email recently about the remarkable melange of early and late characteristics it has) uses rivnuts in the wood and screws with no pull strap. The mystery continues :)

[NightFlyer]

Dave - my exceptional snowflake (remember our email recently about the remarkable melange of early and late characteristics it has) uses rivnuts in the wood and screws with no pull strap. The mystery continues :)

Are you sure they're rivnuts and not a plastic spirol nut or a metal t nut, as I previously pictured?

If they're truly rivnuts, then that would put the total methods used list currently at 5:

1) self-tapping phillips headed wood screws into the raw plywood;

2) phillips headed machine screws into plastic spirol nuts pressed into the plywood;

3) phillips headed machine screws into rivnuts mounted into the plywood;

4) thumb/finger fine thread screws into metal t nuts pressed into the plywood; and

5) nutted ball studs into pop riveted snap sockets in the plywood.

Only methods 2 and 4 are mentioned in the parts manual. Though, I'm not personally aware of a single car that is utilizing method 4, even though the parts manual states that the vast majority of cars should have this method installed.

@Dave can you confirm that DMCH actually has NOS inventory of the thumb/finger screws, P/N SP10597, or if it's a misprint and really should be referring to the ball studs?

BTW - here's the page from the online parts manual that I'm constantly referencing in my posts on this issue:

http://store.delorean.com/c-339-3-1-0-battery.aspx

[DMCMW Dave]

@Dave can you confirm that DMCH actually has NOS inventory of the thumb/finger screws, P/N SP10597, or if it's a misprint and really should be referring to the ball studs?

BTW - here's the page from the online parts manual that I'm constantly referencing in my posts on this issue:

http://store.delorean.com/c-339-3-1-0-battery.aspx

Yes - lots. But I've never seen one in a car. Probably a running change where they bought the parts but the never hit the assembly line. Pretty weird.

The stud that is commonly used appears to be the same one that holds the front upper grill in place. This one smells like an assembly-line or QAC implementation. Keep in mind that when the going gets tough, the first thing companies get sloppy with is service documentation (coming from a former technical writer - me!)

Reference:

http://store.delorean.com/p-9713-ball-stud.aspx

Item 10 on page http://store.delorean.com/c-313-8-5-0-front-bumperfasciagrille.aspx

[NightFlyer]

Yes - lots. But I've never seen one in a car. Probably a running change where they bought the parts but the never hit the assembly line. Pretty weird.

The stud that is commonly used appears to be the same one that holds the front upper grill in place. This one smells like an assembly-line or QAC implementation. Keep in mind that when the going gets tough, the first thing companies get sloppy with is service documentation (coming from a former technical writer - me!)

Reference:

http://store.delorean.com/p-9713-ball-stud.aspx

Item 10 on page http://store.delorean.com/c-313-8-5-0-front-bumperfasciagrille.aspx

Makes sense :thumbup:

I'm surprised that this hasn't been discussed before - am I really that nerdy of owner? :biggrin:

[DMCMW Dave]

Makes sense :thumbup:

I'm surprised that this hasn't been discussed before - am I really that nerdy of owner? :biggrin:

See my prior comment - 90% of the cars just have the cover laying there over the battery. So it's kind of a don't care item to most people.

Yes.

[NightFlyer]

Yes.

Thanks Dave - knew I could count on you :biggrin: